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#326 | |
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What I requested is for Bron-busters like you to state the case as strongly as you can, then respond to it. True, it is not possible to steelman certain things. But given that there are so many people out there who *are* convinced Bron is the GOAT, it's not some beyond-the-pale position. Go ahead. State the strongest case for Bron that you can, as the most credible defender of Bron would state it. Try it out, make yourself credible for once. |
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#327 |
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#328 | |
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The Cavs had two first round picks in 2012 before the warriors picked Draymond Green in the second round at 35. So are Lebron fans blaming the Cavs on this one for not drafting well even before anyone knew Lebron would arrive on the team the second time? Warriors picked those players to complement Curry and were rewarded as Curry turned these lower draft picks into hall of famers. Who did LeGM pick in the draft to help his chances to win a ring? |
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#329 | |
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#330 | |
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#331 | |
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Good thing no one claimed he’s a great GM. They claimed he’s a great player. But at least we can agree they never put a worthy team around him
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#332 | |
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Curry hasn't been so successful at turning the Warriors more recent draft picks into stars. What side of the case do you take on the Warriors KD-superteam chips, while being consistent with your LeBall-busting? |
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#333 | |
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#334 |
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#335 | |
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That’s one of his biggest faults. Even a snake like Durant scorned Lebron DESPITE being fresh off a Cavs championship win because he knew Lebron wouldn’t make him a better player, so Durant wisely chose the warriors and made the correct choice. |
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#336 | ||
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I'm wondering if I'm asking too much. Doesn't anyone here wanna practice dialectic to the highest standards? |
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#337 | |
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Who has Lebron ever improved to become a HOF caliber player? The argument is Lebron has always been a virus to his teammates and organization, despite has supreme individual accolades. Lebron’s teammates who were NBA caliber players turned bad because being with Lebron made them worse. Thats why he was always an “underdog” despite always being the most talented player on the court, by far. Last edited by hermanotarjeta; 03-06-2024 at 12:25 PM. |
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#338 | |
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I can think of one poster who probably has the temperament and basketball-historical knowledge to take it up, but I haven't seen him around here for months now. Maybe too busy moderating at RealGM ![]() |
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#339 | |
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#340 | ||
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#341 |
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it's not an impossible task to play devils advocate (as you would call it), to place oneself in the shoes of a Clayton Crowley or the pro-Bron guy in the 'Trial of the GOAT' video, state their case as they would state it, and then to refute it (making the refutation all that more credible/strong).
You can't do it, can you |
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#342 |
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I guess it's not hard to call out dogmatic ideologues dead-tor-rights. They run hard and fast from challenges to steelman the opposing view. I've seen this routine before numerous times. (Try getting fans of Rand who constantly bash Kant when his name is brought up - "most evil man in history" - to steelman the opposing case. It's never gonna happen apparently. I can steelman Rand's ideas about as well as anyone not named Peikoff, and still I can't stand her anti-steelmanning mentality when it comes to Kant, Hegel, Mill, and many others. I've asked Randian Kant-bashers to imagine whether their characterizations would pass muster among Kant scholars, and the excuses they come up with to avoid answering the question are patently pathetic)
Last edited by GOATcards; 03-06-2024 at 12:34 PM. |
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#343 | |
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Jealousy is a form of hatred built on Insecurity. It's the unhappy and insecure people who show hatred, jealousy and try to bring others down. Instagram:icollector23, Flickr:https://www.flickr.com/photos/144335251@N08/albums |
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#344 | |
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#345 |
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yep
I think I just might have found a way to stop the monomaniacal weirdo in his tracks. Certainly not by calling him a monomaniacal weirdo. But apparently by just tapping the steelmanning sign. ![]() I think I have a working hypothesis generally speaking: few people outside of trained philosophers/scientists/lawyers are good at steelmanning. This is especially evident in the deplorable state of political "conversations" nowadays. Those who avidly call for steelmanning are few and far between, even though it should be a universal norm appealed to all the time, as a part of the common lexicon. (The same for "principle of charity," "Ideological Turing Test," "Rapoport/Dennett Rules," "Mill's principle of debate," and "dialectic.") It really isn't too much to ask that people adhere avidly, non-lazily, to this principle. Opinions are easy to hold; knowing one's opinion withstands the closest scrutiny is an achievement. If one doesn't know this about one's opinion, perhaps one should suspend judgment and abandon the opinion instead, or hold it with much hesitation and humility. |
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#346 | |
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He made them worse. |
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#347 |
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I don't know what LeBall-busting weirdos think about this, but in the context of GOAT debates if you are "drafting" a team with winning in mind, I don't know how Bron doesn't go way up high in that draft. I don't see the case for picking him over an MJ, though. If I wanna expend the energy I'll steelman the case for/against picking MJ #1, although the cases have kinda been made exhaustively before in various venues.
I think (provisionally, tentatively) I draft in the order appearing in my .sig. Maybe I'll have to go spend the time at the RealGM Player Comparison board to find out why Bron is #1 and Magic all the way at #10 despite Magic being "awarded" 5 FMVPs in this video which I'm about halfway through (up through '02): MJ not the real '96 Finals MVP? ![]() |
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#348 |
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#349 |
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He made them worse.. hence why they were no longer in the league without him? Very logical.
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#350 |
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