10 cases Leaf Greatest Hits Basketball

[baskettrader]

Originally Posted by jdhaugh11

Now comparing this to some of the recent Super Break cases I have seen, this Leaf product is 100 times better. At least with this product you know you are getting close to if not slightly more than what you put into it.

Exactly and this is why I somewhat (!) like Leaf. But still, I now saw dozens of cases opened and still not a single (!) Jordan Rookie which is kind of odd or - in other words - just ridiculous. Then at least put some kind of odds on your sell sheet.

[jdhaugh11]

If this product had a handful of huge hits, then it would have been a homerun. I mean in 10 cases I would have expected at least 1 card that would sell for more than $1,000.

[Jsquared123]

Has anyone seen the PSA 9 Jordan RC on the sell sheet surface yet?

Heck, I'd be happy with a decent 7 sitting in one of my cases.

[Beavers98]

Saw this break in the group break section..I think there are some really nice cards there!!

I've seen way less value from many $1,000+ breaks of other product


..

[LEAF]

Originally Posted by jbittma1

I just expect more for the money if it is supposed to be "greatest hits" Lately Leaf and Brian have been tossing out crap because they know it will sell. Leaf has gotten to the point they are producing the same "level" of product as Panini and have started to care less about the client.

Ask anyone who has complained about the BS that was in RookieRetro. Saw a guy get $250 out of his case.

Appreciate the feedback, but I find this post laughable...
The ROI across greatest hits print run is well over 80% (close to 90%)...
If you don't think this is reasonable, NO REPACK PRODUCT WILL EVER REPLICATE THIS...

As far as rookie retro goes, please send me a link to that case... I find that extremely unlikely... BG

[LEAF]

Originally Posted by jdhaugh11

Based on all the cases I have seen ripped of this product, it looks like each case in consistent. Meaning no case is a huge money maker, yet no case is a huge loser. So if you spend $1,100 on a case of this stuff, don’t expect to flip the cards for a nice product. You would probably return between $800 and at best $1,500 from what I have seen.
This product is geared toward collectors that just want the big hit to put in their collection and not have all the fluff of common cards.
Now comparing this to some of the recent Super Break cases I have seen, this Leaf product is 100 times better. At least with this product you know you are getting close to if not slightly more than what you put into it.

Thanks for thoughtful analysis... Nice change in pace around here ;-)

BG

[LEAF]

Originally Posted by baskettrader

Exactly and this is why I somewhat (!) like Leaf. But still, I now saw dozens of cases opened and still not a single (!) Jordan Rookie which is kind of odd or - in other words - just ridiculous. Then at least put some kind of odds on your sell sheet.

Jordan rookies are not remotely as frequent as Jordan or Lebron autos in this release... Prices of all grades are skyrocketing....

This product was designed to be a more steady safe ride (not feast of famine, which results in 300 page threads as we've recently seen)..

[cassijon]

i havent seen a single jordan RC and i dont believe ive seen any jordan or lebron autos in their NBA uni's either, which is disappointing...

However, i would much rather open this, than and of the latest superbreak products. at least with this, ive seen most cases hit between 70-85% ROI. hell i had 4 spots in this 10 case break. 2 #6 picks, #7 and #9 and i think i'll get at least $200 on it. thats not bad at all for those spots

[kbeast89]

The Kobe distinctive ink auto in case 2 is mine and FS/FT if anyone is interested!

[paul06901]

Originally Posted by LEAF

Thanks for thoughtful analysis... Nice change in pace around here ;-)

BG

Brian, it must be difficult as a company who produces repacks. It seems nobody will be happy unless you're giving out an MJ auto in every single pack. Everyone wants ROI to be at least 150%. Everyone wants to try and make money off of cards.


What's funny about all of this bad-talk about the re-pack companies ... it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. People still buy them at an incredible clip. Like I've said before, I could create a repack product with only 10 boxes. One has an MJ auto and the rest have a piece of dog crap. Because, it seems, most people in this hobby are addicted gamblers ... I bet it'd sell out!

Point being, the gamblers are here ... and they're not going anywhere. They complain about "ROI" always. These are guys who open 10's of thousands of dollars worth of wax, and immediately list everything on eBay for sale. They're in it for the gamble only. They could care less about the cards. This is an easier, more un-regulated form of gambling for gambling addicts.


I haven't even opened any Leaf repack products, but from what I can see, they deliver exactly what one should expect. And people buy them no matter what. So even if they didn't deliver, people will still buy them. It's a sickness that wax-breakers have. It's a mental issue, an insatiable craving to gamble, and expect to always come out winning.


Go to the casino and complain after you place a $100 bet on BlackJack and lose ... see how that goes!

Buying sportscard products, everyone should do their due diligence BEFORE buying. There should be no fault on the manufacturer/company unless things are blatantly misrepresented or misleading.



Back to my point.

Brian, you are doing things right. You are delivering great value in every box. The problem is, the hobby is fully of gamblers who expect to "make money" on everything. Your product delivers more than can be said for mostly any other product. The people who complain about ROI are likely guys who are simply looking for an outlet to vent given the fact that they are addicted to opening wax which is a completely losing proposition on-average. They have to be mad at something or someone, and certainly not themselves for spending thousands on a gamble and losing that gamble.

People love to sit back and complain about "ROI" and "value" coming from products ... yet I'd dare to say the sportscard industry is likely at an all-time high for the amount of money that passes through. The secondary market is so watered down it's disgusting. Being completely flooded by Panini & UD.


But Panini, UD, Leaf, etc. They are businesses. And bottom line is, the buyers are there no matter what they sell and how they sell it. The fault can never fall on the sellers ... the buyers should do their due diligence before buying or simply not buy at all if they are unhappy with anything. The problem is, sellers have zero pressure because there are so many gambling-addict big-wallet buyers who buy multiple cases of every release ... lined up for presells .... the manufacturers/sellers have zero pressure to change anything.




Brian's product at least has shown consistency throughout the breaks we've seen over the years from all of the repack products. People need to simply stop trying to open wax for PROFIT and look to open products for FUN or to GET OUT OF THE HOBBY! :eatit:

[kmunch811]

I personally have enjoyed looking at other peoples breaks of this, just joined 2 hit drafts, and am really considering a box of my own.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks to be the best odds (maybe ever) to land a Jordan or Lebron auto. (With the previous probably being UD All time greats basketball which was a 1 in 6 for MJ)

As someone who doesn't have an auto from either of those players...this product is a very appealing one....It's loaded with stars as well.

Great work on this Leaf!

[CARDGUY123]

Originally Posted by paul06901

Brian, it must be difficult as a company who produces repacks. It seems nobody will be happy unless you're giving out an MJ auto in every single pack. Everyone wants ROI to be at least 150%. Everyone wants to try and make money off of cards.


What's funny about all of this bad-talk about the re-pack companies ... it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. People still buy them at an incredible clip. Like I've said before, I could create a repack product with only 10 boxes. One has an MJ auto and the rest have a piece of dog crap. Because, it seems, most people in this hobby are addicted gamblers ... I bet it'd sell out!

Point being, the gamblers are here ... and they're not going anywhere. They complain about "ROI" always. These are guys who open 10's of thousands of dollars worth of wax, and immediately list everything on eBay for sale. They're in it for the gamble only. They could care less about the cards. This is an easier, more un-regulated form of gambling for gambling addicts.


I haven't even opened any Leaf repack products, but from what I can see, they deliver exactly what one should expect. And people buy them no matter what. So even if they didn't deliver, people will still buy them. It's a sickness that wax-breakers have. It's a mental issue, an insatiable craving to gamble, and expect to always come out winning.


Go to the casino and complain after you place a $100 bet on BlackJack and lose ... see how that goes!

Buying sportscard products, everyone should do their due diligence BEFORE buying. There should be no fault on the manufacturer/company unless things are blatantly misrepresented or misleading.



Back to my point.

Brian, you are doing things right. You are delivering great value in every box. The problem is, the hobby is fully of gamblers who expect to "make money" on everything. Your product delivers more than can be said for mostly any other product. The people who complain about ROI are likely guys who are simply looking for an outlet to vent given the fact that they are addicted to opening wax which is a completely losing proposition on-average. They have to be mad at something or someone, and certainly not themselves for spending thousands on a gamble and losing that gamble.

People love to sit back and complain about "ROI" and "value" coming from products ... yet I'd dare to say the sportscard industry is likely at an all-time high for the amount of money that passes through. The secondary market is so watered down it's disgusting. Being completely flooded by Panini & UD.


But Panini, UD, Leaf, etc. They are businesses. And bottom line is, the buyers are there no matter what they sell and how they sell it. The fault can never fall on the sellers ... the buyers should do their due diligence before buying or simply not buy at all if they are unhappy with anything. The problem is, sellers have zero pressure because there are so many gambling-addict big-wallet buyers who buy multiple cases of every release ... lined up for presells .... the manufacturers/sellers have zero pressure to change anything.




Brian's product at least has shown consistency throughout the breaks we've seen over the years from all of the repack products. People need to simply stop trying to open wax for PROFIT and look to open products for FUN or to GET OUT OF THE HOBBY! :eatit:

Well said! I am a gambler but it is more about fun for me. I am happy to get my junk autos in a box I buy. Would I love to hit a monster sure who wouldn't. But I am not going to come in here and Nash a product because I didn't get so much back. That's the game don't like it don't play.

[paul06901]

Originally Posted by CARDGUY123

Well said! I am a gambler but it is more about fun for me. I am happy to get my junk autos in a box I buy. Would I love to hit a monster sure who wouldn't. But I am not going to come in here and Nash a product because I didn't get so much back. That's the game don't like it don't play.

Thanks! That's the way to look at it and I agree with what you said. That's how everyone should feel.


The problem is, people are ripping open thousands upon thousands of dollars of wax, and every card they pull is simply either a $50 bill, $100 bill, etc. to them.

They don't even care about the card itself, just "what's it worth?!!!!" So they can throw it on eBay ASAP.

That's why these people are so upset about the ROI. People who open wax for enjoyment do not complain, because they understand the gamble and fully understand they are LIKELY going to lose money. ROI shouldn't even be thought about or mentioned, ever!


When people used to actually collect, they'd pull cards and either PC them or would keep them to trade. Now, it seems like about 99% of guys who open product are just gambling for a big hit to try and make money.

I also see that translating into how guys are bashing some Panini/UD sets. People posting box/case breaks here on Blowout and DISAPPOINTED after they pulled a ton of really nice on-card autos of veterans, HOFers and legends ... why?! BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T "MAKE THEIR MONEY BACK!"

It's pretty sad, IMO :eatit:

[mustangjj909]

My only complaint in this product is that the booklets are not showing the autos and the patches. I was in case 6 in the 10 case break and people wanted to see the patches on the booklet. Maybe for next time the booklets can be incased in a booklet hard case showing the auto or jersey/patches.

[tmar214]

Originally Posted by LEAF

Appreciate the feedback, but I find this post laughable...
The ROI across greatest hits print run is well over 80% (close to 90%)...
If you don't think this is reasonable, NO REPACK PRODUCT WILL EVER REPLICATE THIS...

As far as rookie retro goes, please send me a link to that case... I find that extremely unlikely... BG

Yea I think I was a little hard on you guys in my original post. Definitely great value returned on a consistent basis in these. I think you guys did great in having a strong variety of star players in every box. definitely an interesting product and nothing similar is on the market.

[bma0215]

Lots of great insights here. So that everyone here takes my opinion in the proper perspective, I am talking from the point of view of a long-time COLLECTOR.

1. Most, about 90%, of my personal collections are pack-pulled from way back 1995ish. The rest are acquired either via trade or were purchased. IF someone goes through my bucket, it will be a huge collection from way back 1995 to the present, with lots more in my music room and in my office vault.

2. I never flip or sell cards to make money. I let go of them either to get those that I am chasing, or to help someone complete their goals. Sometimes, I flat-out reject offers since the card is either a 1/1 or something sentimental to me.

3. I always feel a loss, some very deep, whenever I let go of a personal collection, not because of its value, but more so because of the story behind my having it. It may be my first ever PC player with a logoman, or a tag, or simply a base card that I have long been looking for.

4. And when I finally let them go, Ebay or other historical sales are just a fraction of my basis for value. I equally take into account --
a. How difficult it was for me to acquire it,
b. The amount of care that I put into the card, and
c. The condition of the card/autograph/patch look. The only other factor that goes into my pricing is jersey #; none of that baloney 1/xx or xx/xx (unless, again, it's the jersey number).

5. So, more often than not, buyers find my prices "expensive" or "off tangent" simply because they don't understand where I'm coming from. As a buyer myself, the only other question that I input in my decision besides Ebay prices is "how badly do I want/need that card?"

The next question is, What influences me to choose which case to buy (I rarely open just boxes for the obvious reason that I WANT the case hit!). First, "Can I likely hit the card/cards that I want?" And second, "Can I use the cards that I don't want to trade/sell for cards that I want?" Since I collect HOFers, it was a no brainer for this Leaf product.

Back to the OP's group break. I did join OP's break in 3 of the 10 cases. Unfortunately, I landed a pick #5 in one of the cases, with #2, and #3 in the next 2 cases. An opportunity came to sell the 3 picks altogether, and I decided to use the money to add to a purchase of 2 cases. I think I made the right decision. It will be a separate topic in this Break section.

Well, that's it. Apologies for the long post. I still am happy to be part of this forum despite the debbie downers who have no better things to say. I have had the opportunity to meet great guys who are really passionate about their hobby. And it's in this place that I got to see awesome collections that I would never see in other hobby sites.

Keep the hobby alive and kicking!!!

[lisu]

I had KTAuthentics open me a case of this last night - very solid.

BGS 9/10 David Robinson Immac Patch Auto
BGS 9/10 Retro Skybox Auto Julius Erving
BGS 9/9 Sp Authentic Lebron James "The Chosen One"
Steph Curry Auto

BGS 9/10 Kyrie Irving (.5 away from a 9.5) Auto
BGS 9.5/10 Larry Bird Immac Patch Auto
BGS 9.5/10 Kevin Durant Immac Patch Auto
Kevin Love Immac Patch Auto

I was happy with what I got.

[Cwalk2323]

I got 300 to spend on a resale card for a show coming up if you wanna set me up one 1-2 cards

[cassijon]

Originally Posted by Cwalk2323

I got 300 to spend on a resale card for a show coming up if you wanna set me up one 1-2 cards

you got pm

[Cocheese45]

Originally Posted by LEAF

Appreciate the feedback, but I find this post laughable...
The ROI across greatest hits print run is well over 80% (close to 90%)...
If you don't think this is reasonable, NO REPACK PRODUCT WILL EVER REPLICATE THIS...

As far as rookie retro goes, please send me a link to that case... I find that extremely unlikely... BG

I think you missed the point of his post and most of the posts in this particular thread. If people are paying for a $600/box product, they expect huge chase cards. Out of the ten cases the OP listed, was there a single card there worth more than maybe $400?

We get it, most cases have about 80% of the purchase price in value, but that's nothing to brag about. The point is there should be at least the possibility at a huge hit. Other companies put out some brutal products where you're likely to only get 10-20% ROI, but there are chase cards worth thousands. Bowman baseball products are accessible at around $50/box or $150/jumbo box and there are potential $5,000+ cards. Your product is $600/box minimum...there should be at least a few $10,000+ cards to chase.

If I buy a similarly priced product like Immaculate, more often than not I'm not going to get 80% ROI, but that's because I'm chasing some $10,000 cards. Trading in $600 for $500 in cards isn't a chase, and it's not fair to expect customers to just buy these products for the "fun" of opening them. Some of your other products, like Rookie Retro or Best of, have had some great chase cards, but if the sticking point with this product is that customers have a better chance at not losing as much as other products, that's not good. And instead of being dismissive of legit concerns and criticisms, maybe you should try addressing them by improving your products, not just dismissing them as laughable.