Are you in the hobby for the enjoyment or the money?

[Bosoxfan5990]

I'm in it for the friends I made along the way.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

I'm in it for the friends I made along the way.

Hmmmmm….who would that be?

[tyrith]

I don't think we can really delineate breaker demand from end user demand so fully. On licensed products of remotely popular sets, hobby wax moves at LCSes very quickly as anything around market price.

If breaking was illegal tomorrow, prices would move down - there would be people whose primary form of opening sealed product (and even participating in the hobby) is via breaks who would then exit. But a good chunk of those people are going to start buying hobby wax themselves. There would be people who switch from buying retail (that's generally more available) to buying hobby, which might help bring retail prices down but would reduce the downward shift in hobby prices.

Even without breaking, the hobby is different than pre-COVID, and breaking going away wouldn't bring the good ol' days back. A massive downward shift in wax prices is only going to come from lots of people exiting the hobby - which is probably going to come alongside economic circumstances in the US none of us really want.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by tyrith

I don't think we can really delineate breaker demand from end user demand so fully. On licensed products of remotely popular sets, hobby wax moves at LCSes very quickly as anything around market price.

If breaking was illegal tomorrow, prices would move down - there would be people whose primary form of opening sealed product (and even participating in the hobby) is via breaks who would then exit. But a good chunk of those people are going to start buying hobby wax themselves. There would be people who switch from buying retail (that's generally more available) to buying hobby, which might help bring retail prices down but would reduce the downward shift in hobby prices.

Even without breaking, the hobby is different than pre-COVID, and breaking going away wouldn't bring the good ol' days back. A massive downward shift in wax prices is only going to come from lots of people exiting the hobby - which is probably going to come alongside economic circumstances in the US none of us really want.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but disagree with only licensed has a market.

Ohtani is unique, but his pajama RCs still sell for a good bit. His base Optic is a $50 card, and his DK is a $30 card. He is rare though, but the Witt Optic parallels sell well as well.

The other side is the dead ball and integration era relics are firmly held outside of Topps. NT and Flawless has the best selection of these era relics, and they can sell for a lot. NT and Flawless have no problem selling out. Now, Optic, Prizm and Contenders I will agree those sets do not normally hold value unless your name is Ohtani.

[creasecollector]

Like any hobby, I collect for the enjoyment.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[tyrith]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but disagree with only licensed has a market.

Ohtani is unique, but his pajama RCs still sell for a good bit. His base Optic is a $50 card, and his DK is a $30 card. He is rare though, but the Witt Optic parallels sell well as well.

The other side is the dead ball and integration era relics are firmly held outside of Topps. NT and Flawless has the best selection of these era relics, and they can sell for a lot. NT and Flawless have no problem selling out. Now, Optic, Prizm and Contenders I will agree those sets do not normally hold value unless your name is Ohtani.

Sure, that's reasonable. Mostly I mean that non-licensed product can sit sometimes - like 2024 Topps Chrome basketball is still available, stuff like that, and those pricing dynamics could be a little different.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by tyrith

Sure, that's reasonable. Mostly I mean that non-licensed product can sit sometimes - like 2024 Topps Chrome basketball is still available, stuff like that, and those pricing dynamics could be a little different.

Very true. But basketball will lag behind baseball for a while. Just wait for a few years and then the basketball community will catch up with it. Then the first year of Topps basketball (modern) will start to rise.

[bmattioli]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Simple question, are you clecting for fun or solely for profit?

Just curious, I am assuming BO is filled with profit only.

What is clecting? Asking for a friend..

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

What is clecting? Asking for a friend..

Sorry, long running joke.

Clecting = collecting.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

I'm in it for the friends I made along the way.

So you pay them in cards?

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I was just thinking about something.

There are so many people that are upset with the people who sell cards, or breakers because they cause box prices to go up.

Here’s my thought though, why?

It is the people who sell cards for a living that make eBay and COMC so full of the cards you want to buy. If it weren’t for sellers those cards would never show up and you would not have them.

It is the breakers that are breaking the $1000 boxes and selling cards for $20 from that break. If you back ten years, people were mad at spending $500 on a high end box and getting 5 $20 cards. Let the breakers do that, and you reap the benefits.

So please, can someone explain why you are so upset with it? If it weren’t for those two groups, you would have to go back to the 80s and 90s and open boxes HOPING you get the cards you want. Today, go on eBay and find it, for less than the box price. I thank breakers and sellers so I could do that when I was a team clector.

I've said for years the wax collectors are the true enemy.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I was just thinking about something.

There are so many people that are upset with the people who sell cards, or breakers because they cause box prices to go up.

Here’s my thought though, why?

It is the people who sell cards for a living that make eBay and COMC so full of the cards you want to buy. If it weren’t for sellers those cards would never show up and you would not have them.

It is the breakers that are breaking the $1000 boxes and selling cards for $20 from that break. If you back ten years, people were mad at spending $500 on a high end box and getting 5 $20 cards. Let the breakers do that, and you reap the benefits.

So please, can someone explain why you are so upset with it? If it weren’t for those two groups, you would have to go back to the 80s and 90s and open boxes HOPING you get the cards you want. Today, go on eBay and find it, for less than the box price. I thank breakers and sellers so I could do that when I was a team clector.

I think 10-15 years ago you could break cases AND buy the singles you wanted.

Now you feel like an idiot paying 10x to break a box. The singles will always be there. If it wasn’t the breakers opening, it would be the individual box/case openers opening.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

I've said for years the wax collectors are the true enemy.

I’m fine with folks holding on to wax for the long term (over a year).

The worst are those who buy the box to flip immediately. They don’t utilize the product (open the box), their actions simply drive up new product prices for everyone. They serve no purpose in the hobby but to scalp, grift, pump and exclude others who would prefer to utilize the product for themselves as the end-user (open the box). These middlemen are the worst of the worst.

[Donkaylove]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Same!

Give me a Strawberry or Puckett auto or RC over any of these new guys!

Wow, I like same. Love me collect odd Puckett, but weird that Darryl has a beautiful sig/swing, I don't collect him, but have his autos.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

The worst are those who buy the box to flip immediately. They don’t utilize the product (open the box), their actions simply drive up new product prices for everyone. They serve no purpose in the hobby but to scalp, grift, pump and exclude others who would prefer to utilize the product for themselves as the end-user (open the box). These middlemen are the worst of the worst.

You're probably right, where's Hairy to do a poll when you need him?

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I’m fine with folks holding on to wax for the long term (over a year).

The worst are those who buy the box to flip immediately. They don’t utilize the product (open the box), their actions simply drive up new product prices for everyone. They serve no purpose in the hobby but to scalp, grift, pump and exclude others who would prefer to utilize the product for themselves as the end-user (open the box). These middlemen are the worst of the worst.

I see your point, but how is that different than someone hoarding BC autos of top prospects just to sit on them and sell at peak? Does that not just drive up prices as well?

[tyrith]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I see your point, but how is that different than someone hoarding BC autos of top prospects just to sit on them and sell at peak? Does that not just drive up prices as well?

Typically people who do that at least like cards and baseball and such. There's a class of scalpers in the hobby now that are truly just rent seeking and don't actually care about what they're flipping; they could be scalping rocks of different colors for all they care.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I see your point, but how is that different than someone hoarding BC autos of top prospects just to sit on them and sell at peak? Does that not just drive up prices as well?

The bowman chrome autos are the end-product - the cases, boxes and packs have been opened and the product is down to its most basic form - singles. At that point, folks can do what they want with it.

The sealed case/box is still sealed and there are still randomized uncirculated cards inside - the middlemen aren’t using the product to enjoy by opening, they are simply shifting an additional cost to the next user of the product, until it gets opened. So as alluded to above, these middlemen box flipper bois could care less about the product itself, they could be flipping toilet paper, infant formula, or cosmic chrome, the only consequences of their actions is to drive up prices for someone else who is paying more for the pleasure of opening a randomized box of cards.

Sorry this is long-winded, but I really want people to understand the concept.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

The bowman chrome autos are the end-product - the cases, boxes and packs have been opened and the product is down to its most basic form - singles. At that point, folks can do what they want with it.

The sealed case/box is still sealed and there are still randomized uncirculated cards inside - the middlemen aren’t using the product to enjoy by opening, they are simply shifting an additional cost to the next user of the product, until it gets opened. So as alluded to above, these middlemen box flipper bois could care less about the product itself, they could be flipping toilet paper, infant formula, or cosmic chrome, the only consequences of their actions is to drive up prices for someone else who is paying more for the pleasure of opening a randomized box of cards.

Sorry this is long-winded, but I really want people to understand the concept.

I can understand the concept.

How do you feel about sealed collectors? If they are holding a case of unopened because it is what they collect, does that fall into the same category?

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I can understand the concept.

How do you feel about sealed collectors? If they are holding a case of unopened because it is what they collect, does that fall into the same category?

I’ve mentioned in my original post, long-term sealed collectors are fine (greater than a year). They’ve put their homework in and they are also taking a chance on their investment. A year has been plenty of time for everyone else to have the opportunity to open a product and it’s also a time period that is consistent with what the government considers a long term capital gain. Furthermore, box prices have usually stabilized after a year and playa bois aren’t trying to take advantage of the scalp.

They truly do no one any benefit in this hobby except for themselves - the epitome of selfishness and the “me first” mentality.

[oddstuff]

Cards have always been an extension for my love of baseball. With very little income in an immigrant family in the 70s, it was a pack here or there looking for my annual Steve Garvey card beginning in '77. Stopped that when he left for the Padres...and stopped collecting mainstream cards in the early 90s. Started buying minor league team sets in '85 (they cost $3.50 a set with mostly no names but that was the fun of it...trying to figure out possibly a future MLB star), so with the little money I had, that was all I bought into the mid 90s (at that time, team sets were running $5/set).

Came back in early 00s buying mainstream singles on Beckett. The idea of being able to buy singles to grade, sell and put that money back into more singles allow me to do 2 things: build my 3 children's college funds (super expensive in CA - 40K/yr w/o financial aid on a single income) and for the first time, have a tiny bit of disposal income to buy cards for myself. Most went into college funds but I was able to buy graded versions for my Garvey collection and in '17, start my Acuna collection (couldn't afford a single BCA then and still don't feel I could do that over saving for the kids' college funds).

Felt 2018 Topps stuff was a once in a lifetime thing (it could have blown up badly...who knew about Acuna, Soto and especially Ohtani - though I was really wary of Ohtani...having been burned badly by Dice-K). Bought as much Acuna and Soto singles as possible (and sealed factory sets mainly for Acuna...so Ohtani became a nice bonus). As my disposable income started to grow, was able to buy game used baseballs of Acuna/Soto in 2018/2019 and dabbled in their tickets as well.

So I started as #1 and transitioned to #3 as life moved on. Two older kids are halfway through college (as it is right now, both should graduate w/o college debt), with youngest in 9th grade (will see if he goes to college as his autism is unpredictable). Haven't bought much new stuff since 2021...everything is so expensive since (including TPG fees) so I mostly buy older stuff for my collection (unless I see something worth holding for 5 years). Here and there been filling in collection with graded minor league stuff from the 80s/90s and Garvey pack pulled autos.

[Triple B]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I’ve always read in bewilderment when people say they can and will only use money made from their hobby for their hobby.

Just curious, is the money made from your occupation off limits?

Does it really matter what the financial source of your card purchases are from?

Please enlighten me.

Sure.

The money made from my occupation is off limits. I don't use that money for hobby purchases, but rather for things like my children's needs, my mortgage, food, clothing, etc.

In terms of cards, I buy collections or singles, and grade and sell, and that money is used to fund my trips to the National and to purchase other other collections or more cards.

I'm not sure why you need to be enlightened; it seems pretty straightforward.

On the flipside, do you spend yourself silly using money you make from your occupation?

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by Triple B

Sure.

The money made from my occupation is off limits. I don't use that money for hobby purchases, but rather for things like my children's needs, my mortgage, food, clothing, etc.

In terms of cards, I buy collections or singles, and grade and sell, and that money is used to fund my trips to the National and to purchase other other collections or more cards.

I'm not sure why you need to be enlightened; it seems pretty straightforward.

On the flipside, do you spend yourself silly using money you make from your occupation?

I agree with you completely.

1) life sustaining (food, water)
2) normal monthly requirements (mortage, electric, insurance, etc)
3) kids desires
4) wife’s desires
5) savings/retirement
6) family outings
7) me


There is never anything left for me unless I make the hobby fund itself.

Which is why I like the trading aspect more. A lot easier for me to work with.

[awz50]

Always enjoyment

[ottobord]

General rule I learned long ago, that I've found to be true, and it just doesn't apply to cards but to most hobbies. If you are a collector you will eventually become a dealer as well.