Luis Gonzalez: cheat?

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

Slandering a players career because one "feels" like he may have used or believe he used or thinks he may have used is pretty low brow to me.

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We can't all be on the moral high ground you are on.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

What helped Lebron, Jerry Rice, Hank Aaron maintain solid output in their later years?

steroids?

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

I already brought up randy Johnson. Prime example. Greatest seasons post age 35. Just like bonds. But i never hear anyone bring up his name.

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He was a pitcher in 2000. Every single pitcher in 2000 probably took Winstrol/Stanozolol at some point or another, and most of them you wouldn't even know based on appearance etc. Everyone wasn't on the cream and transforming into Bonds, lots of it was just aiding in recovery or gaining a little velocity on fastball. I pitched in 2000 i took Winstrol, every single person I know that pitched in that era also took it.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

No I am not "positing" PEDs does not affect pitchers. The opposite. You didn't pick up on that huh?

A better comp for Gonzalez would be a position player, someone who actually hits homeruns.

YOU said "well he is a pitcher, so there is that"

To me, that reads that you discount his example because he is a pitcher. No?

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[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

It is worth as much as yours.

Correct, but the difference is that you are making a claim of guilt. I am not. I am simply saying that unless there is hard evidence or an admission of guilt, i am not accusing anyone.

You sir, are slandering careers due to your own personal feelings.

Big difference

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[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

We can't all be on the moral high ground you are on.

Apparently you cannot...

I dont think it is all that high a standard of morality to not accuse someone of something when you have no proof, only a ¨feeling¨


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[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

He was a pitcher in 2000. Every single pitcher in 2000 probably took Winstrol/Stanozolol at some point or another, and most of them you wouldn't even know based on appearance etc. Everyone wasn't on the cream and transforming into Bonds, lots of it was just aiding in recovery or gaining a little velocity on fastball. I pitched in 2000 i took Winstrol, every single person I know that pitched in that era also took it.

You MAY be correct. However, that is nothing but anecdotal evidence. Not good enough to slander careers.

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[tkraft24]

According to this card I have, his power was pure...

[StateEx]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

You know being juiced and having an anomaly year don't have to be mutually exclusive, right? If anything, it'd just make a possible anomalous performance be even more anomalous.

Think you may be underthinking this one.


- 2001.

-

- The Clear.


Pick 3.


(you're never going to obtain that level of bulk/cut/vascularity being natty. Not unless you're IBFF comp. level or spend 12 hours a day in the gym)

This sums it up perfectly. Reminds me of the Onion article re Bonds:

https://theonion.com/barry-bonds-too...ve-1819568339/

“I originally heard that Barry Bonds was on steroids during a Giants game in 2001, when my buddy Phil, who was on the couch next to me, said, ’Dude, that Barry Bonds guy is definitely on steroids,’” said Chicago resident Mitch Oliveras. “After 10 seconds of careful observation, and performing a brief comparison of Bonds’ present neck width with that on Phil’s old 1986 Bonds rookie card, I was convinced.”

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

Correct, but the difference is that you are making a claim of guilt. I am not. I am simply saying that unless there is hard evidence or an admission of guilt, i am not accusing anyone.

You sir, are slandering careers due to your own personal feelings.

Big difference

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Me and half the people in this thread. I think Luis Gonzalez will be fine.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by StateEx

This sums it up perfectly. Reminds me of the Onion article re Bonds:

https://theonion.com/barry-bonds-too...ve-1819568339/

“I originally heard that Barry Bonds was on steroids during a Giants game in 2001, when my buddy Phil, who was on the couch next to me, said, ’Dude, that Barry Bonds guy is definitely on steroids,’” said Chicago resident Mitch Oliveras. “After 10 seconds of careful observation, and performing a brief comparison of Bonds’ present neck width with that on Phil’s old 1986 Bonds rookie card, I was convinced.”

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

YOU said "well he is a pitcher, so there is that"

To me, that reads that you discount his example because he is a pitcher. No?

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Did you not read the part about Johnson being a teammate of Gonzalez or the mention of Clemens who has been accused of using steroids and had late career success?

This may blow your mind now, but stay with me, I was raising the possibility Johnson may have used steroids. Another career slandered.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

steroids?

Obviously.

Anyone saying otherwise is plain wrong. Wronger than anyone who has been wrong in the history of wrongness.

Just my opinion.

[BigL7370]

"I'm not denying I went to GNC and all that stuff," said Johnson, who once endorsed Champion Nutrition, a company also linked to Mark McGwire and androstenedione. "I took a lot of different things that, you know, maybe at that time, maybe early enough if I would've been tested, who knows? I could have been taking stuff had they tested me back then. Maybe I would have tested (positive for a banned supplement). I don't know."

[awz50]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Case closed.

Always believe the back of a baseball card

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Me and half the people in this thread. I think Luis Gonzalez will be fine.

you do realize what a juvenile argument you are using, right?


¨come on mom, everyone else is doing it...¨

good grief

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Did you not read the part about Johnson being a teammate of Gonzalez or the mention of Clemens who has been accused of using steroids and had late career success?

This may blow your mind now, but stay with me, I was raising the possibility Johnson may have used steroids. Another career slandered.

again, nothing but anecdotal ¨feelings¨

totally meaningless.

grownups do not slander/libel others based on ¨feelings¨

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

you do realize what a juvenile argument you are using, right?


¨come on mom, everyone else is doing it...¨

good grief

I'm not making an argument; I'm merely pointing out that others on this thread think Luis Gonzalez used steroids. We are all guilty of slander. Unforgivable.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

I'm not making an argument; I'm merely pointing out that others on this thread think Luis Gonzalez used steroids. We are all guilty of slander. Unforgivable.

again, ¨mom, everyone else is doing it¨

that stuff doesnt fly for grownups.


remember, back in the 70s, lots of people followed a guy named jim jones too.

the safety in numbers thing is not always the right way.

[TeeBee12]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

There are multiple exhibits to present to the BO jury if needed.

They want the boy. Gonzalez w/ guns. And bandanas.

You’re pulling’em over for “doing 55 in a 54”.

Bananas.

Even if the driving glove DID fit.

Not guilty.

Still legit.

Stop blowin smoke,

This aint Havana.

Puff the L, we’ll go listen to my homeboy…..

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

again, ¨mom, everyone else is doing it¨

that stuff doesnt fly for grownups.


remember, back in the 70s, lots of people followed a guy named jim jones too.

the safety in numbers thing is not always the right way.

I feel like Norm MacDonald apologizing on The View at this point.

[zworykin]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

I'm not making an argument; I'm merely pointing out that others on this thread think Luis Gonzalez used steroids. We are all guilty of slander. Unforgivable.

"I'm not making accusations, I'm just asking questions" is some truly cowardly stuff. Everyone knows what you're doing. Just own it.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

I feel like Norm MacDonald apologizing on The View at this point.

this is the kind of response someone who has lost an argument makes.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by zworykin

"I'm not making accusations, I'm just asking questions" is some truly cowardly stuff. Everyone knows what you're doing. Just own it.

Have you read this thread? I have said repeatedly I think Luis Gonzalez did steroids. At this point it is a joke.

The BO sanctity police are out in full force today


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[JMStang]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Which part? Every player in this post cited as a rebuke had a 40-homer season (and often multiple) in their 20s. Gonzalez didn't even have a 20-homer season in all of his 20s.

Who had "crazy seasons/stretches" that wasn't on PEDs?

Davey Johnson 1973?


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