Hot Take on Topps/Fanatics

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by Tea10

Vintage football sucks compared to baseball, that's the issue

You watch your mouth!

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Tea10

Vintage football sucks compared to baseball, that's the issue

I don't think it has anything to do with time period....football in general just doesn't product as many collectible players as other sports do since it's so QB focused and nobody collects defensive players or linemen.

Pre-1970 you have maybe six players who are widely collected (Graham, Starr, Unitas, Namath, Brown, Sayers).

The 1970's add in Staubach, Bradshaw, Dorsett, Harris, and Payton.

The 1980's Montana, Elway, Marino, and Rice.

The 1990's Aikman, Smith, Sanders, and Favre.

That's less than twenty widely collected players for the entire 20th century, and no defenders.

[Seahawks fan]

Originally Posted by mfw13

I don't think it has anything to do with time period....football in general just doesn't product as many collectible players as other sports do since it's so QB focused and nobody collects defensive players or linemen.

Pre-1970 you have maybe six players who are widely collected (Graham, Starr, Unitas, Namath, Brown, Sayers).

The 1970's add in Staubach, Bradshaw, Dorsett, Harris, and Payton.

The 1980's Montana, Elway, Marino, and Rice.

The 1990's Aikman, Smith, Sanders, and Favre.

That's less than twenty widely collected players for the entire 20th century, and no defenders.

Didn't help that 1970-1981 were unlicensed and had no logos on the helmets. They used the same pic for Bubba Smith 6 years.

[JSMPGA]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

I am going to miss Score the most. 4 autos per box at a very reasonable price - and a good percentage were quality autos.

A box of 2025 Score is an excellent time.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

Didn't help that 1970-1981 were unlicensed and had no logos on the helmets. They used the same pic for Bubba Smith 6 years.

True.

But that wasn't that big of a deal back then because most football cards were head shots anyway, not action shots, and there was no history of including team logos as part of the card design except for hockey.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

I think I'm going to shift to vintage.

Originally Posted by Boo

Originally Posted by Tea10

Vintage football sucks compared to baseball, that's the issue

Originally Posted by tjforce

Hey, Early Panini is almost 20 years old... Close enough to be vintage for some!

Nowhere did I specify vintage football.

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

Nowhere did I specify vintage football.

it was implied I thought.

Originally Posted by mfw13

I don't think it has anything to do with time period....football in general just doesn't product as many collectible players as other sports do since it's so QB focused and nobody collects defensive players or linemen.

Pre-1970 you have maybe six players who are widely collected (Graham, Starr, Unitas, Namath, Brown, Sayers).

The 1970's add in Staubach, Bradshaw, Dorsett, Harris, and Payton.

The 1980's Montana, Elway, Marino, and Rice.

The 1990's Aikman, Smith, Sanders, and Favre.

That's less than twenty widely collected players for the entire 20th century, and no defenders.

I didn't say that it did have to do with the time period, but if I were to debate or address that point - then I would agree...that it does in fact have to do with the time period.

The quote below from Seahawks Fan is evidence of how football cards weren't seen as the same. They still aren't today frankly, but the gap has been closed dramatically. It's not "football's" fault. The sport simply wasn't as popular as baseball or around for as long in an organized or popularized fashion.

The cards therefore were less collectible, valuable, and popular. I think a Unitas RC is cool, I own a Night Train Lane RC. It's not my personal opinion it's just a fact that football vintage is worse value wise and collectability wise.

Some cool sets, but if we get real part of the entire chase and excitement is the value and appreciation of the cards. There's the Honus Wagner and Ruths and all the T206-whatever, Goudey, all that vintage is worth a ton. There's nothing comparable for football.

I also don't think we can call 80s-90s junk wax era into modern "vintage". It's getting older but sure, at some point it will be effectively, but it's still a different era. There's 100k+ Montana RCs in slabs, and imo vintage baseball has some sneaky high pops but even at 2k-6k range there's no parallels or artificial scarcity, and there might be 1-2 sets in a given year. Football doesn't have any huge stars or draws early either, some, but Unitas-Brown-Payton cards don't command a premium like baseball vintage, not even close from what I know of.

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

Didn't help that 1970-1981 were unlicensed and had no logos on the helmets. They used the same pic for Bubba Smith 6 years.

Right, baseball cards mattered and people cared about them far more than every other sport until the 80s-90s maybe, and even then they did. Even today they do, but basketball/football are close now not a mile away.

[SandStoneSports]

Topps has been a revelation for me. Their insane prices and overtly corporate approach have changed my collecting habits. I've scaled back my box buying significantly for multiple reasons. A. The prices are stupid. B. Michael Rubin has made it abundantly clear that he thinks collectors are not only below him, but also incredibly stupid. If I can help it I'd rather not give Fanatics a penny of my money.

I have narrowed my buying to low pop singles of players I actually like to watch play the game. My collection has never been better, or more liquid. If I get the itch to open packs, I buy one or two blasters or megas, get torched and dont have the itch to do it again for a very long time.

I also get the benefit of listening to sports card podcasts that rage against the corporate aspects of the hobby--PROP-A-GANDA! The delineation between the manufacturer and the collectors has never been more stark. It's abundantly clear who is in the game for money (fanatics shills) and those who actually love collecting cards. In that respect, Fanatics has done me a favor because I no longer waste my time listening to guys like Sports Card Nonsense who ironically use to blast Geoff Wilson.

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by SandStoneSports

Topps has been a revelation for me. Their insane prices and overtly corporate approach have changed my collecting habits. I've scaled back my box buying significantly for multiple reasons. A. The prices are stupid. B. Michael Rubin has made it abundantly clear that he thinks collectors are not only below him, but also incredibly stupid. If I can help it I'd rather not give Fanatics a penny of my money.

I have narrowed my buying to low pop singles of players I actually like to watch play the game. My collection has never been better, or more liquid. If I get the itch to open packs, I buy one or two blasters or megas, get torched and dont have the itch to do it again for a very long time.

I also get the benefit of listening to sports card podcasts that rage against the corporate aspects of the hobby like they can do anything about it. The delineation between the manufacturer and the collectors has never been more stark.

Preach.

Meanwhile Rubin throws a baseball like a sissy nanny who also has a neruological disease. And then treats everyone like peons. Preach brother. He's right though, I do think most people in the card space are pretty stupid. Completely agree on singles, rare/low pop.

[SandStoneSports]

Originally Posted by Tea10

Preach.

Meanwhile Rubin throws a baseball like a sissy nanny who also has a neruological disease. And then treats everyone like peons. Preach brother. He's right though, I do think most people in the card space are pretty stupid. Completely agree on singles, rare/low pop.

Rubin's corporate act is nauseating. If people started using the least amount of assumptions in deciding whether Fanatics is lying to you about their business practices it'd be pretty clear that they are both lying to you and think you're stupid.

Of course, there are loaded boxes going to influencers and top breakers. You think a guy worth 10 billion dollars has no clue where his most valuable merchandise goes? He wants to make sure he makes the money off the box, the chase, and somehow keeps that million-dollar card in house to make the money off the card as well.

Then when it's clear he is lying to you he brings you back in by giving you a little piece of cheese in the form of athlete access to try and make you feel wanted again. Fanatics has turned the hobby into an abusive relationship. While collector's are spending thousand upon thousand of dollars opening overpriced, overprinted garbage, in the hopes they get one of 2,000 parallels of the latest "Cant Miss" Prospect to try and a profit, Rubin is collecting what really matters to him, money.

While Rubin is laughing all the way to the bank guys who are paying for overprinted trash with Klarna and Afterpay cant wait until the next Fanatic's Fest because they may get to run into TOM BRADY!!!!!!! Another Corporate goon adding to his massive fortune.

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by SandStoneSports

Rubin's corporate act is nauseating. If people started using the least amount of assumptions in deciding whether Fanatics is lying to you about their business practices it'd be pretty clear that they are both lying to you and think you're stupid.

Of course, there are loaded boxes going to influencers and top breakers. You think a guy worth 10 billion dollars has no clue where his most valuable merchandise goes? He wants to make sure he makes the money off the box, the chase, and somehow keeps that million-dollar card in house to make the money off the card as well.

Then when it's clear he is lying to you he brings you back in by giving you a little piece of cheese in the form of athlete access to try and make you feel wanted again. Fanatics has turned the hobby into an abusive relationship. While collector's are spending thousand upon thousand of dollars opening overpriced, overprinted garbage, in the hopes they get one of 2,000 parallels of the latest "Cant Miss" Prospect to try and a profit, Rubin is collecting what really matters to him, money.

While Rubin is laughing all the way to the bank guys who are paying for overprinted trash with Klarna and Afterpay cant wait until the next Fanatic's Fest because they may get to run into TOM BRADY!!!!!!! Another Corporate goon adding to his massive fortune.

Lmao. Well I agree with pretty much all of it. Good rant.

I'd also extend this into the vertical monopoly of Fanatics owning PWCC and the auction house. Which leads into them wanting to keep those big hits in house to pump them with fake sales and marketing to create interest and keep the train rolling. Predicting it now, some bum A insert like Helix or Crystalline? or whatever, that no one actually likes or cares about will start pumping (fake) sales across auction houses and be worth 20k-50k-100k within the next few months to years.

Already happens. Is what it is. And I agree with Rubin, most people are stupid. A lot of gambling addicts, a lot of people with zero financial intelligence or interest. So...this is what happens. It's an easy space to manipulate. Snake oil salesman can come here and print money. Pretty negative view overall though, it's not all bad. Fanatics also owns the adjacent sportsbook to gamble in too, advertising Topps Chrome and Fantastic Four Finest to the gamblers, I'd imagine a very high crossover.

Hope they come out with some actual good designs and cards though. Tecmo looks kinda cool, kinda cheesey too. Better than manga and the ai slop level inserts I've seen otherwise.

[SandStoneSports]

Originally Posted by Tea10

Lmao. Well I agree with pretty much all of it. Good rant.

I'd also extend this into the vertical monopoly of Fanatics owning PWCC and the auction house. Which leads into them wanting to keep those big hits in house to pump them with fake sales and marketing to create interest and keep the train rolling. Predicting it now, some bum A insert like Helix or Crystalline? or whatever, that no one actually likes or cares about will start pumping (fake) sales across auction houses and be worth 20k-50k-100k within the next few months to years.

Already happens. Is what it is. And I agree with Rubin, most people are stupid. A lot of gambling addicts, a lot of people with zero financial intelligence or interest. So...this is what happens. It's an easy space to manipulate. Snake oil salesman can come here and print money. Pretty negative view overall though, it's not all bad. Fanatics also owns the adjacent sportsbook to gamble in too, advertising Topps Chrome and Fantastic Four Finest to the gamblers, I'd imagine a very high crossover.

Hope they come out with some actual good designs and cards though. Tecmo looks kinda cool, kinda cheesey too. Better than manga and the ai slop level inserts I've seen otherwise.

Have to hand it to them. They are incredible marketers. That said, part of their ability to do so is built around a dependency on shill bidding. The singles market is currently synthetically inflated by bidders who have no intent on winning the auction. With ebay cracking down on shill bidding, there may be a return to more accurate singles pricing. Hopefully this will impact Fanatics ability to sell boxes for 5 times what they were pre-pandemic madness.

It's all a house of cards.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by SandStoneSports

Rubin's corporate act is nauseating. If people started using the least amount of assumptions in deciding whether Fanatics is lying to you about their business practices it'd be pretty clear that they are both lying to you and think you're stupid.

Worked for Trump and the GOP.....they got 80+ million people to vote for them......why wouldn't Rubin adopt the exact same tactics?

[ctau00]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

I have not collected an active player for over 3 years.

dont care about panini or fanatics/topps.

There is only one player I ever collected heavily, that was in 2015, prices were reasonable and there was competition between manufacturers.

Originally Posted by djohns30

Me as well. Haven't bought a case of football since 2015. I do miss it, but the prices are just too high for me.

In 2016 I was mainly buying cases of 2015 of Prizm & Chrome and retail cases of '16 Prizm in multiple formats but began losing interest in the ensuing years and would grab a blaster or two every once in a while.

Originally Posted by SandStoneSports

Topps has been a revelation for me. Their insane prices and overtly corporate approach have changed my collecting habits. I've scaled back my box buying significantly for multiple reasons. A. The prices are stupid. B. Michael Rubin has made it abundantly clear that he thinks collectors are not only below him, but also incredibly stupid. If I can help it I'd rather not give Fanatics a penny of my money.

I have narrowed my buying to low pop singles of players I actually like to watch play the game. My collection has never been better, or more liquid. If I get the itch to open packs, I buy one or two blasters or megas, get torched and dont have the itch to do it again for a very long time.

When COVID hit and all the new 'investors' with free money became the norm, along with the lack of available products on the shelf, I shifted my focus & finances elsewhere. Refinanced my home to a 15-year mortgage and made my final payment 2 days ago.

I will miss opening packs but Topps/Fanatics has made my decision to walk away so much easier.

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by ctau00

There is only one player I ever collected heavily, that was in 2015, prices were reasonable and there was competition between manufacturers.



In 2016 I was mainly buying cases of 2015 of Prizm & Chrome and retail cases of '16 Prizm in multiple formats but began losing interest in the ensuing years and would grab a blaster or two every once in a while.



When COVID hit and all the new 'investors' with free money became the norm, along with the lack of available products on the shelf, I shifted my focus & finances elsewhere. Refinanced my home to a 15-year mortgage and made my final payment 2 days ago.

I will miss opening packs but Topps/Fanatics has made my decision to walk away so much easier.

Hey congrats on paying off the house.

[Soundsofsulfur]

If “Poopnini” is the best name you can come up with you’re better off dissing them in other ways. I’ve seen you push this cheesy name in other threads and it’s not seeming to catch on. An attempt was made though.

[bradical]

The rate at which Topps is leaving their customers with their pockets inside out, there is not going to much of a customer base left to drop your $1250 base product hobby boxes on.

[jacksonjj]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Worked for Trump and the GOP.....they got 80+ million people to vote for them......why wouldn't Rubin adopt the exact same tactics?

I think you misspelled Biden got the most votes in history

*allegedly