PSA Buyback Grade Change

[inaka]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

I listened to the newest SCN podcast yesterday and they "addressed" this issue.
To begin, they are PSA schills. PSA is a paid sponsor of their show.

They said that a PSA high up told them that PSA itself apparently does not buy cards themselves, but are only a conduit between the buyer and seller?

is this accurate?

The SCN guys seemed to make this out like it was a non issue as far as fraud goes but did mention that they should have got out in front of it earlier.

I am unaware that buyers can go onto the PSA website and make offers on PSA cards which have been recently graded.

If you started a single-member LLC (so it's really just you) called your LLC "Card Guy, LLC" or whatever, you too could spin a narrative and say "I didn't buy that card" and it would technically be true, wouldn't it? Even though it's totally just semantics to get around you buying a card outright and opening yourself up to conflict of interest talk.

Well, PSA did the same thing. They created "PowerPacks, LCC" this year on 03/13/2025. When you search the public information for the principal address for this "PowerPacks LLC", it's literally PSA's address. LOL



https://bizfileonline.sos.ca.gov/search/business

So PSA gets to say "We aren't buying the cards directly"...but I'm sure PowerPacks LLC most definitely is for their new unregulated gambling product in collaboration with GameStop called PowerPacks. So when PSA (or anyone else like Neo) keeps insisting that "PSA isn't buying the cards directly", please keep this in mind that it's all incredibly misleading and false.

[boxbuster7]

I was curious about that and suspected as much. Thanks for doing the research.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by inaka

If you started a single-member LLC (so it's really just you) called your LLC "Card Guy, LLC" or whatever, you too could spin a narrative and say "I didn't buy that card" and it would technically be true, wouldn't it? Even though it's totally just semantics to get around you buying a card outright and opening yourself up to conflict of interest talk.

Well, PSA did the same thing. They created "PowerPacks, LCC" this year on 03/13/2025. When you search the public information for the principal address for this "PowerPacks LLC", it's literally PSA's address. LOL



https://bizfileonline.sos.ca.gov/search/business

So PSA gets to say "We aren't buying the cards directly"...but I'm sure PowerPacks LLC most definitely is for their new unregulated gambling product in collaboration with GameStop called PowerPacks. So when PSA (or anyone else like Neo) keeps insisting that "PSA isn't buying the cards directly", please keep this in mind that it's all incredibly misleading and false.

Nice research there!

[DKsportscardsWI]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

PSA will always be king! Not because they should be, that’s debatable, but because this hobby cares about one thing money and ROI! In one breath they are condemned and in the next when said person gets an upCharge email they are praised. Although there is a lot to see here, until the hobby stop sending them 1.5 MILLION PLUS cards per month it is all talk and for content. Most could see this possible issue coming but them paying up to 90% comps blinded the complainers.

Also when every vendor has 95% plus PSA slabs in their cases, they will always defend their questionable practices.

I think PSA could be effected quicker than you think. over the past 30 days, PSA has graded 1.1M tcg cards. The next highest is baseball at 218k. This has been going on for almost a year. TCG owners are fickle and I have been seeing them go crazy over this scenario and so many have vowed to switch back to CGC and Beckett. TCG is holding psa up right now and if they lose what they could lose, the blinders could come off

[f2tornado]

At least they didn't lock the thread on CU Forum. Sounds like the person impacted was made whole. Bad look regardless.

I like the program in general. Accept the offers I choose, get a deposit the next business day. Saves me time and the occasional eBay headache.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by DKsportscardsWI

I think PSA could be effected quicker than you think. over the past 30 days, PSA has graded 1.1M tcg cards. The next highest is baseball at 218k. This has been going on for almost a year. TCG owners are fickle and I have been seeing them go crazy over this scenario and so many have vowed to switch back to CGC and Beckett. TCG is holding psa up right now and if they lose what they could lose, the blinders could come off

True! I have about 60-75 cards I will be grading and the vintage is in my CGC pile which is growing. You are absolutely correct! If TCG turns away they are cooked. In TCG, CGC and BGS are respected and CGC, even with their issues, are doing some good things, especially being active at shows.

[Orangejello727]

Just stop paying premiums for PSA 10 slabs when you clearly know the card in the slab is not gem mint. There is now way a psa 10 should be multiple X factor over a 9.

Once people realize obtaining the card for ownership is more important than the number on the flip, you start to lose the value of a fake number on a slab. How much of a difference is there between a 10 and a 9? In fact various cards are in better condition in a 9 holder than a 10. So what are you paying a premium for? the number 10??

There is a part of me that believes PSA mis grades cards on purpose. I had a card grade a 6. I paid to regrade and got a 10. In another batch I have a N9 min size which I paid and sent back and it got a PSA 9. I cracked it and paid to regrade and got a 10. So was it always a 10 but I paid 3 times to get it to what it should be or was all 3 grades a joke?

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

At least they didn't lock the thread on CU Forum. Sounds like the person impacted was made whole. Bad look regardless.

I like the program in general. Accept the offers I choose, get a deposit the next business day. Saves me time and the occasional eBay headache.

The program itself is genius, especially when the offers work.

Last 62 card order, 85% gems, I accepted 5 offers. So much trash offers on very high quality cards.

I love this as an option, but I'm not giving Geoffy boi or any other repacker any margin, not even 1%. At that point I'd be better off creating my own and selling them on my own.

Provide a fair offer, I'll sell at a fair price, but Im not "giving" away my work, especially when finding said work is getting tougher and tougher year by year.

[Tones]

PSA only rose because of COVID when BGS turnaround times increased due to the massive influx of grading. PSA was widely used for vintage and TCG before then. Not modern sports.

PSA is only as big as it is today due to the new Sneaker-hype beast social media parasites, brainwashing new collectors they they are the "gold standard"

At the end of the day none of these companies are the gold standard, they all have their flaws, but I can't remember any of the other big ones being as bad as this

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Tones

PSA only rose because of COVID when BGS turnaround times increased due to the massive influx of grading. PSA was widely used for vintage and TCG before then. Not modern sports.

PSA is only as big as it is today due to the new Sneaker-hype beast social media parasites, brainwashing new collectors they they are the "gold standard"

At the end of the day none of these companies are the gold standard, they all have their flaws, but I can't remember any of the other big ones being as bad as this

So much wrong about this.

BGS fell off before Covid hit the US. Check the first post of the BGS thread for confirmation.

PSA is as big as it is because they built the best foundation through the Registry. Something none of the other companies have cared to really pursue.

All of the TPGs have their scandals. PSA allowed card alteration to go unchecked for years. BGS gave away Eagle Eye Joe and Leaf black labels on demand. And CGC just got duped with (or helped to facilitate) a seven figure scandal because they did the equivalent of a pinky promise with Takumi Akabane that his OG prototypes were all authentic, and not trash that he actually printed at home in 2024.

You should treat these sort of issues as the norm in the hobby, as it’s been this way for the last 30+ years.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by Tones

PSA only rose because of COVID when BGS turnaround times increased due to the massive influx of grading. PSA was widely used for vintage and TCG before then. Not modern sports.

PSA is only as big as it is today due to the new Sneaker-hype beast social media parasites, brainwashing new collectors they they are the "gold standard"

At the end of the day none of these companies are the gold standard, they all have their flaws, but I can't remember any of the other big ones being as bad as this

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

So much wrong about this.

BGS fell off before Covid hit the US. Check the first post of the BGS thread for confirmation.

PSA is as big as it is because they built the best foundation through the Registry. Something none of the other companies have cared to really pursue.

All of the TPGs have their scandals. PSA allowed card alteration to go unchecked for years. BGS gave away Eagle Eye Joe and Leaf black labels on demand. And CGC just got duped with (or helped to facilitate) a seven figure scandal because they did the equivalent of a pinky promise with Takumi Akabane that his OG prototypes were all authentic, and not trash that he actually printed at home in 2024.

You should treat these sort of issues as the norm in the hobby, as it’s been this way for the last 30+ years.

Khal is correct. BGS was failing long before COVID. Really, they weren't even trying. Just kinda glad to be here and watched the butterflies for over a decade. The funny thing is, as much as I want to say it was the PSA registry that Beckett couldn't capitalize, that was seemingly only a small part of it. The PSA Registry doesn't seem as big anymore as it was a decade ago. The pricing has made it difficult. But back to BGS, they simply have put in zero effort, in my opinion, since the early 2010's. Hell, what's their marketing budget, $100?

[Tones]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

So much wrong about this.

I guess I really didn't remember this correctly

Either way, I do stick to my guns with all of the grading companies having their issues, but I can't see any being of the severity of the current PSA ones.

I have been doing a ton of research and asking people who have used TAG and I definitely think I want to give them a shot.

Pros: Giving the full grade break down is a really nice addition. Use of AI to shift human error. Personal pro, I love the slabs, they are super clean and the transparency give it a "premium" product feel. Good turn around times/prices.

I do think if they don't do they should go through human review after the fact . I heard a lot of people complaining about the cases being very fragile and the cases shattering, but I mean if you aren't trying to break the cards out, it shouldn't be a problem? I would think shattering easy is a good think so people cant just replace the cards.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Khal is correct. BGS was failing long before COVID. Really, they weren't even trying. Just kinda glad to be here and watched the butterflies for over a decade. The funny thing is, as much as I want to say it was the PSA registry that Beckett couldn't capitalize, that was seemingly only a small part of it. The PSA Registry doesn't seem as big anymore as it was a decade ago. The pricing has made it difficult. But back to BGS, they simply have put in zero effort, in my opinion, since the early 2010's. Hell, what's their marketing budget, $100?

The downfall at BGS looked like this:

1. Guaranteed turnaround times for all.
2. No guaranteed turnaround times for group subs.
3. No guaranteed turnaround times for anybody.

Their problems started in 2019. They didn’t care to increase the workforce in response to the boom that took off with the 2018 rookie classes. I used to sub everything to BGS. Then I only would sub select cards. Then I subbed nothing. The service quality sucks. The turnaround sucks. The communication sucks. Everything about them sucks except black labels, which is the only thing keeping them afloat.

Originally Posted by Tones

Either way, I do stick to my guns with all of the grading companies having their issues, but I can't see any being of the severity of the current PSA ones.

Back in the day, PSA used to allow their biggest submitters to submit any number of cards and only get charged when the minimum grade was met. That is actually the biggest scandal they’ve ever had, but it received little fanfare because it was hush hush and after the fact. Talk about a conflict of interest when you’re only getting paid when you hand out the grade the submitter wants.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Khal is correct. BGS was failing long before COVID. Really, they weren't even trying.

Yes. BGS pissed off a lot of people in 2016-2017 timeframe when their guaranteed turnaround times were abolished AFTER people sent stuff in. Their QC was also sketchy with flips falling out of place and lots of slabs coming back chipped. All of this is why I started using PSA in 2019 after taking a two-year hiatus from the grading world.

It's true BGS was the go-to for newer cards about a decade ago and the BGS 9.5 would regularly outsell the PSA 10 for such a card. That reversed in that latter part of last decade. Once a company falls out of favor, it's incredibly difficult to go back in style.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

Yes. BGS pissed off a lot of people in 2016-2017 timeframe when their guaranteed turnaround times were abolished AFTER people sent stuff in. Their QC was also sketchy with flips falling out of place and lots of slabs coming back chipped. All of this is why I started using PSA in 2019 after taking a two-year hiatus from the grading world.

It's true BGS was the go-to for newer cards about a decade ago and the BGS 9.5 would regularly outsell the PSA 10 for such a card. That reversed in that latter part of last decade. Once a company falls out of favor, it's incredibly difficult to go back in style.

BGS has had a perfect opportunity to salvage its brand with the hate for PSA seemingly growing each day, but BGS leadership is completely clueless and keeps punching itself in the face with blunder after blunder. Not to mention its website design is stuck in the early 2000's. It's like BGS is content with just fading into obscurity.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The downfall at BGS looked like this:

1. Guaranteed turnaround times for all.
2. No guaranteed turnaround times for group subs.
3. No guaranteed turnaround times for anybody.

Their problems started in 2019. They didn’t care to increase the workforce in response to the boom that took off with the 2018 rookie classes. I used to sub everything to BGS. Then I only would sub select cards. Then I subbed nothing. The service quality sucks. The turnaround sucks. The communication sucks. Everything about them sucks except black labels, which is the only thing keeping them afloat.


Back in the day, PSA used to allow their biggest submitters to submit any number of cards and only get charged when the minimum grade was met. That is actually the biggest scandal they’ve ever had, but it received little fanfare because it was hush hush and after the fact. Talk about a conflict of interest when you’re only getting paid when you hand out the grade the submitter wants.

100% to all of this. Nothing is better looking than a BGS Black Label. That being said, I have switched all of my grading to CGC as their slabs are the clearest on the market. The cards look the best in those.

[oddstuff]

Sent in roughly 500 cards yearly from 2007-2018. As shared by others, turnaround times began to get super bad 2018 which forced the switchover to PSA. BGS ownership just refuse to see how much bigger they can get if they some money into it...kind of like a small market baseball team content with making a small piece of the pie and not wanting to be a strong #2 or even #1. As mentioned, their pristine and black label is the only thing keeping them around. Orders in 2018 began to take 2-3 months that grew into 5-6 months to complete.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by brev87

So I was told by someone with insider knowledge that, IF you send in let's say a base Wemby with a bulk submitter, and someone else sends one in and both get 10s, you won't necessarily get YOUR Wemby card back in a PSA 10 slab. And it's because they don't have the time to differentiate with so many cards being graded.

Take that for what it is

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

BGS has had a perfect opportunity to salvage its brand with the hate for PSA seemingly growing each day, but BGS leadership is completely clueless and keeps punching itself in the face with blunder after blunder. Not to mention its website design is stuck in the early 2000's. It's like BGS is content with just fading into obscurity.

Inexcusable that BGS hasn't taken advantage whatsoever of the PSA corruption recently.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Inexcusable that BGS hasn't taken advantage whatsoever of the PSA corruption recently.

Marketing Company: PSA is no longer trustworthy and has a declining customer base. Pay me $200,000 and I can make you a million in 3 months and 5 million in a year.

Beckett Leadership: Hmmmm, we're gonna have to think about that one. We can revisit this in a year. Starbies anyone?

[inaka]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Back in the day, PSA used to allow their biggest submitters to submit any number of cards and only get charged when the minimum grade was met. That is actually the biggest scandal they’ve ever had, but it received little fanfare because it was hush hush and after the fact. Talk about a conflict of interest when you’re only getting paid when you hand out the grade the submitter wants.

I believe this is referred to as the "4SharpCorners Rule".
And based on many of the 4SC eBay listings even now, it sure looks like it still could be going on for them today.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by inaka

I believe this is referred to as the "4SharpCorners Rule".
And based on many of the 4SC eBay listings even now, it sure looks like it still could be going on for them today.

4SC still has some of the worst looking 10s out there.

[GuacamoleCards]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

BGS has had a perfect opportunity to salvage its brand with the hate for PSA seemingly growing each day, but BGS leadership is completely clueless and keeps punching itself in the face with blunder after blunder. Not to mention its website design is stuck in the early 2000's. It's like BGS is content with just fading into obscurity.

Beckett is now owned by the same company who owns Southern Hobby (with the CEO being over both), which in and of itself is an utter disaster of a business with horrible customer service.

As golden of an opportunity as BGS has been handed for a comeback with this PSA scandal, there is a zero percent chance their leadership knows what to do with it.

[oddstuff]

Do they have the money to improve BGS even if they wanted to?

[inaka]

This all begs the question, when is SGC's Peter Steinberg's non-compete agreement officially expired, to allow him to lead/introduce a new grading company or join BGS/CGC to really pose a threat to PSA?

Non-competes are usually two-years in length, so at the earliest if it started when Collector Universe bought SGC, that would be as soon as February of 2026. But realistically, it's two years from when Pete left SGC, which may make it July of 2027. Damn. I hope it's the former and not the latter.

[SLGSports]

Not sure what the non-compete laws are in Florida, but in California non-competes have no value. Courts have decided that people need to be able to work... and in their area of expertise. I doubt any court would block him from going to Beckett or CGC.