2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by packman80

Saw video last night of the terrorist in Portland throwing a molotov cocktail at cops. Police should have shot the person who threw it dead on the spot. These people are not protesting they are full on rioters Portland leaders need to grow some balls and decide 4 months of terrorism must stop.

They need to keep it up until November 3rd so they can keep blaming it on Trump.

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Society would probably be better off if 'no comment' was his default response to everything. He's no different than one of my friends spouting off about conspiracy theories. He just has a much bigger microphone.

I agree. Sometimes the best words are the ones not said. Sports should be sports and nothing else IMO.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

I agree. Sometimes the best words are the ones not said. Sports should be sports and nothing else IMO.

2020 the year so screwed up sports stars now are more concerned with social justice issues then playing sports as long as they still get their paychecks to play the sport though that's most important.

[Boo]

What is the end game of the protests/riots? When will they achieve whatever they want and stop? Or will this go on forever?

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by packman80

2020 the year so screwed up sports stars now are more concerned with social justice issues then playing sports as long as they still get their paychecks to play the sport though that's most important.

Yeah if I used my employers time to protest and talk politics, religion, etc. I probably wouldn't be getting a paycheck very long... but athletes are special.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Don't type that. The Karens and Beckys will come out with the threat of smashing the triangle.

Priceless coming from someone who has admitted to smashing triangle.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Being pulled over while driving and having someone roll up to your crib and ask if you own it aren't apples to apples scenarios. I've already agreed that staying cool is always the best response... always. But just because that's the best response doesn't mean this incident isn't the one that broke the camel's back for persona. We're being naive if we don't think racial profiling exists. Was it the case here? Maybe. Maybe not. I've already stated that I didn't know cops doing random stops to say "hi" was an actual thing until after my initial response. I've never had it happen to me or even heard of such a thing until some of the subsequent posts in response to persona's post. Maybe that happens in wealthy neighborhoods... I don't know.

Here's where I fork off from others in this thread... the response of "hey officer... yes I own this... here's my ID" is certainly a valid, reasonable response, but for me it's not the only acceptable response. It doesn't address why the cop stopped to ask a guy hanging outside with his kids if he owns the property. I'm going to assume persona wasn't doing anything to give the cop suspicion that he doesn't own the property. I'm also not suggesting that what the cop did was illegal. I'm suggesting it was a lack of self awareness... at best. What was the point of asking persona if he owned the property? What was he digging for? That would be my response to the cop: "Who wants to know?" "You? Why?" I don't care if you're a cop, the president, or Jesus... I don't want you on my property unless you have Amazon packages, so if you are coming on my property, your first question best not be, "do you own this home?" unless you have a real reason to be asking.

Who knows what the officers original intent was. I doubt he was randomly driving around looking for black people playing with their children in their yards to ask them if they live there.

There are many reasons an officer may want to know if he is talking to the owner of a particular property. Maybe there had been complaints about a strange car in the neighborhood, porch pirates, vandalism, garage/vehicle break ins, etc.and wanted to know if persona had noticed anything as well.

I had an officer knock on my door and asked me upfront if I owned the place when I came to the door. Seemed odd, but after that was out of the way he wanted to know if my Ring doorbell possibly captured a vehicle that drove by earlier.

Would it have been better if the officer rolled up and asked "Can I speak to the owner of this property?" Are we now upset because why did the officer assume I didn't own the house?

[TheHeel]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Priceless coming from someone who has admitted to smashing triangle.

Once. Over Trump Republican Party, QAnon wing misinformation photo about pedos.

We know you're down with racism.... but now you're down with protecting pedos? Some "devout Christian" you are.

[Viking6]

Originally Posted by Onions

I had an officer knock on my door and asked me upfront if I owned the place when I came to the door. Seemed odd, but after that was out of the way he wanted to know if my Ring doorbell possibly captured a vehicle that drove by earlier.

I have had the same thing happen to me. Asked me if i owned the residence, Asked me if i had security cameras, and then informed me there were some recent break ins in my neighborhood that day.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Once. Over Trump Republican Party, QAnon wing misinformation photo about pedos.

We know you're down with racism.... but now you're down with protecting pedos? Some "devout Christian" you are.

When proven wrong, attack the source. Color me surprised.

[TheHeel]

Originally Posted by cnewby

When proven wrong, attack the source. Color me surprised.

So you believe that Hillary Clinton was the ringleader for pedophilia in a DC pizzeria basement?

Color me surprised.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

So you believe that Hillary Clinton was the ringleader for pedophilia in a DC pizzeria basement?

Color me surprised.

deflect, deflect, deflect.

[TheFrenzy]

Salt Lake City, 13 year old with Asperger's shot (Disturbing footage)

I know, CNN sucks. I could probably link to the body cam footage on another site, but this is the first that came up.

This is Salt Lake City, Utah. One of the whitest places on earth. White officers chasing a white kid having an Asperger's breakdown. Clearly race has nothing to do with this shooting. The video even shows the officer talking calmly with the mother just a few moments beforehand.

So how do we interpret the video and the almost dozen shots fired?

Did the officer magically transform into a child-hunting monster during that 10 second chase?

Or does the presence/possible presence of a firearm (even with a 13-year old) mean that officers have to fall back on their instinctive training and go on hair-trigger alert?

Jacob Blake was shot seven times and everyone lost their minds. This white teen was shot eleven times. Clearly there's more here than "cops are racists."

Maybe instead of activists, athletes, and anarchists, we should be getting the people who collect the data on the dangers police face and design the trainings they undergo to get in front of the cameras and tell us why the police are trained to respond the way they do. It seems like that would be more productive than burning cities down.

[TheHeel]

More than 200 retired generals, admirals endorse Biden, including some who served under Trump

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/p...biden/2426700/

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

Yeah if I used my employers time to protest and talk politics, religion, etc. I probably wouldn't be getting a paycheck very long... but athletes are special.

They are not special but because their skill has such high demand, they have leverage. Most of us are easily replaceable by our employers, professional athletes, not so much. They are already the best of the best of the best.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by pac213up

They are not special but because their skill has such high demand, they have leverage. Most of us are easily replaceable by our employers, professional athletes, not so much. They are already the best of the best of the best.

"....sir!"

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Boo

What is the end game of the protests/riots? When will they achieve whatever they want and stop? Or will this go on forever?

Good question. A cop was fired, and is indicted. The community paid out 12 million. Yet, riots are happening, people shot. What does justice look like?

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Clark

Good question. A cop was fired, and is indicted. The community paid out 12 million. Yet, riots are happening, people shot. What does justice look like?

I wasn't just talking Louisville, I'm talking all over. What is the end game for the rioters in Portland? If they fully defund the police, do they stop?

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Boo

I wasn't just talking Louisville, I'm talking all over. What is the end game for the rioters in Portland? If they fully defund the police, do they stop?

I wish entire society rejected assault, robbery, rape, murder, etc. Unfortunately, too many scumbags walk among us.

I don't consider myself a pro-cop person, but I recognize the necessity.

The BLM/Antifa protestors calling for abolishment, are demanding an utopia that will never exist.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by Boo

What is the end game of the protests/riots? When will they achieve whatever they want and stop? Or will this go on forever?

There is no endgame for the rioters. They are just using this opportunity to destroy things because their parents never let them. They’ll do this as long as the mayors and governors stand down because they want to be re-elected.

Take for example the pedo that 17 year old shot in WI. Regardless of what you think of that situation, you have to agree that man did not care about BLM. He just wanted to break things. And he surely hated law enforcement, but only because he’s a criminal. Guys like this are the rioters.

[preakness]

Originally Posted by Boo

What is the end game of the protests/riots? When will they achieve whatever they want and stop? Or will this go on forever?

if the protesting stops after election then all will know it was all BS and just political vs Trump

it's not like the many things protestors SAY they are upset (problems with govt, society, so on) about should all disappear after the election

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Are you insinuating this mess started with Trump's presidency?
Tell me you're not that naive or stupid.
How many of these idiots protesting, rioting, looting, harassing restaurant goers, blocking roadways, are Trump/Republican supporters?
The playing dumb act isn't a good look for you. That is if you're playing I suppose.


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by babyfaceposey

This chaos is being caused by Democrats. Nice try. Electing more Democrats who would continue to pander to the domestic terrorists. People with common sense see through your lies.

Originally Posted by jk1937

he only did this after don lemon called on him to because his polling was dropping do to the riots. if that didn't happen i don't think he would have.

i own a small business and if a cop in my city shoots someone, justified or not, the last thing that should happen is i lose my business because people are outraged. i at least expect people in power to not support or look the other way at that kind of "protest".

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

No. I blame the people doing the rioting and the ones taking over restaurants.

These people will turn out right voters.

We shall see in 5 weeks.

The Democrat Derangement Syndrome is real

[Clark]

Originally Posted by preakness

if the protesting stops after election then all will know it was all BS and just political vs Trump

it's not like the many things protestors SAY they are upset (problems with govt, society, so on) about should all disappear after the election

The protesting will not stop if Biden is elected. He doesn't over rule the law.

George Floyd, Rashard Brooks, and others are still pending.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

We shall see in 5 weeks.

The Democrat Derangement Syndrome is real

And in 6 weeks the riots will commence. A cop will not be charged with murder somewhere in the US and the SJW's will go off.

I think some people are missing the point. The active and aligned people in the BLM or Antifa movement hate America and Western society.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

https://www.facebook.com/chelc.whita...06372460859243

RIP Breonna
This information was collected from the “leaked” police investigative notes and the comments made during the Attorney General’s press conference. This opinion can change when more info is released.
All day long I have been seeing posts of people that continue to claim that Breonna was asleep when murderous police entered the wrong apartment and indiscriminately murdered her. That is not true. The leaked police notes were favorable to the officers. Breonna was part of a drug conspiracy. Period. She rented cars for them to do their dirt. A dead body was discovered in the trunk of one of the cars she rented for them. She had 2 boyfriends. They are both drug dealers. She made a choice to handle the finances for them. Kenneth Walker was the boyfriend that was present with her the night she died.
The Attorney General stated that the local police department did not investigate the contents of the warrant. They passed that responsibility to the FBI and the FBI will release a report on that when they are ready to do so. The leaked documents stated that Boyfriend A opened a bank account and used Breonna’s address for that account. On the jail calls, he was trying to figure out how the police were lead to Breonna. He eventually figured out that the bank account was probably how the police found out about her involvement. In the leaked police report, the officers also stated that drug dealers, including boyfriend A, were often observed driving her cars while they engaged in drug transactions. Breonna was riding in the car with them on several occasions. They had a camera that observed their behavior and they claimed that it was clear that she was involved. On the jail calls, Boyfriend A admitted that Breonna helped with the drug money. He also stated that when the officers conducted the search warrant at Breonna’s apartment, they never found the money. Boyfriend A stated that if he could go to her house, he could go straight to the money. Apparently, the officers just didn’t find it.
They officers who served the warrant had nothing to do with the search warrant contents. Other officers developed the probable cause, got the warrant signed and gave it to the officers in question so that they could serve the warrant. They served several arrest and search warrants at one time. The officers in question were responsible for serving the search warrant at Breonna’s apartment. They were at the right apartment.
When the officers arrived at the apartment, the Attorney General stated that the officers’ supervisors told them to knock and announce, even though their policy states that they do not have to knock and announce. No knock warrants are dangerous and I don’t think the return on investment is worth it. It is irrelevant because the Attorney General stated that an independent corroborating witness stated that they heard the officers knocking and announcing their presence outside.
They served a search warrant at 3 am. There are very few instances where I can say that there is a need to serve a search warrant at 3 am. Evidence is not more important than lives. Serving a warrant at that hour creates confusion that is unnecessary. They received approval to do so anyway. When they knocked and announced, the officers stated that they didn’t receive a response. Because they had a search warrant, they had the legal authority to force entry into her apartment.
The Attorney General never mentioned if the officers were wearing police markings and that is obviously very important. Stating that the officers are plain clothes detectives isn’t enough. I am a plain clothes detective, but before I serve any warrant, I wear a vest that clearly identifies myself as an officer. I doubt that they went into the apartment without markings, but it is possible and that fact needs to be addressed.
The officers breach the door and Mattingly is the only officer that stepped inside of the apartment. Officer Cosgrove was standing in the doorway and also had a visual on the inside of the apartment. Officer Hankinson was outside of the apartment by a sliding glass door window and did NOT have a visual of the occupants of the apartment. THIS IS IMPORTANT. As soon as officer Mattingly entered the apartment he observed a male and female standing at the end of the hallway. The male, Kenneth Walker, was one of Breonna’s boyfriends. When Officer Mattingly entered the apartment, he immediately noticed Kenneth Walker standing at the end of the hallway pointing a gun at him. Kenneth immediately fired a weapon in the direction of the officers and struck Officer Mattingly in his leg. Kenneth admitted that he fired first and that is smart on his part. That way, he can claim self defense because he thought he was being burglarized. As soon as Kenneth Walker shot Mattingly, Mattingly and Cosgrove began firing back at Kenneth Walker. Mattingly and Cosgrove had a visual on the target so they fired their weapons in that direction. Officer Hankison began firing his weapon from OUTSIDE of the apartment and DID NOT HAVE A VISUAL of what was going on inside. All he knew was that his co-workers were being shot at and he began to fire back. This is why he was charged with wanton endangerment. He fired a weapon without being able to see what he was firing at to justify the action. A REASONABLE OFFICER WOULD FIND THAT ACTION UNREASONABLE. His bullets landed in an adjacent apartment and endangered a man, pregnant woman and a child. Sometimes officers shoot because the officers next to them are shooting. That is problematic. Officers can’t fire their weapon because other officers are firing their weapons. I don’t think he fired maliciously, but he still fired his weapon without identifying a target.
Mattingly and Cosgrove were being shot at and they returned fire in that direction. A REASONABLE OFFICER WOULD FIND THAT ACTION REASONABLE. The standard is judged by that of a reasonable officer. It is not judged by an angry citizen tired of 400 years of oppression. It is not judged by politicians pandering the black vote. It is judged by that of a reasonable officer. The officers knocked and announced their presence before entering the apartment. If you don’t believe that’s true, fine, you are entitled to believe that. This witness will come to light eventually and that will be dissected further.
Ballistics Report
The ballistics analysis completed by the local police department stated that Breonna was hit 6 times. They were unable to determine which officer’s bullet hit Breonna. 1 bullet hit her in a manner that would definitely cause death. Because they were unable to determine who fired the fatal bullet, the Attorney General asked the FBI to do a ballistics analysis. The FBI analysis determined that the fatal shot was fired by Officer Cosgrove. Remember, Officer Cosgrove was standing in the doorway and had a visual on the events that occurred in the apartment.
By law, if Mattingly and Cosgrove hit Breonna, they were justified. That doesn’t mean Breonna deserved to die, it means that under the circumstances presented, those officers acted in a manner consistent with what a reasonable officer would do. If someone is shooting at you, a natural response is to shoot back. Kenneth decided to shoot first and he did so with his girlfriend in the middle of the crossfire. When people fire their guns, they get tunnel vision. Tunnel vision is the state of mind where a person is only focused on whatever they perceive as a threat. The officers likely had tunnel vision on Kenneth and didn’t see Breonna. Kenneth probably had tunnel vision on the officers and didn’t see Breonna. When chaos ensues, this is a typical response.
When Kenneth was arrested that night, he went to jail and ran his mouth. Every attorney suggests that folks be quiet. He couldn’t. He was stressed out about what happened and he was in jail with the other co-conspirators in the drug conspiracy. Breonna’s other boyfriend was angry at Kenneth. He said that if he would have been with Breonna that night, she would not have been dead. He was angry that Kenneth shot at the police. Boyfriend A suggested that Kenneth is wild and that he should have never fired his gun. Because I have listened to hours of jail calls, it seems like Kenneth ran his mouth as if he knew the officers were there. THIS IS SPECULATION. After this event became a media sensation and he finally received an attorney, he stopped running his mouth. As he should. Kenneth and Breonna may not have known that the police were at their residence. My experience tells me that Kenneth knew who was at the door, panicked and started shooting. When police serve warrants at 3 am, the occupants are often disoriented and do things that they may not typically do. I can’t understand the necessity for them serving a search warrant at that hour. The way that Boyfriend A was talking, it seemed like Kenneth knew the police were out there. WE WILL NEVER KNOW THE TRUTH.
If the ballistics reports were conclusive and stated that Hankison fired the shots that killed Breonna, Hankison would have been charged with some level of homicide. Even if it were conclusive that Mattingly and Cosgrove fired the fatal shot, based on the law, they would have been justified. They knocked and announced their presence, a judge determined that they had probable cause to enter the apartment without consent, the were under fire as soon as they entered the apartment, Mattingly was shot in the leg first and Mattingly and Cosgrove acted reasonably in firing in the direction of Kenneth Walker. Hankison was the only one who fired without being able to see what he was shooting, causing rounds to enter a neighboring apartment recklessly.
Questions
Did Kenneth think the apartment was being burglarized? After his attorneys got to him and told him to stop talking in jail, he claimed he thought he was being burglarized. On the jail calls, Boyfriend A blamed Kenneth for shooting at the police and stated that Kenneth should have known better, insinuating that Kenneth knew law enforcement was at the door. We will never know the truth.
Were the officers wearing clearly identified vests? The attorney general did not address this fact and we need to know the answer.
How long did the officers wait after they allegedly announced their presence before the breached the door? This is an important question. This is why I believe that most warrants should not be served at 3 am. Especially search warrants. They could have waited until morning to serve the search warrant. They could have put a squad car in front of the apartment and turned the lights and sirens on to give them a chance to realize what was going on. They could have gotten on the P.A. system and asked them to come out. There doesn’t seem to be a reason that required them to rush into the apartment. You must account for the natural disorientation that can occur with banging on a person’s door at that hour. This is poor policy and poor training in my opinion. Did they have proof that they just got home or likely were still up, we don’t know. More insight would be helpful. Even if they did announce their presence, its reasonable for Breonna and Kenneth to not hear it if they were sleep and there was no reason to anticipate the police or anyone else being at their door.
Did the officer hear them inside running around panicking? This is important because it could show that they knew the police were at their door. The “scurry around the apartment” panic is a typical response when people are trying to figure out what they should do. It would be nice to know if the officers heard anything inside the apartment that made them believe that Breonna and Kenneth were aware that the police were outside.
I don’t understand why any man would allow his woman to answer any door at 3 am. Its her apartment and maybe she wanted to go answer it. Because Kenneth was a drug dealer, whoever was at the door, it was likely a person there for him. Whether it was someone trying to buy drugs, rob him or the police, it would likely be for him. I don’t understand how a man would even let his woman approach the door if he sensed any of those scenarios playing out. Maybe he was still trying to wake up and couldn’t process that. We will never know.
The deadly force standard is judged by that of what a reasonable officer would do in the same situation. It is reasonable for an officer to shoot in the direction of a person actively shooting at them. The officers had the legal right to be in the apartment. It is unfortunate that Breonna was caught in that crossfire, but the situation began because her boyfriend fired his gun with her standing right next to him. The district attorney even dropped the charges against Kenneth because it was reasonable for Kenneth to think he was being burglarized. Everyone involved acted reasonable, except Officer Hankison. That is why he was charged. Because the ballistics weren’t conclusive, they could not prove who fired the fatal shot into Breonna. It doesn’t mean that drywall is more important than Breonna or any of the other stuff folks are circulating. This is not comparable to Emmett Till or any other civil rights case. We have to stop comparing apples to dinosaurs based on PTSD and emotion.
Breonna was not innocent and she had committed crimes. She was absolutely involved in a drug conspiracy. She allowed them to use her for their benefit. She didn’t deserve to die. When playing with fire, a person will eventually get burned. This was unfortunate.
When doctors perform surgery and their patient dies, they are not charged criminally, but the family of the victim receives a civil settlement. It is an admission that things didn’t work out the way that they should have, but it doesn’t mean that the doctor did anything criminal. Doctors insert themselves into complicated situations and generally have favorable results. People will always die on operating tables and we must continue to improve the profession. It isn’t realistic to think that no one will ever die when a doctor is trying to do the right thing. Even though the doctor is trained, the doctor is still human. Cops are no different. Officers will always make mistakes. Training is insufficient everywhere. That is why defunding the police makes no sense. Even if officers had the best training in the world, there is no training that simulates how a person will react when real bullets are fired at them. You can’t charge an officer criminally when a person dies when the officers made reasonable decisions under stress. Her family deserved the money. Obviously, the money can’t bring her back and feel sorry for her family. We need more funding to try to train away human nature as much as possible. We need federal standards on police training. The issues with policing are generally bigger than any one officer.
If cops were charged criminally for making reasonable mistakes in the course of their police duties, who would be a cop? I hope these instances are reduced, but that will only happen with more funding and more training. Officers are pawns in a chess game. Policies, poor training, no mental health care, archaic policies, racism and a long list of other things create issues in departments across the country. We must continue to fight to improve the profession, but we must move forward intelligently and not emotionally. Black people have never been heard in this country like they are being heard now. Its truly unbelievable for most of us. Most black people walk around like a ticking time bomb because of all the racism we endure daily. No matter how that impacts us, we can’t receive credit for 400 years of oppression by demanding conviction of every cop who is involved in an officer involved shooting. Many people want revenge and they don’t care if the officer was right. I understand that feeling because this country was built on the premise that black lives don’t matter. It still doesn’t make it right. If it is the belief that officers should be charged criminally for making realistic mistakes, all cops should refuse to work and let criminals run wild. I have one foot out of the door myself.
You don’t get to call yourself an advocate for justice and ignore the fact that Breonna Taylor chose to be involved in a drug conspiracy. You don’t get to call yourself an advocate for justice and ignore the fact that Kenneth was a drug dealer. You don’t get to call yourself an advocate for justice and ignore the fact that the officers didn’t need to serve a measly search warrant at 3 am and rush in an apartment when the occupants may not have been oriented yet. This job is impossible. RIP Breonna Taylor.

I'm not super involved in this thread, but I appreciate this post. And I genuinely wonder how Lebron and Steve Kerr would respond if they read this (you know, actually paid attention to the facts of the situation). That's what I just don't understand. No one wants the truth. They only want what fits their narrative. These are sad times we are living in and so many people are being deceived.