Top Player of ALL-TIME - Page 3

SDcardguy24 · 07-07-2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlab85

I was about to say something... looks like you guys said it all!

But really... Trevor Freaking Hoffman? Maybe he meant top 10,000 baseball players of all time

Not sure why Hoffman or Rivera make his top 10, as I don't think any closers should be ranked that high.

travisakers · 07-07-2013, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDcardguy24

Not sure why Hoffman or Rivera make his top 10, as I don't think any closers should be ranked that high.

He probably had John Rocker at a close #11.

Wolves4Life · 07-07-2013, 05:56 PM

Entire thread is dumb if you really want to get exact. No one can say 1 person is best of all time. Every answer is wrong. There is a best of their era or decade but to compare ruth to bonds to pujols is the most ridiculous argument ever. Ruth was great in a way different era and time than todays players are and are dealing with awhole lot more in todays game so the point of greatest ever might be a fun argument but there will never be a right answer. Every answer will be wrong.

dlab85 · 07-07-2013, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesportscards

Over 800...

unlikely... played in the deadball era and his pace in those years would have put him at 16, 9, 6, and 20 respectively. His stats for those years were 4, 3, 2, 11. You're looking at a gain of 31 HRs had he played every day.

Live-ball era and a move to Polo Grounds/Yankee Stadium were his biggest contributors to his numbers.

travisakers · 07-07-2013, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

Entire thread is dumb if you really want to get exact. No one can say 1 person is best of all time. Every answer is wrong. There is a best of their era or decade but to compare ruth to bonds to pujols is the most ridiculous argument ever. Ruth was great in a way different era and time than todays players are and are dealing with awhole lot more in todays game so the point of greatest ever might be a fun argument but there will never be a right answer. Every answer will be wrong.

I disagree. I don't think that there is a player, manager, commentator, fan, expert out there that wouldn't place Ruth as the best of all-time regardless of the context, era, etc.

What he did for the game of baseball is beyond what any individual athlete has done for their respective sport. Even above Tiger for golf, MJ for basketball, and Doink the Clown for professional wrestling (RIP).

cardinalscards4 · 07-07-2013, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groundsupport

I'd put Derek Jeter on that list before Pujols.

This may be a block-able offense.

cardinalscards4 · 07-07-2013, 06:03 PM

I wouldn't put Ruth #1, by the way.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with doing so.

Wolves4Life · 07-07-2013, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisakers

I disagree. I don't think that there is a player, manager, commentator, fan, expert out there that wouldn't place Ruth as the best of all-time regardless of the context, era, etc.

What he did for the game of baseball is beyond what any individual athlete has done for their respective sport. Even above Tiger for golf, MJ for basketball, and Doink the Clown for professional wrestling.

Same can be said for Sosa and Mac. They brought baseball back after the strike. Alleged use or not people came back to see the chase.

Davesportscards · 07-07-2013, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

10. Mo Rivera
9. Trevor Hoffman
8. Mike Schmidt
7. Ken Griffey Jr
6. Nolan Ryan
5. Cal Ripken Jr
4. Babe Ruth
3. Roberto Clemente
2. Barry Bonds
1. Albert Pujols

I left few out way before my time Babe only one before all our time should automatically be on the list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

Entire thread is dumb if you really want to get exact. No one can say 1 person is best of all time. Every answer is wrong. There is a best of their era or decade but to compare ruth to bonds to pujols is the most ridiculous argument ever. Ruth was great in a way different era and time than todays players are and are dealing with awhole lot more in todays game so the point of greatest ever might be a fun argument but there will never be a right answer. Every answer will be wrong.

Dumb enough for you to have previously posted your own list?

travisakers · 07-07-2013, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesportscards

Dumb enough for you to have previously posted your own list?

Jopeal · 07-07-2013, 06:05 PM

To not have Bonds in the top 5 is absolutely foolish. Of course he was on roids, but just looking at the numbers, hes neck and neck with ruth.

People want to try and include Clemens yet no mention of Randy Johnson?

travisakers · 07-07-2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jopeal

To not have Bonds in the top 5 is absolutely foolish. Of course he was on roids, but just looking at the numbers, hes neck and neck with ruth.

People want to try and include Clemens yet no mention of Randy Johnson?

If anything should be a stat, it should be bird killing. Randy Johnson is the only pitcher to have 1.000 in that category.

Davesportscards · 07-07-2013, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jopeal

To have Bonds in the top 10 is absolutely foolish. Of course he was on roids.

People want to try and include Clemens yet no mention of Randy Johnson?

Fixed for you.

Wolves4Life · 07-07-2013, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesportscards

Dumb enough for you to have previously posted your own list?

Never said i wouldnt cooperate

dlab85 · 07-07-2013, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jopeal

To not have Bonds in the top 5 is absolutely foolish. Of course he was on roids, but just looking at the numbers, hes neck and neck with ruth.

People want to try and include Clemens yet no mention of Randy Johnson?

Actually Johnson has a mention on the first list.... an honorable one, to be exact.

And Bonds is neck and neck with Ruth for one reason.... you guessed it! Roids!

Bonds is not better than Ruth, Cobb, Williams, Mays, Griffey, Aaron, Mantle, Musial, etc.

Here is a nice article from ESPN discussing the nature of some of the Bonds HRs ESPN.com: Page 2 : 616* (* no asterisk required)

Davesportscards · 07-07-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

Never said i wouldnt cooperate

Pretty sure you mean PARTICIPATE.

marinocollector · 07-07-2013, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

Entire thread is dumb if you really want to get exact. No one can say 1 person is best of all time. Every answer is wrong. There is a best of their era or decade but to compare ruth to bonds to pujols is the most ridiculous argument ever. Ruth was great in a way different era and time than todays players are and are dealing with awhole lot more in todays game so the point of greatest ever might be a fun argument but there will never be a right answer. Every answer will be wrong.

???? You obviously have NO IDEA how big of a celebrity Ruth was in the early 1900's. The man made more money a year than the U.S. President at a time when that was unheard of. The sheer dominance of the man in his era makes him the best hands down. When a player can starting hitting better than 70% of entire baseball teams, then you can say he's the greatest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jopeal

To not have Bonds in the top 5 is absolutely foolish. Of course he was on roids, but just looking at the numbers, hes neck and neck with ruth.

People want to try and include Clemens yet no mention of Randy Johnson?

Clemens was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Randy once Clemens started using. I really don't think Clemens belongs anywhere near a top 20 of baseball pitchers, let alone all-positions.

On a side note, Barry had one of the GREATEST baseball careers EVER before the timeline of him using 'roids. Man had 500 HR and 500 stolen bases.... no one else has even had 400/400.

travisakers · 07-07-2013, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesportscards

Pretty sure you mean PARTICIPATE.

Can you really correct a guy who placed Hoffman in the top-10 list? That's somebody you just let live in happy bouncing bunnies land.

However, I will say his list is a great top-10 of Rookie Cards to own.

Davesportscards · 07-07-2013, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisakers

Can you really correct a guy who placed Hoffman in the top-10 list? That's somebody you just let live in happy bouncing bunnies land.

However, I will say his list is a great top-10 of Rookie Cards to own.

Maybe he DID base it off of rookie cards!

Wolves4Life · 07-07-2013, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisakers

Can you really correct a guy who placed Hoffman in the top-10 list? That's somebody you just let live in happy bouncing bunnies land.

However, I will say his list is a great top-10 of Rookie Cards to own.

I meant what i said and i meant what i put in top 10 its sad "fans" think list is sooooo bad. Funny how no one has a problem with Mo in my list but people whine and complain cause Hoff is in it.

dlab85 · 07-07-2013, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinocollector

Clemens was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Randy once Clemens started using. I really don't think Clemens belongs anywhere near a top 20 of baseball pitchers, let alone all-positions.

On a side note, Barry had one of the GREATEST baseball careers EVER before the timeline of him using 'roids. Man had 500 HR and 500 stolen bases.... no one else has even had 400/400.

Bonds had 411 at the time his steroid use started in 1999.

Davesportscards · 07-07-2013, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

I meant what i said and i meant what i put in top 10 its sad "fans" think list is sooooo bad. Funny how no one has a problem with Mo in my list but people whine and complain cause Hoff is in it.

So only "fans" would appreciate your list?

travisakers · 07-07-2013, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

I meant what i said and i meant what i put in top 10 its sad "fans" think list is sooooo bad. Funny how no one has a problem with Mo in my list but people whine and complain cause Hoff is in it.

Oh no, I have a problem with Mo on the list too... he's the best closer in the history of the game, but by no means is he top-10, top-20, or top-30 of all-time. Now, if we're having a pitchers only discussion, he's top-15 for sure, and quite easily argued for top-10.

jr24ai3 · 07-07-2013, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrybcollins

ZiPS actually projected out his stats at 704 hrs, 2524 RBIs, 2488 runs and a .346/.488/.643 line. I have to think he would have played 1 more year for the record. He is on the short list for best of all time for sure.

How do they get him at a .346 average? He would have to hit nearly .370-.375 to get to .346 for his career. He's only at .321 right now. (I say ONLY .321 when talking about ending his career at .346. Clearly .321 is a great career average)

mcgoo2 · 07-07-2013, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlab85

Actually Johnson has a mention on the first list.... an honorable one, to be exact.

And Bonds is neck and neck with Ruth for one reason.... you guessed it! Roids!

Bonds is not better than Ruth, Cobb, Williams, Mays, Griffey, Aaron, Mantle, Musial, etc.

Here is a nice article from ESPN discussing the nature of some of the Bonds HRs ESPN.com: Page 2 : 616* (* no asterisk required)

Ignoring the speculation aspect and taking the article as fact, Bonds over Mantle (lower HR, slightly higher OBP, similar average) and Griffey (lower average/OBP, higher HR) could still be argued. Bonds also has over 3x as many stolen bases as either of them.

07-07-2013, 05:56 PM	#53
Wolves4Life Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 12,459	Entire thread is dumb if you really want to get exact. No one can say 1 person is best of all time. Every answer is wrong. There is a best of their era or decade but to compare ruth to bonds to pujols is the most ridiculous argument ever. Ruth was great in a way different era and time than todays players are and are dealing with awhole lot more in todays game so the point of greatest ever might be a fun argument but there will never be a right answer. Every answer will be wrong.

07-07-2013, 06:03 PM	#57
cardinalscards4 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 7,513 cardinalscards42 prospectpicks	I wouldn't put Ruth #1, by the way. That being said, I see nothing wrong with doing so.

07-07-2013, 06:05 PM	#61
Jopeal Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: RI Posts: 8,153 dr.jopeal	To not have Bonds in the top 5 is absolutely foolish. Of course he was on roids, but just looking at the numbers, hes neck and neck with ruth. People want to try and include Clemens yet no mention of Randy Johnson?