2009 Unnumbered Bowman Red - Backdoored or Giveaways?

[DaBaddestHic]

Eh no need to be sorry, just glad that I wasn't being paranoid. You'd think that I would have been more leery since I'd just purchased the proof card a few days before.

He told me that he got the cards from a dealer in Chicago, who knows if it's true. I'll ask for that refund or file a dispute if he won't give me my refund before I ship it back. Would rather just destroy it but, probably don't have a choice there.

Thanks for the help.

[1989FF]

Baseball- Pinnacle 1997 Mirror Golds
2009 Bowman Red 1/1 (unnumbered)
2006 Bowman Gold Refractors (unnumbered)
2006 Sterling Black and Gold Refractors (unnumbered)
2007 Bowman Chrome Tim Lincecum Refractor Auto. Theory is that the auto was added after being "backdoored". Unsure if sticker is legit or lifted from other cards. Likely lifted from other cards.
Bowman Originals- easy to pull a sticker from a cheapie and make yourself a Pujols 1/1

2008 Bowman Chrome (Topps claimed they bought these back from ebay) Never was made clear if they were illegally obtained or lost in mail to Topps and legally purchased.) Although the story was "lost in transit".

1,482 Rene Rosoni autographs
480 of 500 Rene Tosoni Refractor autographs
241 of 250 Rene Tosoni Xfractor autographs
142 of 150 Rene Tosoni Blue Refractor autographs
44 of 50 Rene Tosoni Gold Refractor autographs
23 of 25 Rene Tosoni Orange Refractor autographs
24 of 25 Tim Bascom Orange Refractor autographs

And unconfirmed random bits from a quick Google search.. 97 Donruss signature got cards stolen out of their car.
I think 97-98 Skybox autographics had one or two rookies I think it was Tim Thomas was one and someone from 1997 UD Legends football. Where a few cards showed up signed on ebay with UD coa on the back, but were never returned for pack out or redemptions.

Football- Although Topps has said they were issued, not BACKDOORED. 2009 Topps Rookie Premiere Autos. Topps has confirmed via Twitter that these cards are the player issue cards issued by the company to the players for trading amongst themselves at the premiere. They are *most likely* real autographs, but it is still in your best interest to think twice before purchasing. They do not say "Topps Certified Autograph Issue." Notorious scammer Burge and others, seemed to have these 1st.



I'm positive there's alot more. ...

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by DaBaddestHic

Eh no need to be sorry, just glad that I wasn't being paranoid. You'd think that I would have been more leery since I'd just purchased the proof card a few days before.

He told me that he got the cards from a dealer in Chicago, who knows if it's true. I'll ask for that refund or file a dispute if he won't give me my refund before I ship it back. Would rather just destroy it but, probably don't have a choice there.

Thanks for the help.

No problem. Happy to help.

Write on the back FAKE in ink you can only see with a blacklight. Although I doubt graders or collectors use those...I know some collectors do on vintage with black borders to check for re-coloring.

You can destroy it. Call Paypal. Show them this thread. Have them call Topps. FWD the font differences. I've purchased counterfeit items before. After (verbal) proof was provided, $ was back in my acct. I asked if I had to ship the wax trays back as I wanted the $ to do so as it should not be on my dime. They told me I could keep them or send them back (on my dime). I destroyed them.

I purchased numerous of these cut unstamped cards. Sent like 5 into Beckett. Curious if they would slab them. They did.

The rest I stamped with a odd hole punch. So if you see a Red stamped 1/1 with a that's my work.


FWIW the unnumbered '09 Bowman Red you bought is not a proof. Just a unstamped backdoored card. Beckett grades these and unsure if they view them as something other than unauthorized stolen material. Based on my findings I can confirm there are around 20 of each that were cut up and 4 still in sheet form (last I knew). I have not see all of the sheets for the set but the sheet I had (with your card on it) had this printed on the shipping label. " 44 of sheet #3.". 106 sheets in all were sent to one person. One Hundred and six unstamped sheets. Topps stated on facebook they were "looking into it". I sure hope they did....

[DaBaddestHic]

Wish I'd read your post before I sent it back, but oh well. I got my refund and sent the card back yesterday so that he can take the cards he bought back to the dealer he got it from and ask for his money back.

This is of course assuming that he wasn't telling me some made-up story, and I have no idea how sure I am of that. It's hard to enter the mind of a scammer, but he put up no resistance to me asking for a refund other than getting a little pissed that I asked for the refund first. I explained that he'd have the same protection I had when I bought the card from him and he calmed down. (Because I bought it after he ended the listing, so it was paypal protection, not ebay's). So either he's a really level-headed scammer who doesn't mind one person calling him out in the grand scheme of things, or some dealer screwed him over big time, not only on the bowman cards, but also on the other stamped cards he was selling.

At any rate, if I ever see another 2009 Bowman Carlos Delgado red card I will be asking for full size scans next to another card and be examining the serial number carefully. I was watching this listing on ebay that ended recently and I'm sort of afraid it was fake too: eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices. The imperfection in the slash mark of the 1/1 is the same imperfection that was on the one I bought. I meant to contact the seller to let them know they might have a fake but it already sold, and has probably been shipped now. It sucks that there could be so many of these out there and 95% of the people who buy them won't ever have any suspicion. I don't understand why Topps would even have produced so many sheets of the stuff in the first place.

And it's ok that the other one I have isn't a real proof. It only cost me a dollar :P I'd gladly buy up all the unnumbered ones I can find for $1 each just to get them out of circulation.

[DaBaddestHic]

Sorry to bump an old thread (once again), but I just noticed what I believe is the exact same card I bought before up on ebay again. For a BIN of $24.95. I sent the seller a message saying I thought it was a fake, and then looked and they had a lot more listed. I haven't seen scans of the backs, but I'm pretty sure they're all gonna be fakes, and the seller might even know it since they have so many listed for so cheap.

Be wary if you're looking at any 2009 Bowman Red 1/1s from this seller! chandyg6p81 | eBay

[1989FF]

I bet (hope) he pulls them. I'll shoot a message over as well. Good longtime seller. Was one of the 2 original (known) people to aquire the Donruss Aqueous & Blue White Test cards.

Originally Posted by DaBaddestHic

Sorry to bump an old thread (once again), but I just noticed what I believe is the exact same card I bought before up on ebay again. For a BIN of $24.95. I sent the seller a message saying I thought it was a fake, and then looked and they had a lot more listed. I haven't seen scans of the backs, but I'm pretty sure they're all gonna be fakes, and the seller might even know it since they have so many listed for so cheap.

Be wary if you're looking at any 2009 Bowman Red 1/1s from this seller! chandyg6p81 | eBay

[Homerun]

Oh sh*t. I just bought the Konerko 1/1 from this guy earlier today.

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by Homerun

Oh sh*t. I just bought the Konerko 1/1 from this guy earlier today.

He told me in a email he will refund the 2 transactions he's completed for these cards. Guys a "good" seller who was unknowingly selling fakes.

DaBaddestHic- Thanks for the heads up on this and helping to avoid collectors putting fakes in their collection.


Here's the sellers response to me-

Thanks for your note and the input.....given your information, I just deleted the Bowman reds that I had listed...

I bought a fairly large accumulation of cards at a show this past weekend from a dealer...he had just traded
for them at the show.....I know the person from whom he got the group, and he has a history of being involved whenever
shady stuff like this comes into the hobby.....I don't buy anything from him that involves patches, autographs, or anything
that appears to have the potential to be bogus....however, this deal involved 7 shoe boxes of mostly rookies, '90s
inserts, stars, etc., and didn't have anything in it that I thought should be a problem (I picked up a similar deal a few
months ago and nothing was illegitimate)...

I didn't think that stamped 1/1s with the machine stamping (especially on a card whose color was specific to
1/1s) would have the potential for a problem (in other words, I didn't think he had added a stamping machine to some
of his other nefarious stuff), but apparently it does.....there were three other cards in this group that were Ultra Platinum
lucky 13 cards....all three were stamped 01/13....the cards obviously were Ultra Platinum cards, but the Okafor card is
stamped 01/13 at a different location than the stamp on another one of the lucky 13 Okafor's that is listed on another
site....I decided not to list that one until I was sure of the reason for the discrepancy....

I sold two cards from the group of stamped stuff already....given your information, I am going to refund the
money to the people with whom I made those transactions after I finish sending this e-mail....thanks for keeping me
informed; I mainly deal in oddball stuff but try to buy enough collections of cards to have something to sell at shows...
I don't always know when something like this happens, so I need input from other folks who know...best wishes, Chandy

[premium1981]

Nice to see some honest dealers left out there. Two thumbs way up!

[steveO]

This seller had a Fielder Red 1/1 up for sale as a BIN.....almost pulled the trigger on it because the price seemed really good. Figured I'd wait a day; well it was sold before I could go for it.

After reading through this, glad I didn't!.....great seller to refund the money though. Class act

Thanks for all the info on this

[DaBaddestHic]

Wow, this worked out a lot better than expected. I'm really glad that the people that actually bought one will get refunded, and even more glad that there's an honest dealer out there that cares more about not selling fake items than making a little money. Since hr got these in a lot I'm hoping he'll destroy them and take no real loss. I feel sort of bad for saying he might have known they were fake; I jumped the gun on that one. Maybe now next time I see the red Delgado from 2009 bowman I'll be (cautiously) optimistic that it's real haha.