**Official Luka Doncic Thread**

[theleica]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I wouldn’t say nothing. But yes, when the trade happened they were in basically the same regular season position they were last year.

If they don’t lose Brunson, they don’t trade for Kyrie. That is the issue. And hey, maybe don’t trade for Wood and then refuse to give him minutes? Don’t sign McGee and bench his ass all season? The roster is an abomination.

Mavs have two priorities. Fire Kidd and sign and trade Kyrie.

It's been bad move compounded by bad move for years now and I don't really feel as though the Mavs are all of a sudden going to do a complete 180. Everything feels like a "gun to my head" decision with not much thought to the overall implications. Dare I say, the Mavericks have zero plan.

And yet there's the possibility of more disarray. They could lose their 1st rounder to the Knicks, they could sign Kyrie, and they could not sign Kyrie and lose him with no return.

[dkcardman]

Originally Posted by theleica

It's been bad move compounded by bad move for years now and I don't really feel as though the Mavs are all of a sudden going to do a complete 180. Everything feels like a "gun to my head" decision with not much thought to the overall implications. Dare I say, the Mavericks have zero plan.

And yet there's the possibility of more disarray. They could lose their 1st rounder to the Knicks, they could sign Kyrie, and they could not sign Kyrie and lose him with no return.

The sad truth is that the Mavs have managed themselves into a situation where their best move may be to sign Kyrie and trade Luka. I can't believe I am saying that. But I cannot imagine any team giving up anything of actual value for Kyrie. where with Luka you could get 2 good players and multiple 1sts. Sad thing for Luka is he'd be going from this team with no real assets to another team that just gave away all its assets to get him.

[oldgoldy97]

Funnychrome’s chance to corner the Luka market.

[KhalDrogo]

Cuban would never trade Luka at this point. That’s an admission of failure that’s almost entirely on him. He is the one who makes the decisions.

He made the terrible trade for KP.

He is the one who saved all his pennies for Giannis.

He is the one who hired Kidd (terrible coach that lucked into good fortune last year).

He is the one who wouldn’t sign Brunson to a very reasonable deal.

He is the one who traded for Kyrie.

There is no quick turnaround for this franchise. They are a bottom feeder. Hopefully Kyrie is gone next year. They’ll have a starting five of Luka, Green, Bullock, ?, and McGee. They’ll have a bench of THJ, Hardy, and who else? They are toast.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Well Dorian is averaging 7.2ppg on 35% shooting with a negative defensive BPM in 26 games for the Nets. So I think that would classify him as a scrub, even though I was told he was the Mavs second best player before the trade.

But he was a scrub who wasn’t asked to do much except defend and stand in the corner to shoot wide open threes.

So he wasn't very good at all then?....Were they all scrubs or weren't they? Dnic says DFS was the Mavs' best defender. You say he is a scrub. I can't keep up.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

So he wasn't very good at all then?....Were they all scrubs or weren't they? Dnic says DFS was the Mavs' best defender. You say he is a scrub. I can't keep up.

You’re smart enough to see what I’m saying. I’m sorry you feel the need to find a “gotcha” moment everywhere you go here.

[Ferg1945]

Hot take:

Luka Doncic = Kemba Walker/Russell Westbrook?

Plays GREAT when given the reigns to a team. THE alpha dog. All things run through you. You get your stats and the team does decent.

Gets traded to a "team" where you're no longer the alpha and you struggle to become part of that team. You're not the one making the decisions anymore... You're trying to fit in.

Am I the only one who thinks that? Just look at the All Star games. Everyone has fun and can mesh well together. Luka is always lost. Not his style and he can't control the pace. You kinda see it with Mavericks when Kyrie runs some plays. Luka just doesn't look comfortable.

Am I the only one who sees it?

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

Hot take:

Luka Doncic = Kemba Walker/Russell Westbrook?

Plays GREAT when given the reigns to a team. THE alpha dog. All things run through you. You get your stats and the team does decent.

Gets traded to a "team" where you're no longer the alpha and you struggle to become part of that team. You're not the one making the decisions anymore... You're trying to fit in.

Am I the only one who thinks that? Just look at the All Star games. Everyone has fun and can mesh well together. Luka is always lost. Not his style and he can't control the pace. You kinda see it with Mavericks when Kyrie runs some plays. Luka just doesn't look comfortable.

Am I the only one who sees it?

I see it.

[Asian62150]

Reminds me of Buffet's idea that everyone wants to get rich quick. No one wants to get rich slowly.

Cuban wants to turn the Mavs into a contender overnight and put band-aids on everything.

All of these missteps (bad trades, bad contracts) set the Mavs back because in a lot of cases, they're trading their most valuable building blocks, which are draft picks. So now the Kyrie debacle will set them back even more.

Big picture Luka turned 24 a little over a month ago. If any competent governor/GM tears it down to the studs and just keeps Luka, the Mavs can be a contender in 3-4 years. Might even be sooner if they really hit on a pick or two.

Question is if the Mavs are willing to build it right and if Luka is willing to be part of that process.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

Hot take:

Luka Doncic = Kemba Walker/Russell Westbrook?

Plays GREAT when given the reigns to a team. THE alpha dog. All things run through you. You get your stats and the team does decent.

Gets traded to a "team" where you're no longer the alpha and you struggle to become part of that team. You're not the one making the decisions anymore... You're trying to fit in.

Am I the only one who thinks that? Just look at the All Star games. Everyone has fun and can mesh well together. Luka is always lost. Not his style and he can't control the pace. You kinda see it with Mavericks when Kyrie runs some plays. Luka just doesn't look comfortable.

Am I the only one who sees it?

To be fair to Westbrook though, he's been to multiple conference finals and a NBA Finals as the #2 to Durant so he's proven he can be a valuable asset as a #2 in the past. That time is long gone now obviously, but they were championship contenders until KD left

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

Hot take:

Luka Doncic = Kemba Walker/Russell Westbrook?

Plays GREAT when given the reigns to a team. THE alpha dog. All things run through you. You get your stats and the team does decent.

Gets traded to a "team" where you're no longer the alpha and you struggle to become part of that team. You're not the one making the decisions anymore... You're trying to fit in.

Am I the only one who thinks that? Just look at the All Star games. Everyone has fun and can mesh well together. Luka is always lost. Not his style and he can't control the pace. You kinda see it with Mavericks when Kyrie runs some plays. Luka just doesn't look comfortable.

Am I the only one who sees it?

A few things:

His individual talent doesn't fully convey into a sum of all the team's parts.

That being said, he's 24 and he's such a talent that there's still time to figure it out before he becomes "just" James Harden or Tracy McGrady.

So the question is going to be: Is he the guy who can look himself in the mirror and acknowledge that there needs to be a certain upgrade?

[minnesotachill]

I've always seen Luka's size and style of play similar to James Harden


Houston was successful with D'antoni running the show. Let him do his thing in Dallas.

Get Luka in shape, resign Kyrie, add a few elite 3 point shooters and build an offensive powerhouse.

[rustywest]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

Reminds me of Buffet's idea that everyone wants to get rich quick. No one wants to get rich slowly.

Cuban wants to turn the Mavs into a contender overnight and put band-aids on everything.

All of these missteps (bad trades, bad contracts) set the Mavs back because in a lot of cases, they're trading their most valuable building blocks, which are draft picks. So now the Kyrie debacle will set them back even more.

Big picture Luka turned 24 a little over a month ago. If any competent governor/GM tears it down to the studs and just keeps Luka, the Mavs can be a contender in 3-4 years. Might even be sooner if they really hit on a pick or two.

Question is if the Mavs are willing to build it right and if Luka is willing to be part of that process.

Nice post. That's how you build. I always say how long did it take MJ? LeBron? Giannis to ring up? Kobe was faster but he was with one of most dominant players in history.

And they were trending upwards linear up until this year. The fork in the road was trading Zinger. Personally I would've kept him but if you do trade him you can't take back a Bertans style monstrosity of a contract. The team has desperately needed a dynamic forward, triple threat player to pair with Luka. Not like Wood. Like a Julius Randle, B.Ingram type player. Use a KD, Westbrook model...

You can't forget about entitled fans either. Just wade through this thread the past few years and you will absorb an enormous amount of knee-jerk, super reactionary, and super short attention spanned vitriol directed at essential strangers. Cuban sits with the fans, I'd imagine hes been peppered with numerous ear-beatings from attendees. Certain types of fans want instant gratification, and somewhat unfortunately, those are the ones always heard loudest in today's world. Championships are HARD - They don't grow on trees. I'm sure he feels the pressure of impatient, impulsive, and instant grat fans! However, he def needs something fresh with his approach toward the team. Its a culture thing in Dallas

I remember what you said to me about Brunson though LoL

[Ferg1945]

Originally Posted by Chris P

To be fair to Westbrook though, he's been to multiple conference finals and a NBA Finals as the #2 to Durant so he's proven he can be a valuable asset as a #2 in the past. That time is long gone now obviously, but they were championship contenders until KD left

That's when he was the clear #2. Once he became the #1 he wasn't able to adjust to being the #2 again. That's why he was on a different teams every year for like 4 consecutive years.

He seems to be doing better with the Clippers. I think the Lakers have been his motivation. They did him dirty.

[rustywest]

Originally Posted by dkcardman

The sad truth is that the Mavs have managed themselves into a situation where their best move may be to sign Kyrie and trade Luka. I can't believe I am saying that. But I cannot imagine any team giving up anything of actual value for Kyrie. where with Luka you could get 2 good players and multiple 1sts. Sad thing for Luka is he'd be going from this team with no real assets to another team that just gave away all its assets to get him.

Yeah, that's crazy to think about huh. Not there yet. They should def try to keep Kyrie because he can play basketball, a triple threat player. Not the forward that I think they need but its something. Problem, that Kyrie won't want to stay in Dallas on a one year max contract, and that's all any prudent GM could possibly in sound mind offer him right now. I'd offer him a one year max or 2 years with stipulations. But something tells me Kyrie is going to balk at that...

See what's out there, media trying to push him out of the League but talent trumps. He will have landing spots

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by rustywest

Nice post. That's how you build. I always say how long did it take MJ? LeBron? Giannis to ring up? Kobe was faster but he was with one of most dominant players in history.

And they were trending upwards linear up until this year. The fork in the road was trading Zinger. Personally I would've kept him but if you do trade him you can't take back a Bertans style monstrosity of a contract. The team has desperately needed a dynamic forward, triple threat player to pair with Luka. Not like Wood. Like a Julius Randle, B.Ingram type player. Use a KD, Westbrook model...

You can't forget about entitled fans either. Just wade through this thread the past few years and you will absorb an enormous amount of knee-jerk, super reactionary, and super short attention spanned vitriol directed at essential strangers. Cuban sits with the fans, I'd imagine hes been peppered with numerous ear-beatings from attendees. Certain types of fans want instant gratification, and somewhat unfortunately, those are the ones always heard loudest in today's world. Championships are HARD - They don't grow on trees. I'm sure he feels the pressure of impatient, impulsive, and instant grat fans! However, he def needs something fresh with his approach toward the team. Its a culture thing in Dallas

I remember what you said to me about Brunson though LoL

Haha. What did I say? That they shouldn't over pay for him? I still stand by that (but to a lesser degree---that's if I'm not required to be an extremist here). They should have signed him back in Jan. But I think they should have used those resources better in the summer.

Is signing Brunson better than what they have now? Of course. But it could/should have been even better than just re-signing Brunson, if that makes sense.

I'd rather build the right way starting this summer than pair Luka and Brunson the next 3-4 years and have so much of the cap taken up by just those two.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

Hot take:

Luka Doncic = Kemba Walker/Russell Westbrook?

Plays GREAT when given the reigns to a team. THE alpha dog. All things run through you. You get your stats and the team does decent.

Gets traded to a "team" where you're no longer the alpha and you struggle to become part of that team. You're not the one making the decisions anymore... You're trying to fit in.

Am I the only one who thinks that? Just look at the All Star games. Everyone has fun and can mesh well together. Luka is always lost. Not his style and he can't control the pace. You kinda see it with Mavericks when Kyrie runs some plays. Luka just doesn't look comfortable.

Am I the only one who sees it?

I don't really see it.

I see him on the world stage taking a bunch of slovenians from the hills and destroying the world in a team fashion as the alpha dog.

I DO see him struggling with NBA's culture, as would I. Aside from the paycheck and playing hoops I'd hate to be on an NBA roster. Probably get in a fight every day.

[TSonn]

The thing about the Harden comparison is Harden could've been a top 10 guy all time if he didn't suuuuuuuuck in the playoffs. Luka has already shown us that he actually takes his game to another level in the playoffs and has a lot of clutch gene in him the higher the stakes. So if the knock on him is he's James Harden but he's also awesome in the playoffs? Sign me up.

This season is the first time in Luka's professional career that he's had a truly disappointing season so I'm excited to see how he responds. He doesn't seem like the type of dude who's cool with losing (another Harden knock) so I'm hoping he comes back next year more focused and fit than ever - with hopefully a nice FRP to play with and some rebounding and rim protection.

[rustywest]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

Haha. What did I say? That they shouldn't over pay for him? I still stand by that (but to a lesser degree---that's if I'm not required to be an extremist here). They should have signed him back in Jan. But I think they should have used those resources better in the summer.

Is signing Brunson better than what they have now? Of course. But it could/should have been even better than just re-signing Brunson, if that makes sense.

I'd rather build the right way starting this summer than pair Luka and Brunson the next 3-4 years and have so much of the cap taken up by just those two.

You said Luka earned Brunson that contract and I said nonsense, Brunson earned Brunson that contract. Just splitting hairs though

It was a tough spot for the Mavs no doubt. But you gotta retain a 26 year old 2nd round hit like that when you build the right way

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by rustywest

You said Luka earned Brunson that contract and I said nonsense, Brunson earned Brunson that contract. Just splitting hairs though

It was a tough spot for the Mavs no doubt. But you gotta retain a 26 year old 2nd round hit like that when you build the right way

Fair. Maybe I should have said Luka helped Brunson get paid. Ricks kid definitely put in the work. He was Mr Basketball here in IL but I didn’t think he would be this good in the Association.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

Hot take:

Luka Doncic = Kemba Walker/Russell Westbrook?

Plays GREAT when given the reigns to a team. THE alpha dog. All things run through you. You get your stats and the team does decent.

Gets traded to a "team" where you're no longer the alpha and you struggle to become part of that team. You're not the one making the decisions anymore... You're trying to fit in.

Am I the only one who thinks that? Just look at the All Star games. Everyone has fun and can mesh well together. Luka is always lost. Not his style and he can't control the pace. You kinda see it with Mavericks when Kyrie runs some plays. Luka just doesn't look comfortable.

Am I the only one who sees it?

No, you're not. I've been weary of his trajectory since 2021 and in 2022 I thought he peaked. I posted this in June 2021:

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Stepping away from all of the overblown reactions and blame-gaming....

Just as people are rightfully concerned about Giannis becoming one-dimensional come playoff time, or Zion being able to carry his weight around for 10+ years, there should be concerns with Luka as well. Not specifically with him, per se, but with how his career has gone so far.

I hear a lot of clamoring for other All-Stars to play along side him, but who knows if that will actually make him better? He has played a VERY ball dominant position since day one, essentially needing the ball in his hands, but is that what will lead to team success? As you saw in the second halves of games 6 and 7, he was gassed; passive; essentially ineffective. Sure, he ended up with 40-whatever points but when it mattered (when the Clips were building an insurmountable lead), he was no where to be found. That's the reality. He has too much on his shoulders now, but will he be willing to give that up in order to have more team success?

Sure, he's only 22, but a) he had 3 years of professional basketball before coming to the NBA (that's a lot of wear and tear for 22) and b) the Mavs are years away from putting together a real playoff roster. The good news is, he's 22 and a lot of great players' careers are coming to an end. It'll be interesting if he'll be the one to take the torch.

[drobfan8]

The problem with the Kyrie situation is this.

If you pay him and give him 3/4 years, he's still the most unreliable player that never puts together a full season. He hasn't come through for any team since 2016.

If you sign and trade him, you are not getting much back.

They need to dump Bertans and Bullock so badly.

What a mess. First time I've thought Luka should demand a trade.

He needs to team up with an elite big. They ain't getting one back that's for sure.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

The problem with the Kyrie situation is this.

If you pay him and give him 3/4 years, he's still the most unreliable player that never puts together a full season. He hasn't come through for any team since 2016.

If you sign and trade him, you are not getting much back.

They need to dump Bertans and Bullock so badly.

What a mess. First time I've thought Luka should demand a trade.

He needs to team up with an elite big. They ain't getting one back that's for sure.

Porzingis was 96th percentile in EPM and EW, and 26th in the league in Raptor WAR this year... the question is how can Luka learn to play with others. How many stars / semi-stars will he rifle through before people start to realize it ain't the other guys that's the problem?

If you notice a trend of players leaving Luka and immediately playing better elsewhere, well guess what?

[Ferg1945]

Originally Posted by daeve

Porzingis was 96th percentile in EPM and EW, and 26th in the league in Raptor WAR this year... the question is how can Luka learn to play with others. How many stars / semi-stars will he rifle through before people start to realize it ain't the other guys that's the problem?

If you notice a trend of players leaving Luka and immediately playing better elsewhere, well guess what?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by daeve

Porzingis was 96th percentile in EPM and EW, and 26th in the league in Raptor WAR this year... the question is how can Luka learn to play with others. How many stars / semi-stars will he rifle through before people start to realize it ain't the other guys that's the problem?

If you notice a trend of players leaving Luka and immediately playing better elsewhere, well guess what?

Are you just going to ignore KP’s biggest problem with the Mavs like you always do?

2019-20: missed 18/75 regular season games, missed final three playoff games
2020-21: missed 29/72 regular season games
2021-22: missed 22/56 regular season games w/ DAL, missed 11/28 regular season games w/ WAS

So congrats to KP for only missing 17 games this season. Reliability is the best ability. KP doesn’t have it. He had to go.