Is Brilliance the crappiest $100/box product currently out there?

[sals_cardz]

in a few short words if this is for set builders, then why charge 100 a box? to me this shouldnt be higher then 55 or 60.

[DrJ Converse]

Originally Posted by sals_cardz

in a few short words if this is for set builders, then why charge 100 a box? to me this shouldnt be higher then 55 or 60.

Because people still want guaranteed hits and at least a couple of autographs. Yes the resale on a lot of the autos is low but that is not really Panini's fault at the end of the day.

For 55 or 60 with no hits, the product would just sit. When was the last thread you remember on this board about people building sets and trading to fill in their gaps. It just does not happen frequently.

[hychang5]

Originally Posted by DrJ Converse

Because people still want guaranteed hits and at least a couple of autographs. Yes the resale on a lot of the autos is low but that is not really Panini's fault at the end of the day.

For 55 or 60 with no hits, the product would just sit. When was the last thread you remember on this board about people building sets and trading to fill in their gaps. It just does not happen frequently.

Not really Panini's fault? I'll be willing to bet if this had zero GU and auto's and instead had refractors and color parallels, people would be falling all over themselves for it. I'd rather get a parallel than a Kwame Brown autograph in a 2012-13 release.

[bdoody42]

Panini has had some other products bust this year. Timeless treasures I think was the biggest disaster.

[Ajax1723]

Originally Posted by bdoody42

Panini has had some other products bust this year. Timeless treasures I think was the biggest disaster.

Panini basketball products this year overall were a bust. Sure there were a couple good ones (Prizm and Preferred come to mind), But with a double rookie class, they really made sure they got as many 2nd rounders and undrafted free agents for autos as they could. Not to mention Leaf got Lillard exclusive, and Kyrie was a redemption for 85% of the products.

[sals_cardz]

Originally Posted by DrJ Converse

Because people still want guaranteed hits and at least a couple of autographs. Yes the resale on a lot of the autos is low but that is not really Panini's fault at the end of the day.

For 55 or 60 with no hits, the product would just sit. When was the last thread you remember on this board about people building sets and trading to fill in their gaps. It just does not happen frequently.

Ok well you make no valid points. yes people still want hits but they said this is more for set builders, even with the guaranteed hits its should still be around 60 dollars. panini has every box come out at around 100 which is horrible. no roi, and no usually pc hits unless you pull a select few, oh and not to mention all the d league redemptions.

[jj2]

Originally Posted by sals_cardz

Ok well you make no valid points. yes people still want hits but they said this is more for set builders, even with the guaranteed hits its should still be around 60 dollars. panini has every box come out at around 100 which is horrible. no roi, and no usually pc hits unless you pull a select few, oh and not to mention all the d league redemptions.

1. Panini might have set the price at $100 but who actually payed that? I'm guessing virtually no-one.
2. A box of cards like this is not an investment.

[DrJ Converse]

Originally Posted by sals_cardz

Ok well you make no valid points. yes people still want hits but they said this is more for set builders, even with the guaranteed hits its should still be around 60 dollars. panini has every box come out at around 100 which is horrible. no roi, and no usually pc hits unless you pull a select few, oh and not to mention all the d league redemptions.

Still waiting for you first valid point. You are clueless as to how a business is run.

Panini has to pay money for licensing and overhead and actual product production including jersey's autographs, etc oh and make some kind of profit on a release so they can continue doing business and buy memorabilia and autos for the next product. Even those "worthless" autos cost them something on a per signature basis based on the players stature.

Too many people are cheap or want a guaranteed return on every box. You may not like the 100 MSRP (usually much less), but it is probably the cost of doing business these days.

I guess I have been around this hobby too long when people actually used to put sets together and you would go to card shows with your need list and dealers would actually have commons available for new product. Opening, sorting, and the accomplishment of a completed set used to mean something.

[xavieronly1]

Originally Posted by DrJ Converse

Panini has to pay money for licensing and overhead and actual product production including jersey's autographs, etc oh and make some kind of profit on a release so they can continue doing business and buy memorabilia and autos for the next product. Even those "worthless" autos cost them something on a per signature basis based on the players stature.

Too many people are cheap or want a guaranteed return on every box. You may not like the 100 MSRP (usually much less), but it is probably the cost of doing business these days.

If Panini only includes superstar auto, it will be running 1 auto per 1 case. In order to sell better, they include tons of low-end auto from players that you can pay for cheaper. This way, the overhead expense increase by little, but you actually increase the sale way more.

[shaner1]

Interesting thread...

My question is a tangent of sorts: If Panini can charge whatever they want, and price Brilliance/Momentum at $100 a box, isn't it likely that they could price National Treasures at $750 a box? $1000 a box? Or more?

It is their best product, so would collectors still buy at those prices, or would everyone boycott NT's?

[Sikkcaden]

Originally Posted by oshmeehan

I am assuming they are probably a Retail only parallel

Hopefully lol

[Sikkcaden]

The Panini America Quality Control Gallery: 2012-13 Brilliance Basketball (82 Images) | The Official Panini America Blog

the 2nd user comment was my favorite lol

[Gio47]

Originally Posted by shaner1

Interesting thread...

My question is a tangent of sorts: If Panini can charge whatever they want, and price Brilliance/Momentum at $100 a box, isn't it likely that they could price National Treasures at $750 a box? $1000 a box? Or more?

It is their best product, so would collectors still buy at those prices, or would everyone boycott NT's?

No, they can't because few people are buying Brillance/Momentum at $100/box.

[WallyatJCCards]

Momentum looked terrible and I was 100% sure it would suck, since Football absolutely sucked and there were 3 GREAT rookie's you could pull along with another dozen pretty good rookies and it flopped. Ugly, tough to get a decent pull, plain jerseys.

I do wonder if Panini dropped their silly MAPP pricing for this exact reason - to put out $65 boxes at their seamingly magical price point of $100 per with the standard 3 hits, so when it goes down to $80, you think you are getting a great deal.

Tried looking on Ebay for this set - there was a Fleer product that was all blue, with swirly looking backgrounds, I thought it was called brilliance, released in the 90's - but they had parallels and the base cards were kind of Pinnacle looking, which was sweet - it's driving me nuts that I can't find it.......... Anyways, that's what I THOUGHT brilliance was going to be, instead it is like a crappy skybox premium release with no numbered cards and gigantic 1 color "patches"

[WallyatJCCards]

Ajax is spot on. The reality is that the hobby has reached a point where the price of the box will typically represent the ROI potential. Not every box or case will be a winner, but I honestly believe there is a ZERO % possibility of you opening a case and paying for it. Even if you hit a Kobe auto, a Kyrie (likely a redemption) an Anthony Davis auto AND some sweet parallels, you still won't stand a chance to make your money back - most would agree getting those three auto's would be a longshot and yet.... STILL wouldn't cover the cost.

Short print the base cards of a few players, throw in an essential credentials type of parralel, and some crazy set called BRILLIANT with a really cool design and have them fall 1:2 boxes, maybe a poor man's jambalaya

This set just sucks and so does Panini, haha

Originally Posted by jj2

I agree that it's probably not a $100 a box product, but the market has already spoken on that and it's now down to about $80 (I'm not sure that anyone actually ever paid $100 for this). I think around $70-$80 is probably about right.

My point was though, that if you are buying boxes or cases of products like Brilliance to try and make some easy money then you probably need to reassess things.

[Tarheelsfan2012]

I hope people start to bust more of these boxes if the prices drops. Otherwise my set isnt gonna make it very far lol I only have 3 of the 20 city to city primes.

[Gurds]

Just was at Walmart picking up a few things. Stopped by the card aisle and grabbed 3 loose packs of Bowman Football to see what it was all about. I did however see, hanger packs of Brilliance and noticed that the packs are clear/see through. So you can see what the top card you are getting of the top and bottom of the hanger pack. Granted I don't expect one to pull any thing great out of these panini retail, but I'd imagine these will be a pack searchers dream. Great job Panini

[Beavers98]

Originally Posted by billmendez

Momentum looked terrible and I was 100% sure it would suck, since Football absolutely sucked and there were 3 GREAT rookie's you could pull along with another dozen pretty good rookies and it flopped. Ugly, tough to get a decent pull, plain jerseys.

I do wonder if Panini dropped their silly MAPP pricing for this exact reason - to put out $65 boxes at their seamingly magical price point of $100 per with the standard 3 hits, so when it goes down to $80, you think you are getting a great deal.

Tried looking on Ebay for this set - there was a Fleer product that was all blue, with swirly looking backgrounds, I thought it was called brilliance, released in the 90's - but they had parallels and the base cards were kind of Pinnacle looking, which was sweet - it's driving me nuts that I can't find it.......... Anyways, that's what I THOUGHT brilliance was going to be, instead it is like a crappy skybox premium release with no numbered cards and gigantic 1 color "patches"

Yeah Fleer did a Brillance Set. I had the 98-98 Version. Don't know if they made it too many years

[hairyangryfella]

Nevermind...

[brado8236]

This product is terrible, and more proof that the basketball market is saturated with too many similar crap autos and jerseys. The "3-4 hits for $100" model is absolutely murdering the secondary market when the hits suck and there's no other value to be had in the product. The same issues can be seen in the football market, but at least there's competition to keep the cards from getting overly stale, and Panini is still lagging in that arena.

Brilliance is also more proof that granting an exclusive NBA license without products containing Jordan and Lebron autos is utterly foolish. As stated in an above post, some Panini products have been nice (Prizm, Preferred, even Select), but Kobe, Durant, and Kyrie autos only go so far. Imagine if those products contained sick Jordan and Lebron autos...

It's similar to the situation in hockey, where UD still has exclusives with Gretzky, Orr and a few other players. UD products sell consistently better than Panini products in the primary market, no matter how well or poorly designed they are, and it's directly related to the huge exclusive autos UD offers. Panini products are accordingly viewed as inferior in both the primary and secondary markets, with very few exceptions. And no matter how good a Panini hockey product may be (11-12 Dominion comes to mind), it will always be lacking due to the absence of the UD exclusive guys. This also applies to basketball.

The point here is that Panini MUST be more creative and offer more value in their basketball products than their current "3-4 hits for $100" model if they don't want their products gathering dust on shelves and in warehouses. Brilliance, along with most of their other watered-down 12-13 basketball products, is a big step in the wrong direction from a value standpoint.

[thekiddfan]

well said

very well said

this 3-4 lousy hits per box for $100 simply stinks

[jj2]

Originally Posted by thekiddfan

well said

very well said

this 3-4 lousy hits per box for $100 simply stinks

Plus ~120 cards.

[bustsomewax]

Sorry to dig up a dead thread, but figured I'd bump it instead of starting a new one.

I just bought a case of this for $400, figured how could I go wrong (I'm sure I'll prove this to myself over the weekend)

Does anyone know how often the patches fall? Are they a case hit?

Thanks.

[JMarchand1981]

Originally Posted by bustsomewax

Sorry to dig up a dead thread, but figured I'd bump it instead of starting a new one.

I just bought a case of this for $400, figured how could I go wrong (I'm sure I'll prove this to myself over the weekend)

Does anyone know how often the patches fall? Are they a case hit?

Thanks.

If you are lucky you will get two patches per case. Still, at $400 for about 12 boxes it will be a fun rip either way.

[LakeShow]

bought a case at the natty for 350$ best hit was a nice steph curry patch. I'd say Got about 250-300 back this product was that bad.