Who was better Speaker or Gehrig?

[dashcol]

I am a big fan of the dead ball era and the integration era baseball.

The older I get, the more fascinated I become in the history of the game and the earlier the better.

What got me to compare these to is a trade that I am looking at doing, so I am trying to decide whether I would rather have a Speaker relic, or a Gehrig relic.

Looking at the stats:
(Bolder is the higher)

Gehrig:
Last year 1939 (played 17 years)
WAR - 113.7
BA - .340
OBP - .447
SLG - .632
OPS - 1.080
RBI - 1995
HR - 493
3B - 163
2B - 534
Field % - 991

HOF 1939
7x all star
2x MVP


Speaker:
Last year 1928 (played 22 years)
WAR - 135
BA - .345
OBP - .428
SLG - .500
OPS - .928
RBI - 1531
HR - 117
3B - 222
2B - 792
Field % - 971

HOF 1937
0x all star (AS game started in 1933)
1x MVP

Seems fairly equal to me, and the game was relatively the same game, Gehrig obviously has the prestige of being a Yankee, and part of the famed Murderers row.

Speaker was better defensively, and holds the all time 2B record (which I think will never be broken) Pujols is the closest modern player at fifth with 686.

So who do you say was the better player?

[ThoseBackPages]

i will take the guy with a disease named after him
over a player that one could argue is already forgotten
to time, especially in the hobby

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i will take the guy with a disease named after him
over a player that one could argue is already forgotten
to time, especially in the hobby

Fair, Gehrig will always be remembered because of ALS, which means he will always be relevant.

My question was for who the better player was.

Speaker helped to get baseball out of the dead ball era. He also holds what I believe (and others) to be an unbreakable record, which will keep him relevant with baseball fans.

I am not looking for cardboard value of who is better, a quick eBay search will tell you that. I am curious who everyone thinks was the better player.

I always respect your opinion TBP though.

[hermanotarjeta]

Unfortunately no one here has seen either of them play in person before.

You can only rely on numbers at this point in time.

Based on the numbers I still like Gehrig.

[awz50]

Ill take speaker. Won a batting title when they were all being won by Cobb, all time doubles leader, best CF defensively all time, career batting avg .345 and revived interest in Cleveland baseball after Nap left.

[awz50]

The iron horse and speaker also played in much differnt offensive eras so have to take that in to account. For a relic sake though take Gerhrig.

[glen87]

really tough choice since speaker played 14 of his 22 seasons in the dead ball era and gehrig didn't play at all in that era.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by glen87

really tough choice since speaker played 14 of his 22 seasons in the dead ball era and gehrig didn't play at all in that era.

I’m sure you saw them both play in person

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Unfortunately no one here has seen either of them play in person before.

You can only rely on numbers at this point in time.

Based on the numbers I still like Gehrig.

Agreed, no one has seen them play, but there is video of both.

Definitely more of Gehrig, and his “luckiest man” speech will always say something

Look at others that no one has seen play that still will always be remembered.

Ruth - will always be remembered
Mantle - probably the most popular player of all time (until Ohtani)
Cy Young - award named after him
Wagner - I think this is because of Gretzky
Jackie - broke color barrier
Cobb - holds the BA record, beyond that what does he have?

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by awz50

The iron horse and speaker also played in much differnt offensive eras so have to take that in to account. For a relic sake though take Gerhrig.

They did overlap for a while though. They overlaped 6 years, which I still think was the dead ball era. At least at first.

It is closer than comparing Gehrig to someone like Jeter to say who was better.

[glen87]

gehrig started in 1923, the dead ball era says ended after 1920

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Agreed, no one has seen them play, but there is video of both.

Definitely more of Gehrig, and his “luckiest man” speech will always say something

Look at others that no one has seen play that still will always be remembered.

Ruth - will always be remembered
Mantle - probably the most popular player of all time (until Ohtani)
Cy Young - award named after him
Wagner - I think this is because of Gretzky
Jackie - broke color barrier
Cobb - holds the BA record, beyond that what does he have?

Cobb no longer holds the BA record

[ThoseBackPages]

i would argue that if the best pitcher award was the Walter Johnson
Award that Cy Young would be long forgotten.

and if Wagner didnt have that T206 he would be as well

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Cobb no longer holds the BA record

I do not know why I always forget Gibson. I shouldn’t, thank you.

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i would argue that if the best pitcher award was the Walter Johnson
Award that Cy Young would be long forgotten.

and if Wagner didnt have that T206 he would be as well

That was kind of my point, Young is only remembered because of the award, not because he was the best.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by glen87

gehrig started in 1923, the dead ball era says ended after 1920

I do agree, thanks to rule changes, but a lot of players still had that style of play when Gehrig started.

To me it’s the same as saying Ivan Rodriguez was not impacted by steroid era, even though he played well past it.

[dashcol]

Really surprised, it’s 9-4 right now in favor of Gehrig.

I would have through it would have been 12-1 at this point!

[theshowandme]

[base set]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i will take the guy with a disease named after him
over a player that one could argue is already forgotten
to time, especially in the hobby

I bought a Gehrig SSP just a few weeks ago. It was half the price of a John Kruk card on the same checklist / same print run that sold around the same time.

Too bad Tris Speaker wasn’t on the checklist instead.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Like I said, the comparison is pretty equal.

Would Gehrig have won that many championships with Ruth and Dimaggio?

[Absknicks]

If you think that's pretty equal, you have no clue what you're looking at.

[Tom Oates]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Like I said, the comparison is pretty equal.

Would Gehrig have won that many championships with Ruth and Dimaggio?

Speaker only has more hits because he had a longer career. Both players work out to 1.25 hits per game so I would say that hits, PA, and games are only a minuscule edge to Speaker if you are trying to compare the two. That really only leaves Speaker with a stolen base edge. I believe that the slim advantage of Speaker in BA is clearly negated by Gehrig's OBP. Gehrig then leads in every important category. To me this isn't even close. Gehrig all the way.

[coltsnsox07]

Tris because he wasn't a effing Yankee.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by Absknicks

If you think that's pretty equal, you have no clue what you're looking at.

How about a “knives in” and helpful approach instead of insulting someone who asked a question? See below.

The man asked - he didn’t say “Speaker is better - fight (or ridicule) me!!”

Originally Posted by Tom Oates

Speaker only has more hits because he had a longer career. Both players work out to 1.25 hits per game so I would say that hits, PA, and games are only a minuscule edge to Speaker if you are trying to compare the two. That really only leaves Speaker with a stolen base edge. I believe that the slim advantage of Speaker in BA is clearly negated by Gehrig's OBP. Gehrig then leads in every important category. To me this isn't even close. Gehrig all the way.

[Chrominator]

Speaker. He was obviously faster and healthier than Lou.

[TBTC Baseball]

The forumn already said 3000 hits > 500 HR (and Gehrig didn't even get to 500).
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...hlight=3%2C000