Picard

[Hichung]

Finally saw the first episode. Loved it! The last scene grabbed my attention. I’m guessing it references something specific from the past but I’m not remembering as it’s been awhile since I’ve watched the different series (vague to not spoil it).

[A Levine]

Originally Posted by Hichung

Finally saw the first episode. Loved it! The last scene grabbed my attention. I’m guessing it references something specific from the past but I’m not remembering as it’s been awhile since I’ve watched the different series (vague to not spoil it).

If it's the final scene i'm thinking of, it's not referencing a past episode, but instead giving us a glimpse at what's to come. A lot of backstory we've missed (Episode 2 begins with a flashback to some of the events in between the last movie and this series).

[BravesFan4Life]

Originally Posted by packman80

I won't watch this for 2 reasons first I refuse to pay extra for a show that should be on their channel and not have to pay extra to see more shows. Second reason is I heard Patrick Stewart is going to put his political views into the show. Left or Right you should never use a show like this as a soapbox for one's political views.

Have you ever watched any episode from any of the series ever? Star Trek has always had a political opinion one way or the other. If they removed that it would not feel like Trek at all.


On a secondary note, watched the first episode and loved it. It is great to see Stewart back, I am so glad they are not just rehashing TNG and they are trying to avoid forcing TNG characters in unless they make sense.

[Hichung]

Originally Posted by A Levine

If it's the final scene i'm thinking of, it's not referencing a past episode, but instead giving us a glimpse at what's to come. A lot of backstory we've missed (Episode 2 begins with a flashback to some of the events in between the last movie and this series).

Yeah I was thinking of the final scene. That makes sense. I was wracking my brain trying to think of what it could be referencing.

[BobCollects]

Is there just the one binder exclusive promo card from the recent Rittenhouse Star Trek Inflexions set? There are at least two different promo card sets listed on eBay but I can't find any information about them:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/STAR-TREK-P...e/274223282379

https://www.ebay.com/itm/STAR-TREK-P...e/274223284495

[Scifi Cards]

These aren't by Rittenhouse, at least officially.

Likely home made. But studios have been known to commission their own promo sets before, so you never really know. The copyrights are there, but they would be on a good pirate set.

Ed

[A Levine]

In other news, the show continues to be really excellent!

[tier1dc]

Originally Posted by A Levine

In other news, the show continues to be really excellent!

what? it's awful. takes all the history of TNG and pretty much dumps all over it.

and alison pill's dialogue in episode 4 was the icing on the cake. just awful.

[A Levine]

Originally Posted by tier1dc

what? it's awful. takes all the history of TNG and pretty much dumps all over it.

and alison pill's dialogue in episode 4 was the icing on the cake. just awful.

Different strokes for different folks, but as someone who's first and favorite Trek is TNG, I am thrilled with it. Fun, exciting, and takes the character of Picard, and the history of Trek, in new and interesting directions.

As much as i'd have probably enjoyed TNG 2.0, i'm glad they are exploring new facets to the character, and taking the "idyllic future world" of the Federation and examining the cost of maintaining that kind of utopia.

Phenomenal storytelling so far. Looking forward to seeing what they do next each week.

[free2131]

I hate reboots/sequels that ignore certain canon that they don't like.

The Romulans were allies in the Dominion War and most all of the Senate was killed and what was left sided with Picard in Nemesis. They may have been uneasy allies, but they certainly weren't enemies.

Picard never was a "father figure" to anyone on the ship. He maintained a professional detachment from everyone except maybe Crusher. I have no doubt he mourned Data and felt responsible, but to call him a friend is a bit much. The new Picard is in complete contradiction to the one in TNG.

The Federation would never outlaw all synthetic life because of one attack on one shipyard. They would never stop an evacuation of an entire species due to a few members threatening to leave. They bent over backwards to make peace with everyone they came in contact with. Again, just like Picard, this Federation is nothing like the Federation of TNG.

On just a personal preference level, when the one officer called him JL, I cringed so hard I thought I'd fall out of my chair. Plus, the insane amount of technobabble is so hard to deal with. I'll also never get over f-bombs being dropped in Star Trek.

That being said, I am interested in where the story is going, so I'll keep watching.

[A Levine]

Star Trek is my obsession so i'm happy to indulge...

Originally Posted by free2131

I hate reboots/sequels that ignore certain canon that they don't like.

Which this doesn't!

Originally Posted by free2131

The Romulans were allies in the Dominion War and most all of the Senate was killed and what was left sided with Picard in Nemesis. They may have been uneasy allies, but they certainly weren't enemies.

And nowhere do they say they were. Even after TUC, it was still decades of conflict before the Klingons truly made peace with the Federation. Clearly, establishing diplomatic relations (as was implied at the end of Nemesis), does not mean they were friends, and this series is saying that there was still some residual distrust and enmity. Just as there still is with Russia today, despite us not being enemies.

Originally Posted by free2131

Picard never was a "father figure" to anyone on the ship.

I would disagree. He was clearly a stoic, but was a father figure to several characters, including Wesley ("Final Mission"), to Jono ("Suddenly Human") to Jason Vigo ("Bloodlines") and even to some degree to Marissa, Patterson, and Jay-Gordon ("Disaster").

Originally Posted by free2131

He maintained a professional detachment from everyone except maybe Crusher. I have no doubt he mourned Data and felt responsible, but to call him a friend is a bit much.

And this says a lot about who he is now, that he looks back calling him a friend, doesn't it? Perhaps its his guilt speaking? Guilt for not being closer, for not being truly a friend? What was one of his last lines in AGT? "I should have done this a long time ago."

Originally Posted by free2131

The new Picard is in complete contradiction to the one in TNG.

And I completely disagree. He's the same Picard, 25 years later, changed by multiple traumas, and now a different man looking back at a life full of regrets.

Originally Posted by free2131

The Federation would never outlaw all synthetic life because of one attack on one shipyard.

Yes they would, and it's actually more in line with Trek history than you'd think. After the Eugenics war they outlawed genetic tampering, and banished the likes of Khan and his followers to suspended animation, and later to exile. They punished those who genetically engineered their children (DS9; "Doctor Bashir, I presume"), and imprisoned those who pursued research into genetic resequencing (ENT; "Borderland"). Considering millions of people were killed, their entire shipyards destroyed, and the planet of Mars "still burning" 14 years later, I can fully understand the desire to outlaw androids, and research into artificially intelligent humanoid life. Right now I am forced to wonder the difference though between a Data, a synth, and an EMH type character. Something to explore later, I hope.

Originally Posted by free2131

They would never stop an evacuation of an entire species due to a few members threatening to leave.

Clearly they would! They committed to it, remember, against the objection of 14 worlds. But after the destruction of their evacuation fleet, their shipyards, and what must have been even further objections from perhaps important worlds in the Federation, it becomes perfectly reasonable.

This is precisely what I like about this show. No longer are we seeing this perfect, idyllic Federation. We're seeing the difficult choices that need to be made to keep this unprecedented galactic alliance intact. We're seeing that the Federation is run by imperfect people who can make bad choices, without being bad people. A lot more interesting to me than than the cookie cutter, cardboard characters we saw in past shows. Starfleet officers-- and Admirals in particular-- were almost always either a paragon of virtue (Admiral Brand, "The First Duty") or evil and corrupt (Admiral Pressman, "The Pegasus"). We're seeing something a lot more like the shades of grey on DS9.

Originally Posted by free2131

They bent over backwards to make peace with everyone they came in contact with. Again, just like Picard, this Federation is nothing like the Federation of TNG.

The ENTERPRISE did. We saw Jellico definitely not bending over backwards. We saw Sisko, Janeway, and many others not bend over backwards to make peace. Again, we've seen so little of this vast Federation-- you know Starfleet has thousands of ships, diplomats, and worlds with their own star fleets. As above, this complexity is far more realistic, less like the Federation WE SAW on TNG and the Enterprise-D, but not necessarily unlike the Federation that WAS on TNG. It was always there, we just didn't always see it.

Originally Posted by free2131

On just a personal preference level, when the one officer called him JL, I cringed so hard I thought I'd fall out of my chair.

Loved that. It showed how Picard as a character has grown in the time since Nemesis, that he now has more personal relationships with his crew. Perhaps, as I alluded to above, losing Data made him realize how important building friendships really is, having not truly developed them on the Enterprise.

Originally Posted by free2131

Plus, the insane amount of technobabble is so hard to deal with.

Oh come on now, technobabble is a Trek staple!

Originally Posted by free2131

I'll also never get over f-bombs being dropped in Star Trek.

Star Trek not including swear words was always an issue of TV censorship. McCoy "TV swore" all the time, and curse words were fairly common in the films.

I highly recommend watching the IG post from Michael Chabon where he addresses a lot of criticism seen online. It's pretty clear that he (the showrunner) is VERY well-versed in Trek history and lore, and is tremendously-- almost slavishly-- respectful of it.

[free2131]

Very nice to see another Trekkie. I've seen every series multiple times (except TOS as I've only seen it once) as well as the movies, so I obviously was excited for the new series. I wasn't too happy with Kurtzman's involvement because I don't care for the newer Trek.

And nowhere do they say they were. Even after TUC, it was still decades of conflict before the Klingons truly made peace with the Federation. Clearly, establishing diplomatic relations (as was implied at the end of Nemesis), does not mean they were friends, and this series is saying that there was still some residual distrust and enmity. Just as there still is with Russia today, despite us not being enemies.

The reporter and Admiral both made it seem like they were still mortal enemies like they were in TNG. I also doubt that member worlds would have been so against it had there been some kind of diplomatic inroads with the Romulans.

The whole point of TUC was that we have to look past racism and learn to work together. This Federation is xenophobic and racist by design so it can parallel the US handling of immigrants and painting all people of race based on the actions of a few. I understand that story choice and it's a good story to tell, but it goes against what the Federation was supposed to represent.

I would disagree. He was clearly a stoic, but was a father figure to several characters, including Wesley ("Final Mission"), to Jono ("Suddenly Human") to Jason Vigo ("Bloodlines") and even to some degree to Marissa, Patterson, and Jay-Gordon ("Disaster").

I understand why they never did it, but I would have loved to see an arc about Wesley actually being Picard's son and Picard having to deal with the knowledge that he sent Jack to his death. It would make his fear/disdain for children make a lot more sense.

Anyway, sure, there are instances where he tried to act as a father figure, but it showed how incredibly bad he was at it. Plus, that was for children and younger adults. There was never a time that Picard acted fatherly to Riker, Worf, Geordie, etc. He was clearly a colleague and I'm sure a mentor, but it just wasn't as close as this series is trying to make it, IMO.

And this says a lot about who he is now, that he looks back calling him a friend, doesn't it? Perhaps its his guilt speaking? Guilt for not being closer, for not being truly a friend? What was one of his last lines in AGT? "I should have done this a long time ago."

That last line is a good point for what I'm saying. He should have joined them at the poker table. How could you call someone a father figure when it was such a big deal that he joined his crew playing poker? I guess I don't like the fact that we just have to assume that he became those things, because his arc in TNG never showed that.

After the Eugenics war they outlawed genetic tampering, and banished the likes of Khan and his followers to suspended animation, and later to exile.

That was in 1996 in the show, before Earth even knew about interstellar life. They also knew that genetic tampering created lots of problems with people, as was shown in "Statistical Probabilities". There were plenty of artificial lifeforms that created lots of issues for Starfleet (Dr. Moriarty, Lore, Data when he was corrupted, etc) and they didn't ban artificial life then.

Again, I understand with the story they are trying to tell that we need the Federation to be the way it is in Picard, but it just doesn't ring true to the Federation in TNG, IMO.

As above, this complexity is far more realistic, less like the Federation WE SAW on TNG and the Enterprise-D, but not necessarily unlike the Federation that WAS on TNG. It was always there, we just didn't always see it.

The Federation gave up cloaking technology to appease the Romulans, they gave up territory they shouldn't have to appease the Cardassians, etc. There is precedent that the Federation does in fact do all it can to avoid conflict, including giving more concessions than they should.

Oh come on now, technobabble is a Trek staple!

Sure, but there is so much more in Picard compared to a show like DS9, which is the benchmark on how it should be done. VOY was unwatchable at times because of that. Just that one scene where Picard and his (housekeeper?) were trying to find the messages in Doj's apartment... good lord, I zoned out.

Star Trek not including swear words was always an issue of TV censorship. McCoy "TV swore" all the time, and curse words were fairly common in the films.

Sure, but there were never any f-bombs in any film (I think the worse one was when Data said sh!t, which was played for laughs because of how out of place it was). I'm no prude, as my two favorite series are Breaking Bad and the reboot of Battlestar Galactica, it's just jarring.

As I said, I like the story of the show and plan on seeing it out through the end, but I guess I just wish it was more like TNG than it is.

[A Levine]

Originally Posted by free2131

The reporter and Admiral both made it seem like they were still mortal enemies like they were in TNG.

Again, just because they'd established some diplomatic relations does not mean they instantly became friends. In fact, it's also just as likely that hardline elements within the Romulan Empire-- with the Tal Shiar, for example-- could have rejected Federation peace overtures in the intervening 6 years. Besides, one friendly incident in Nemesis and a temporary alliance during the Dominion War does not erase 100 years of conflict and bloodshed.

Originally Posted by free2131

I also doubt that member worlds would have been so against it had there been some kind of diplomatic inroads with the Romulans.

This is completely believable to me, that someone like the Vulcans-- who as recently as 10 years prior to nemesis had been nearly invaded by Sela and Neral's forces-- or the Andorians, who are an innately distrustful species-- would be hardline opposition against efforts to save the Romulan people. In TUC we saw Starfleet officers conspiring with Klingons to stop the Federation from rescuing the Klingon people after the destruction of Praxis. Is it so hard to believe that some within the Federation could not let go of their hatred of Romulans? In fact, this series seems to be suggesting heavily that this secret Romulan sect (Jhot Vash) may have even been responsible for the Synth attack that stopped the rescue effort.

Originally Posted by free2131

This Federation is xenophobic and racist by design so it can parallel the US handling of immigrants and painting all people of race based on the actions of a few. I understand that story choice and it's a good story to tell, but it goes against what the Federation was supposed to represent.

It sounds to me like you're seeing what you want to see here. I do not see them as xenophobic and racist, but as an organization reluctantly forced to make a choice not to save an enemy power in order to save the organization itself. Yes, it is an allegory for current refugee crises' but I don't see the racism you're reading. Nobody has uttered slurs against them. Though, in TUC Admiral Cartwright did refer to the Klingons as "The Alien Trash of the Galaxy" so there is definitely some precedent there.

Originally Posted by free2131

I understand why they never did it, but I would have loved to see an arc about Wesley actually being Picard's son and Picard having to deal with the knowledge that he sent Jack to his death. It would make his fear/disdain for children make a lot more sense.

I'm happy to discuss your issues with the show, but I won't respond to fan-fic ideas that actually DO dump all over Trek history. I mean, making Wesley Picard's son? It's well established that Picard and Crusher had never gotten together prior to TNG, nor did they ever even get together during the show's run (outside of an alternate future).

Originally Posted by free2131

Anyway, sure, there are instances where he tried to act as a father figure, but it showed how incredibly bad he was at it.

Indeed. I'm not sure where this father figure stuff comes from though. It's not an element of this story, outside of Daj. But that too is an interesting angle: a man at the end of his life, who's never had children, suddenly feeling a paternal instinct.

Originally Posted by free2131

There was never a time that Picard acted fatherly to Riker, Worf, Geordie, etc.

Nor should he have. That would be VERY weird.

Originally Posted by free2131

That last line is a good point for what I'm saying. He should have joined them at the poker table. How could you call someone a father figure when it was such a big deal that he joined his crew playing poker? I guess I don't like the fact that we just have to assume that he became those things, because his arc in TNG never showed that.

I completely and fundamentally disagree with your last point. Picard as a character showed tremendous growth from Ep.1 to Ep. 178. Go binge watch the show in order, and you'll see it very clearly. In Season 1 he is stiff, uncomfortable around children, uncomfortable when off-duty with his own officers. Rarely gets personal with the crew. Episodes like Final Mission, Disaster, and Lessons show him slowly opening up.

In Season 2's "Samaritan Snare" it's made clear he does not want the crew knowing his private life. In Season 4's "Family" he reluctantly, albeit briefly, discusses his home with Counselor Troi. By season 6's "Tapestry" he freely tells Riker stories of his youth and seems genuinely at ease doing so. In "Timescape" he jokes with Troi and Geordi about his experiences at the engineering conference, even being downright silly with them.

And that scene in at the end of AGT is the capper to it all: he acknowledges that he's been too distant, and seeks to change that. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to assume that between then and now he's become a lot more mellow and friendly with his crew members. Even in the movies, he tells jokes at Riker's wedding, is much friendlier and jocular with the crew in Insurrection (even before the youth effects from the planet). We got to see so little of their relationships between AGT and PIC-- just 4 movies with very little time for character moments, so really, we're talking more than 25 years we never really got to see.

[QUOTE=free2131;15562130]]That was in 1996 in the show, before Earth even knew about interstellar life. They also knew that genetic tampering created lots of problems with people, as was shown in "Statistical Probabilities". There were plenty of artificial lifeforms that created lots of issues for Starfleet (Dr. Moriarty, Lore, Data when he was corrupted, etc) and they didn't ban artificial life then.[/QUOTE

But still, 400 years later, they still have those laws in place, and still enforce them strictly. It's in line with historical precedent. And I don't remember Moriarty killing tens of millions of people, and coordinating the destruction of hundreds (if not thousands) of vessels. We also don't know if some kind of Romulan agent wasn't somehow involved in this "legislation." Given that this Jhat Vash are so anti-android, it's not crazy to think they were responsible both for the rogue attack by the synths, and the ban on synths that followed.

Originally Posted by free2131

Again, I understand with the story they are trying to tell that we need the Federation to be the way it is in Picard, but it just doesn't ring true to the Federation in TNG, IMO.

To be frank, your opinion seems driven by a very narrow vision of the franchise, the characters, and the Federation.

Originally Posted by free2131

The Federation gave up cloaking technology to appease the Romulans, they gave up territory they shouldn't have to appease the Cardassians, etc. There is precedent that the Federation does in fact do all it can to avoid conflict, including giving more concessions than they should.

Appeasement is not comparable. They were trying to avoid war in those circmstances. In this one, they're trying to prevent the Federation from losing important member worlds (Brexit allegory?). If all they had to do was give the Romulans a planet to settle on, I think this would have been a very different narrative. THEN you could rightfully say they were being racist and xenophobic if they refused. But the rescue of billions of people was a titanic effort that might have failed even if it had gone ahead.

Originally Posted by free2131

Sure, but there were never any f-bombs in any film (I think the worse one was when Data said sh!t, which was played for laughs because of how out of place it was). I'm no prude, as my two favorite series are Breaking Bad and the reboot of Battlestar Galactica, it's just jarring.

So you JUST have a problem with the F word? I thought the admiral's use of it was very important to the scene. It showed how far Picard had fallen. He waltzed into Starfleet HQ assuming he'd get whatever he wanted, with arrogance after openly insulting the very organization he now wants a favor from. The "great Jean Luc Picard"-- dressed down by the CnC. When she swore, it was a message to the audience: this isn't the Picard who can walk into any room and instantly command respect. He is going to have to earn it back.

[free2131]

Originally Posted by A Levine

Yes, it is an allegory for current refugee crises' but I don't see the racism you're reading. Nobody has uttered slurs against them.

The racism I'm referring to is in regard to the synths (blaming an entire "race" for the actions of a few).

I'm happy to discuss your issues with the show, but I won't respond to fan-fic ideas that actually DO dump all over Trek history. I mean, making Wesley Picard's son? It's well established that Picard and Crusher had never gotten together prior to TNG, nor did they ever even get together during the show's run (outside of an alternate future).

You misunderstand, I'm saying that in the original TNG it would have been interesting to see Picard revealed to be Wesley's father, not in the new series. I know it was a different time and it would have been very difficult to see Picard as a protagonist in that scenario, but it would have been interesting.

To be frank, your opinion seems driven by a very narrow vision of the franchise, the characters, and the Federation.

Possibly. I grew up on TNG, so maybe I am being too stubborn.

When she swore, it was a message to the audience: this isn't the Picard who can walk into any room and instantly command respect. He is going to have to earn it back.

I get it and no, I don't have a problem per say. It's kind of like hearing your grandmother drop the f-bomb.

[tier1dc]

Originally Posted by A Levine

Clearly they would! They committed to it, remember, against the objection of 14 worlds. But after the destruction of their evacuation fleet, their shipyards, and what must have been even further objections from perhaps important worlds in the Federation, it becomes perfectly reasonable.

This is precisely what I like about this show. No longer are we seeing this perfect, idyllic Federation. We're seeing the difficult choices that need to be made to keep this unprecedented galactic alliance intact. We're seeing that the Federation is run by imperfect people who can make bad choices, without being bad people. A lot more interesting to me than than the cookie cutter, cardboard characters we saw in past shows. Starfleet officers-- and Admirals in particular-- were almost always either a paragon of virtue (Admiral Brand, "The First Duty") or evil and corrupt (Admiral Pressman, "The Pegasus"). We're seeing something a lot more like the shades of grey on DS9.

oh no 14 worlds objected to helping a race facing extinction?

14 whole worlds inside the federation?!?!?
150 worlds in the Federation and 14 want to leave?
OK lets let all the Romulans die.
Nothing champions the values of unity and cohesion like letting an entire race get obliterated.



the cursing is absurd, btw.
the fact that an Admiral would drop the fbomb on Picard is classless.

can't wait for Alison Pill's heel turn at some point. and Commodore Oh is the worst Vulcan of all time.

[A Levine]

I'm sorry you're so closed minded, and unable to enjoy the show. Sounds like you should turn your attention to something more to your liking.

[tier1dc]

Originally Posted by A Levine

I'm sorry you're so closed minded, and unable to enjoy the show. Sounds like you should turn your attention to something more to your liking.

can't wait to see if you're carrying water for this show when they reveal that the double secret Romulan elites actually created the Borg.

[MisterX]

Something I find incredibly ironic about this whole conversation is that Patrick Stewart has said he would NOT have done this show if it were simply going to be TNG 2.0. That was never going to happen, so all the fans arguing over the difference in tone is something of a moot point.

I’m a TNG fan through and through. That’s the Trek I grew up on and I’m loving the new show. I think A Levine has been on point throughout the entire conversation. It’s been 18 years since Nemesis in the timeline. Things will have changed. More importantly, the character of Picard will have changed. There was clearly an evolution of his character across the 15 years on TNG/the movies, why would there not be afterward?

And some truly bizarre things being said here... Picard and Data not obviously friends?
There are plenty of examples throughout TNG but the four TNG films really demonstrate the culmination of their friendship/relationship.
Watch their scene in stellar cartography in Generations. See Picard going back for Data in First Contact: even Lily signposts it: “go find your friend”.
See the way Picard looks at Data in Nemesis before he diverts course to explore the source of the positronic signals for his friend. Data didn’t sacrifice his life in that film because he was an android, he sacrificed his life to save his friend Picard: the act was a culmination of his life’s journey to do something human. How would that not weigh heavily on Picard?

I remember similar negative criticism of Picard “acting out of character” or not being ‘Jean-Luc Picard’ when he smashed up his ready room in First Contact. Well, maybe after all his Borg encounters he finally reached breaking point? Like people do. The very first scene of the film shows us his nightmares and that despite his claims to the contrary (as early as ‘I, Borg’ when in discussion with Troi), that Picard has never dealt with this past trauma. His variance of emotions and behaviour as a human being made sense to me then as much as it does now in the new show.

The paternal instinct for Dahl is inconsistent with Picard’s character?
Did no-one watch ‘Family’, or ‘Generations’?!? Where Picard shows great paternal instincts for his nephew Rene, and when he mourns Rene’s death and the life choices he did not make (being a husband and father), in exchange for his career.

It’s disappointing that some fans want card-board but outs of their favourite characters over depth and character development. Besides, we are talking about Patrick Stewart after all, he wasn’t going to sleepwalk through the new show.

I really do think some viewers rather miss the point.

[arek]

The show feels a bit stretched thin. The first episode got things started and the subsequent three have crawled along and interspersed some random action scenes. The bird-of-prey attack seems so vaguely set up and served only to introduce Seven into the story

[A Levine]

Originally Posted by arek

The show feels a bit stretched thin. The first episode got things started and the subsequent three have crawled along and interspersed some random action scenes. The bird-of-prey attack seems so vaguely set up and served only to introduce Seven into the story

I do admit, I think the first three episodes should have been an extended premiere, and not split up.

Yes, the attack wwas served to intro 7-of-9, but it was set up in the beginning of the episode if you were paying attention: Rios and Raffi both warn Picard that Vashti is in a lawless star system under the thumb of a local warlord. In contrast to you saying it was vague, I felt it was a bit too heavy-handed. But that's TV. Not every show, not every episode, is going to be Emmy winning writing.

In fact, Trek has NEVER been known for Emmy winning writing. It seems fans today look back at Trek with rose colored glasses, and seem to be holding this show to an impossible standard.

If it's not the absolute best thing on TV, if it's not EXACTLY the show they wanted it to be, it's total trash.

[A Levine]

Originally Posted by MisterX

Data didn’t sacrifice his life in that film because he was an android, he sacrificed his life to save his friend Picard: the act was a culmination of his life’s journey to do something human.

That movie was so awful, I've blocked it out of my memory, but this is an astute observation that gives me a (slightly) new respect for it. Brilliant. Also: a couple of scenes "Quality of Life" show their friendship-- as much friends as an emotionless android and a stoic can be

The scene at the end where Data apologizes to Picard, is not a subordinate explaining his actions to his commanding officer, but a man hoping his friend understood why he'd risk his life for a machine.

[arek]

I remember them mentioning the potential for attack and that there were now ‘Rangers’ in the system to provide security. It seems like that could have been a plot point which was developed further rather than used in a superficial manner.

Most TV shows still have actual stories while maintaining an overall narrative. It just feels like that’s missing in Picard.

[A Levine]

Originally Posted by arek

I remember them mentioning the potential for attack and that there were now ‘Rangers’ in the system to provide security. It seems like that could have been a plot point which was developed further rather than used in a superficial manner.

Most TV shows still have actual stories while maintaining an overall narrative. It just feels like that’s missing in Picard.

Facepalm. Go watch something that you think has an actual story, then. I don't know what else to say.

[A Levine]

Originally Posted by tier1dc

can't wait to see if you're carrying water for this show when they reveal that the double secret Romulan elites actually created the Borg.

I'd be fine with that. I'm sorry this isn't to your liking.

[IndySportsCards]

I'm enjoying the hell out of Picard.

"You owe me a ship Picard"