need help!!!!!!!

[og_monster]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

The guy returning the cards issue is when he asked about condition the seller said it was great. While it's not using the word gem or mint it's saying there are few flaws if any. If you spend that much on a card and see an issue after the seller said there weren't any you'd be pissed. I know I would and I have on lower end cards.

Whether if does or doesn't effect the grade the seller should have disclosed this. If he would've said it was great but had a dimple then he wouldn't have this issue. He was asked and left it out.

Buyer asked for return and seller said no and accused him I having buyers remorse. Then the seller said to figure put something else bc he didn't have the money to refund him. Buyer said ok and put a number on it. Seller said it was too much and started this thread not mentioning the part where he declined the request for a full refund.

Unless the buyer is making that part up I know who I agree with.

Yes I know I would be too but not over a dimple I got a harper on here over a week ago that had a dimple but that was the only flaw so I didn't say anything if it was a severe scratch or dinged Conner I would have but yes he should have mention it but he didn't but at least he didn't liable it as near mint or mint. Coyne what u could do is sell it on eBay. Or try selling it here but explain what's going on and that it will be ship after receiving... Idk gl tho hope you can resolve it worth your buyer.

[jewcer2k5]

Originally Posted by og_monster

Yes I know I would be too but not over a dimple I got a harper on here over a week ago that had a dimple but that was the only flaw so I didn't say anything if it was a severe scratch or dinged Conner I would have but yes he should have mention it but he didn't but at least he didn't liable it as near mint or mint. Coyne what u could do is sell it on eBay. Or try selling it here but explain what's going on and that it will be ship after receiving... Idk gl tho hope you can resolve it worth your buyer.

What would you consider "great"? It's certainly above near mint. To me near lint is good. Mint is great. Pristine is amazing/awesome.

A dimple may or may not grade at mint. Safe to say it would be nm+ at best.

I too hope you guys can work this out

[Texas2Pacards]

iv had imperfect cards before (who hasnt) but just be honest. When i sell a card i disclose every thing i can about the item, iv bought from a fair amount of people on this forum and all had been honest up to this point, (they stated if it had flaws like refractor lines and dimples etc) some i graded some i didnt, some came back lower and some came back 9.5 and even 10 10, but just let me know there is a issue with the card

[msterling21]

I sent in a bunch of high end cards to psa for slabbing even though I know they will come back 8.5 or 9 because of some flaws. I bought them raw. I'm not comfortable selling raw in the hundreds of dollars for this reason. Even though I'll lose some money in the end. That's the way the game is played. Win some (gems), lose some.

I would say the buyer deserves a partial refund equal to the difference of a 9 and a 8.5. Whatever that may be.

[statman32]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

This is why the lynch mob mentality here is terrible. Anyone can post their POV on a situation but it may be missing key parts. By the time the "accused" comes here the mob already got to him.

Ding, ding, ding.

I really wanted to post earlier about considering the source but held off because some things just play themselves out.

I understand why the OP is frustrated, but I also understand why the buyer is frustrated. It is a crappy situation and leaving out and/or giving bad information is the last thing that should be done when presenting a thread like this.

Accusing them of "buyers remorse" because they didn't bring it up for 9 days is pretty silly. Not everyone opens up their mail immediately, and not everyone checks their mail every day. I know I have went 10 days or more without checking my mail or opening up packages I received.

Have Polanco's prices really fallen that far. And if they have, that doesn't automatically mean a case of buyer's remorse. Assumptions like this shouldn't result in a call-out thread.

Now in regards to the dimple, it is certainly something that I could miss in a toploader. Problem is it seems like the buyer asked about the surface, which would lead most people to take it out and inspect the card. That dimple would then be noted.

I believe when someone asks about the surface, it is important to note anything and be a little cautious. Better that then not say anything.

I do understand why a refund over a dimple is frustrating, but every buyer has their own quirks when purchasing a card. Sometimes it is better to just bite the bullet and learn from the experience. If you don't have the money now, ask the buyer if he can work with you so that you can get the money.

[Firerunner4]

Well, this took an interesting turn......

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

Oh I agree that people should not expect gem mint cards when they buy raw cards, way too many people do.

But I try to disclose a major flaw if there is one. On high end cards I will say where print lines are and if there are marks on the card...Typically all my high end stuff is graded anyway. Just like I told you the DJ Blue won't get a 10 auto when you asked earlier today.

Who is the user so we can block them....

Well what if you ask the member about the surface and they say there is one little flaw such as a dimple then get the card and it has print lines and scratches all over the surface. Is that acceptable? This recently happened to me on here. Needless to say I left positive feedback for a member with 100's of deal before examing the card.

[lazygambler]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

hahaha thanks for the reference point!

[AtlantaHomer]

Lessons learned in this thread...

1. Have pp / or linked cc to issue full/partial refund
2. disclose damage as accurately as possible
3. wear a jock strap when selling on eBay/BO

[lauriontj]

Originally Posted by cgilmo78

paul asked me to post a pic for him

Looks like the dimple is above the hands holding the bat???

[Adamchuk]

I think its time to get out of this hobby for me. You bought a raw card. It has a dimple, who cares. Before BGS this was never an issue. Now every auction I run I get 4 questions
How are the corners
How is the surface
Is the back centered
How are the edges

Its a raw card. I am not BGS, and while I do grade, I feel liable giving people answers to these questions if there isn't anything major. But then buyer gets it and disagrees with my assessment. Does that make me wrong? It shouldn't, but it does.

[asujbl]

Do we have a timeline here somewhere that I missed? That would help.

Card was DLVD on June 23rd.

OP says refund was asked for "now" but what does now mean? Meaning like this morning? 2 days ago? 5 days ago? How close are we talking to the 23rd?

When was the card actually received by the buyer if they travel a lot?

I'd like to see the PM replies from the OP when the buyer asked for a full refund and the responses.

We are missing a lot of information as far as "timing" in this thread.

But sure seems like the OP didn't give the whole story.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by Adamchuk

I think its time to get out of this hobby for me. You bought a raw card. It has a dimple, who cares. Before BGS this was never an issue. Now every auction I run I get 4 questions
How are the corners
How is the surface
Is the back centered
How are the edges

Its a raw card. I am not BGS, and while I do grade, I feel liable giving people answers to these questions if there isn't anything major. But then buyer gets it and disagrees with my assessment. Does that make me wrong? It shouldn't, but it does.

I agree with you in principal - it's why I simply say all my cards are NRMT if raw and that I won't guarantee any grade that might be higher then a 8.5 or 9 (will that stand up with Paypal? Of course not)

But a dimple, on a $600 card, is something that should be disclosed. That isn't like it's 65/35 centering instead of 60/40 when you see it in hand.

[coyne81486]

hey guys, i went to bed so couldn't answer questions:

heres what really happened, i will screenshot conversation too.

I do admit that i did see the dimple there, that i did not disclose, there is no possible way to disclose everything imperfection on a card or else every card that i buy from now on will be a 9.5 or 10 if i ask the right questions lol.



1. Here is the EXACT question he asked me asking about the condition, please note he does not ask about specifics like surfaces, edges....
"hey just wondering if it is a clean card, centered etc. Looks good just wanted to check! Thank You very uch for your time."

I respond with

"Yes (it's a clean card) the card was going in my next sub... pretty sick card."

nowhere in the conversation did he ask me about surface, edges, corners, i could go on for days with little imperfections, it's a baseball card.


2. The only reason i accused him of buyers remorse was because he signed for it 10 days ago, and polanco has cooled off, whats the chances.


3. I will happily give him a partial refund of 50 gift pp, i just don't know why a surface dimple, which people say does not affect the grading of a card that much, can take $175 off of a card.


4. Paul, im sorry if i forgot to disclose that and im sorry this happened. Hey, maybe ill pay for grading services for the card and add on 40 pp gift and we call it even, i can't do the full refund because i honestly don't have 675 laying around.

[coyne81486]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Do we have a timeline here somewhere that I missed? That would help.

Card was DLVD on June 23rd.

OP says refund was asked for "now" but what does now mean? Meaning like this morning? 2 days ago? 5 days ago? How close are we talking to the 23rd?

When was the card actually received by the buyer if they travel a lot?

I'd like to see the PM replies from the OP when the buyer asked for a full refund and the responses.

We are missing a lot of information as far as "timing" in this thread.

But sure seems like the OP didn't give the whole story.

he asked for the refund on july 1st at 11 PM EST

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by coyne81486

hey guys, i went to bed so couldn't answer questions:

heres what really happened, i will screenshot conversation too.

I do admit that i did see the dimple there, that i did not disclose, there is no possible way to disclose everything imperfection on a card or else every card that i buy from now on will be a 9.5 or 10 if i ask the right questions lol.

.

That's all I needed to read. You say he didn't ask "specifically" about dimples or edges - but you ignore that he did include "etc" and also said "it looks clean but wanted to check"

Clearly you knew it wasn't completely clean since you knew about the dimple.

The transaction after the fact in terms of refunds, partials, timing of asking etc... I'll reserve judgement.

But from the get go this wasn't a good faith transaction by you on a $600 deal.

Should he have asked sooner? That's the debate.

But I'd be pissed to if you knew about the imperfection and didn't tell me when I asked if the card was clean.

[tazzy13]

Originally Posted by coyne81486

hey guys, i went to bed so couldn't answer questions:

heres what really happened, i will screenshot conversation too.

I do admit that i did see the dimple there, that i did not disclose, there is no possible way to disclose everything imperfection on a card or else every card that i buy from now on will be a 9.5 or 10 if i ask the right questions lol.



1. Here is the EXACT question he asked me asking about the condition, please note he does not ask about specifics like surfaces, edges....
"hey just wondering if it is a clean card, centered etc. Looks good just wanted to check! Thank You very uch for your time."

I respond with

"Yes (it's a clean card) the card was going in my next sub... pretty sick card."

nowhere in the conversation did he ask me about surface, edges, corners, i could go on for days with little imperfections, it's a baseball card.


2. The only reason i accused him of buyers remorse was because he signed for it 10 days ago, and polanco has cooled off, whats the chances.


3. I will happily give him a partial refund of 50 gift pp, i just don't know why a surface dimple, which people say does not affect the grading of a card that much, can take $175 off of a card.


4. Paul, im sorry if i forgot to disclose that and im sorry this happened. Hey, maybe ill pay for grading services for the card and add on 40 pp gift and we call it even, i can't do the full refund because i honestly don't have 675 laying around.

1. You cried wolf- you made this bed, now time to sleep in it.

2. No way that surface is gets anything higher than 8.5 (I'll personally cover the grading fee if it gets subbed and comes back 9 or higher on the surface sub grade).

3. You were asked about the cards condition (try to play coy with the question posed; but even though we know you're a kid, we all know you're smarter than that). If it were "clean", it wouldn't have a noticeable flaw shown in a photo. Should've been disclosed IMO.

4. Maybe try to level with the buyer (especially of there is actual communicating going on), before dragging their name through the dirt. This further illustrates point 1, and why I know there are members on here who will not work with you.

- God Bless

[coyne81486]

He asked if it's a clean card, i said yes.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by coyne81486

He asked if it's a clean card, i said yes.

So you lied. Got it.

Since you admit you knew it had a dimple before you sent it - which is a clear imperfection on a "clean" card - people might not care but it needs to be disclosed. Especially on a deal this high end.

This is getting worse for you not better.

[hugh]

Originally Posted by coyne81486

hey guys, i went to bed so couldn't answer questions:

why did you leave off the part about him asking for a full refund in your original post? especially when people started calling it a scam because he "demanded" a partial refund? Kind of manipulative on your part...trying to manipulate the crowd in your favor IMO

[coyne81486]

Originally Posted by asujbl

That's all I needed to read. You say he didn't ask "specifically" about dimples or edges - but you ignore that he did include "etc" and also said "it looks clean but wanted to check"

Clearly you knew it wasn't completely clean since you knew about the dimple.

The transaction after the fact in terms of refunds, partials, timing of asking etc... I'll reserve judgement.

But from the get go this wasn't a good faith transaction by you on a $600 deal.

Should he have asked sooner? That's the debate.

But I'd be pissed to if you knew about the imperfection and didn't tell me when I asked if the card was clean.

I didn't ignore it, it's just that i could go onon and on about slight imperfections, i didn't think a dimple needed to be disclosed ive been told by people that sub all the time say dimples don't affect surface that much.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by coyne81486

I didn't ignore it, it's just that i could go onon and on about slight imperfections, i didn't think a dimple needed to be disclosed ive been told by people that sub all the time say dimples don't affect surface that much.

All that means is that you assumed he was going to sub it and that it would come back OK so she shouldn't care about it.

I have submitted less then 10 cards in my life, I don't buy things to be graded, and I'd still be pissed if I got that card with the dimple as that's not "clean" whether I was keeping it raw or not.

The simple fact is you didn't disclose something material to a clean card.

As to whether he waited to long to ask for a refund? That's a different story that is still up for debate.

[Prospect Rush]

Do these ever not backfire?

[lazygambler]

Originally Posted by statman32

Ding, ding, ding.

I really wanted to post earlier about considering the source but held off because some things just play themselves out.

I understand why the OP is frustrated, but I also understand why the buyer is frustrated. It is a crappy situation and leaving out and/or giving bad information is the last thing that should be done when presenting a thread like this.

Accusing them of "buyers remorse" because they didn't bring it up for 9 days is pretty silly. Not everyone opens up their mail immediately, and not everyone checks their mail every day. I know I have went 10 days or more without checking my mail or opening up packages I received.

Have Polanco's prices really fallen that far. And if they have, that doesn't automatically mean a case of buyer's remorse. Assumptions like this shouldn't result in a call-out thread.

Now in regards to the dimple, it is certainly something that I could miss in a toploader. Problem is it seems like the buyer asked about the surface, which would lead most people to take it out and inspect the card. That dimple would then be noted.

I believe when someone asks about the surface, it is important to note anything and be a little cautious. Better that then not say anything.

I do understand why a refund over a dimple is frustrating, but every buyer has their own quirks when purchasing a card. Sometimes it is better to just bite the bullet and learn from the experience. If you don't have the money now, ask the buyer if he can work with you so that you can get the money.

That's how I knew this was going to turn out awesome.

[coyne81486]

I didn't not disclose the dimple on purpose. I was ignorant of the fact because i was told dimples don't affect grading much