✹The PERENNIAL Shohei Ohtani Thread✹

[al3xmac10]

Angels are 3-1.
Shohei is nicked up, but ok.
See you tomorrow!

[tblood]

Originally Posted by al3xmac10

Angels are 3-1.
Shohei is nicked up, but ok.
See you tomorrow!

Beautiful card!! I know his SC has been downplayed but I am still drawn to it.


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[redauto5]

Originally Posted by tblood

Man... this thread went on a prodigy to apocalypse roller coaster ride in a matter of minutes.

Maddon did nothing wrong leaving Ohtani in imo. There is no need to run scared from a situation like that this early in the season. He knew Ohtani was amped up and wanted to see him work through the emotions and the situation. He gave Ohtani his chance(s) which should hopefully build trust between them. One of the worst feelings as a pitcher after losing a couple batters is knowing the coach has a habit of yanking you at the first sign of trouble for your own “good”, or because the numbers say there is a better option. I think the catcher screwed up more by not taking a trip to the mound after the 3rd ball to Eaton. It looked like Ohtani needed a chance to take a deep breath to get out of his own head.

It also looked like the collision at the plate was a potential catastrophe at first glance. Thankfully the replay was a huge relief. Someone in one of the posts above said Ohtani was jinxed, but I think it’s quite the opposite. Those kinds of plays have a tendency to end badly. No hard or awkward impact with the ground, and no terrible twisting, torquing or bending of arms or legs this time. We’ve all had harder falls than that. Quite frankly, the kid is made of glass if he is truly injured (not just hurt) after that play. Either way, he didn’t get dinged on that play because he is injury prone. It wasn’t because Maddon left him in too long. And it definitely wasn’t because the Angles are stubbornly making him pitch and hit instead of one or the other.

He is going to be fine. *crosses fingers and hopes he’s not injured!*

I took away two things from his 5 innings tonight... and a ton of innings before tonight...

First - Ohtani is clearly one of the most talented players on the field in any game regardless of who he is playing with or against. Turning on and barreling a letter-high 97mph fastball the way he did is impressive. Especially after showing off his ability to stay behind the ball and go the other way most of the spring. His stuff on the mound, when he’s controlling it, is more than just filthy or nasty. It’s unfair for the hitter. Robert’s 2nd AB is a great example. 100mph at the knees coming from the same angle as his splitter. That’s just toying with the hitter.

Second - The downside... at times it doesn’t look like he is mentally on the same level as his talent. Call me blind and say I’m wrong, but it’s just what I see in him sometimes. He got rattled tonight and it didn’t take much. That or his emotions were dialed up to a 9 or 10 most of the night. His control issues were mechanically driven but only because he didn’t look locked in mentally. With his stuff he really doesn’t need to let it rip on every fastball. The 3-0 pitch to Eaton in the 5th was his smoothest and easiest delivery of the night and still hit 97mph.

There is obviously no guarantee that he will figure out how to put it all together on a consistent basis, but man I sure hope he does! I think baseball needs a player like him and it will be one hell of a ride for us!


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Great post man. Agreed, his mental game is brittle at times. He has such drive to prove what he knows he can do on the field that he gets in his own way sometimes it seems.

To be honest, I think it's GREAT how this outing ended for him. Crazy play, knocked down, back up, Angels win, Maddon shows confidence in him and he is being provided an opportunity to show his toughness and his whole game.

I love the story, am fully captivated by the guy, and have put my money where my conviction is. I'm all in on Shohei.

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[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by tblood

Man... this thread went on a prodigy to apocalypse roller coaster ride in a matter of minutes.

Maddon did nothing wrong leaving Ohtani in imo. There is no need to run scared from a situation like that this early in the season. He knew Ohtani was amped up and wanted to see him work through the emotions and the situation. He gave Ohtani his chance(s) which should hopefully build trust between them. One of the worst feelings as a pitcher after losing a couple batters is knowing the coach has a habit of yanking you at the first sign of trouble for your own “good”, or because the numbers say there is a better option. I think the catcher screwed up more by not taking a trip to the mound after the 3rd ball to Eaton. It looked like Ohtani needed a chance to take a deep breath to get out of his own head.

It also looked like the collision at the plate was a potential catastrophe at first glance. Thankfully the replay was a huge relief. Someone in one of the posts above said Ohtani was jinxed, but I think it’s quite the opposite. Those kinds of plays have a tendency to end badly. No hard or awkward impact with the ground, and no terrible twisting, torquing or bending of arms or legs this time. We’ve all had harder falls than that. Quite frankly, the kid is made of glass if he is truly injured (not just hurt) after that play. Either way, he didn’t get dinged on that play because he is injury prone. It wasn’t because Maddon left him in too long. And it definitely wasn’t because the Angles are stubbornly making him pitch and hit instead of one or the other.

He is going to be fine. *crosses fingers and hopes he’s not injured!*

I took away two things from his 5 innings tonight... and a ton of innings before tonight...

First - Ohtani is clearly one of the most talented players on the field in any game regardless of who he is playing with or against. Turning on and barreling a letter-high 97mph fastball the way he did is impressive. Especially after showing off his ability to stay behind the ball and go the other way most of the spring. His stuff on the mound, when he’s controlling it, is more than just filthy or nasty. It’s unfair for the hitter. Robert’s 2nd AB is a great example. 100mph at the knees coming from the same angle as his splitter. That’s just toying with the hitter.

Second - The downside... at times it doesn’t look like he is mentally on the same level as his talent. Call me blind and say I’m wrong, but it’s just what I see in him sometimes. He got rattled tonight and it didn’t take much. That or his emotions were dialed up to a 9 or 10 most of the night. His control issues were mechanically driven but only because he didn’t look locked in mentally. With his stuff he really doesn’t need to let it rip on every fastball. The 3-0 pitch to Eaton in the 5th was his smoothest and easiest delivery of the night and still hit 97mph.

There is obviously no guarantee that he will figure out how to put it all together on a consistent basis, but man I sure hope he does! I think baseball needs a player like him and it will be one hell of a ride for us!


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Good summary.

I wonder how much the language barrier comes into effect in those moments...I mean the catcher just can't run out and say just anything.

If he can learn to control the focus and the zone, he will be a monster on the bump.

[tblood]

Good for a Monday morning chuckle.

https://twitter.com/PIayoffTanaka/st...913394692?s=20


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[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by tblood

Good for a Monday morning chuckle.

https://twitter.com/PIayoffTanaka/st...913394692?s=20


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It's fun to see the hype and it was also cool to hear CC call him the best player he has ever seen.

Showtime!

[Ebucs1604]

I think hes finally turning a corner, his stuff was just nasty last night. He almost got out of that jam in the fifth inning if wasnt for the catchers throw to first. Im curious to see how his next few outings go, does he build on it or was it just a one off

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

So you come into an Ohtani thread and ask if someone knows what it take to be a two way player. You're that guy.

Nobody said he has to play 162 games. It is hard as hell but where is there an iron clad rule that it can't be done. The only proof you've offered is your own biases.

I think what concerns me is an SP who goes 5-6 innings and throws 80-100 pitches, especially with his velocity, requires a tremendous amount of leg power and exertion. If he’s batting in the game too, and he’s racked up some extra base hits, sprints on the bases etc, that taxes the legs too. I think it’s awesome what he’s doing and I am rooting hard for him. Fatigue will play a factor, but I think he can have a tremendous season even if he only plays 145-150 games. They will have to rest him at least once a week though in my opinion.

PS: How cool would it be to see him as an AS pitcher and hitter???


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[Mahomie]

Originally Posted by Ebucs1604

I think hes finally turning a corner, his stuff was just nasty last night. He almost got out of that jam in the fifth inning if wasnt for the catchers throw to first. Im curious to see how his next few outings go, does he build on it or was it just a one off

This should've been the end of the inning - I thought the ball was tipped when I first saw it live, but it looks like Stassi was set up low and away and just missed it. Scored as a passed ball, not a wild pitch.

[imbluestreak23]

The ump didn't give Sho any favors in the fifth. Lots of strikes grazing through the zone called balls that put him behind in every count. Could have probably gone 6 or 7

Ump probably mad he didn't by Ohtani cards in the offseason.

[Ebucs1604]

Originally Posted by Mahomie

This should've been the end of the inning - I thought the ball was tipped when I first saw it live, but it looks like Stassi was set up low and away and just missed it. Scored as a passed ball, not a wild pitch.

The catcher managed to botch the same play twice. It was great pitch going down and in of course a clean throw to first and we arent talking about this since its still a one run game

[Flkrsn5]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

The ump didn't give Sho any favors in the fifth. Lots of strikes grazing through the zone called balls that put him behind in every count. Could have probably gone 6 or 7

Ump probably mad he didn't by Ohtani cards in the offseason.

Yea he wasn’t good for either pitcher. A lot of dimes thrown that he called balls.

[Philthy]

I thought Ohtani looked great after the first inning. He was struggling with his control a lot in that first, but the home run seemed to really calm his nerves.

The fifth inning looks bad on paper, but he had some nasty pitch sequencing and there were a couple balls that were borderline that would have ended the inning. Overall, I thought this was really encouraging.

To tblood's point, I've never seen Ohtani show so much emotion while pitching. So mentally, I think he was just anxious after struggling in the spring on the bump. Thats obviously armchair physcology, but I have to think having a very solid outing is going to do well for his confidence.

If he can throw his fastball for strikes consistently then he's going to be an ace. That fastball/splitter combo is just super nasty and then you pair that with the little front door slider he was throwing arm-side to righties? He nailed that pitch 6 or 7 times and the hitters literally couldn't pull the trigger. Maybe I'm just overly-optimistic but I can't wait for his next start. He's my favorite non-Braves player.

[tblood]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

I think what concerns me is an SP who goes 5-6 innings and throws 80-100 pitches, especially with his velocity, requires a tremendous amount of leg power and exertion. If he’s batting in the game too, and he’s racked up some extra base hits, sprints on the bases etc, that taxes the legs too. I think it’s awesome what he’s doing and I am rooting hard for him. Fatigue will play a factor, but I think he can have a tremendous season even if he only plays 145-150 games. They will have to rest him at least once a week though in my opinion.

PS: How cool would it be to see him as an AS pitcher and hitter???


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I definitely agree with this. I will add that every sport has two different levels of conditioning. Off season and in season. How many former football players have you heard use the term “football shape” when referring to a player returning from an injury? You can condition all you want, but it’s different from the condition your body is in during the season. It matters more in football than baseball in general, but I think Ohtani will be an exception. If he and the Angels do it correctly, I think there is a good chance he actually gets stronger as the season continues.

This goes hand-in-hand with what I mentioned about Ohtani needing to “figure it out” in my previous post. The announcer last night used the term “leverage pitches” a few times. We used to call them “redline pitches” when I played, but I think he was talking about the same thing. A pitcher may only put in 5-10% more effort compared to a regular pitch, but I tell ya... they are more taxing on your body and wear you down at a much higher rate. Ohtani looked like he was sitting above redline on most of his pitches last night! He still strikes me as more of a thrower than a pitcher. Some may think I’m crazy for saying that because of how talented he is, but there is a difference. Id love to see him throw a couple of innings at 95% and see if his fastball control improves. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I believe half of his 52 fastballs were out of the zone last night? He has to improve that %. If he does, I think he will average fewer pitches per inning which translates to less effort which may translate to a more productive season at the plate.

Just my .02.


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[anusinha]

Originally Posted by tblood

I definitely agree with this. I will add that every sport has two different levels of conditioning. Off season and in season. How many former football players have you heard use the term “football shape” when referring to a player returning from an injury? You can condition all you want, but it’s different from the condition your body is in during the season. It matters more in football than baseball in general, but I think Ohtani will be an exception. If he and the Angels do it correctly, I think there is a good chance he actually gets stronger as the season continues.

This goes hand-in-hand with what I mentioned about Ohtani needing to “figure it out” in my previous post. The announcer last night used the term “leverage pitches” a few times. We used to call them “redline pitches” when I played, but I think he was talking about the same thing. A pitcher may only put in 5-10% more effort compared to a regular pitch, but I tell ya... they are more taxing on your body and wear you down at a much higher rate. Ohtani looked like he was sitting above redline on most of his pitches last night! He still strikes me as more of a thrower than a pitcher. Some may think I’m crazy for saying that because of how talented he is, but there is a difference. Id love to see him throw a couple of innings at 95% and see if his fastball control improves. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I believe half of his 52 fastballs were out of the zone last night? He has to improve that %. If he does, I think he will average fewer pitches per inning which translates to less effort which may translate to a more productive season at the plate.

Just my .02.


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yeah, his stuff is very good, he just needs to focus more on hitting the strike zone. Batters arent going to be able to hit his stuff.

[Trueblue]

So uh, back to cards. 17 HMT1s for #17. History being made before our eyes.

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

I think what concerns me is an SP who goes 5-6 innings and throws 80-100 pitches, especially with his velocity, requires a tremendous amount of leg power and exertion. If he’s batting in the game too, and he’s racked up some extra base hits, sprints on the bases etc, that taxes the legs too. I think it’s awesome what he’s doing and I am rooting hard for him. Fatigue will play a factor, but I think he can have a tremendous season even if he only plays 145-150 games. They will have to rest him at least once a week though in my opinion.

PS: How cool would it be to see him as an AS pitcher and hitter???


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There is no doubt in my mind that the physical demand would not allow him to do both at this pace for more than 3-5 years. Everything is harder when you're 30. But if he can do it even that length and become a closer or just an SP with less ABs, it's mission accomplished in my mind.

[base set]

I look forward to his biography some day that might explain why he picked the Angels over the Cubs; I can’t recall the $ offers though and could have been that bottom line simple.

In some parallel reality universe, he is playing across town right now and the mania is at even more volcanic levels.

Such a great player to collect with essentially double the card images to pick from.

[BigMac]

Originally Posted by base set

I look forward to his biography some day that might explain why he picked the Angels over the Cubs; I can’t recall the $ offers though and could have been that bottom line simple.

In some parallel reality universe, he is playing across town right now and the mania is at even more volcanic levels.

Such a great player to collect with essentially double the card images to pick from.

probably because of the DH.. i also believe he liked that angels wasnt a super big market team

[Rage]

Shohei chose the Angels because they committed to letting him be a two way player. They won't make him give up one side until he decides it's time. Especially now with Maddon they are emphasizing that Shohei is the one to tell the the coaching staff when he is able to hit in the lineup, no set rules for him now besides just pitching when his spot comes up in the rotation.

[tblood]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

So uh, back to cards. 17 HMT1s for #17. History being made before our eyes.

Nice group! Do you like HMT17 over 150 in general?


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[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by tblood

Nice group! Do you like HMT17 over 150 in general?


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You can't ignore the fact that S2 is the original. I would personally go HMT1 for base due to scarcity and 150 for parallels since it's the original.

Will always be a debated topic. Just buy both - hard to dog either one.

[tblood]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

You can't ignore the fact that S2 is the original. I would personally go HMT1 for base due to scarcity and 150 for parallels since it's the original.

Will always be a debated topic. Just buy both - hard to dog either one.

I don’t think there is much to debate with that logic.

I love Ohtani and have been kicking myself for getting sidetracked by a couple other rookies. I knew I should have been buying like crazy but never dove back in. I already missed my window to pick up a number of his cards on my list. I hope there isn’t another one.

Those reds are a couple of beauts! I’m starting to remember your collection a bit more after seeing the last two pics. Are you more on the collecting or investing side of the hobby?


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[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by tblood

I don’t think there is much to debate with that logic.

I love Ohtani and have been kicking myself for getting sidetracked by a couple other rookies. I knew I should have been buying like crazy but never dove back in. I already missed my window to pick up a number of his cards on my list. I hope there isn’t another one.

Those reds are a couple of beauts! I’m starting to remember your collection a bit more after seeing the last two pics. Are you more on the collecting or investing side of the hobby?


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For Ohtani it's definitely PC. Ive sold some to fund other projects, but it would have been nothing short of stupid for me to buy at the pace I was buying unless he was my dude. The hardest purchases turned out to be the best ones.

[gunnerpei]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

You can't ignore the fact that S2 is the original. I would personally go HMT1 for base due to scarcity and 150 for parallels since it's the original.

Will always be a debated topic. Just buy both - hard to dog either one.

Gorgeous cards!!!


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