8 Players on Contemporary Era HOF ballot announced. - Page 15

mfw13 · 12-07-2025, 09:30 PM

Kent in his six years with the Giants.....31.6 WAR (5.3 per year).

Jeff Kent's other 13 years....23.9 WAR (<2 WAR per year).

Anybody who watched Kent play knows that he benefitted tremendously from hitting in front of Bonds.....which makes it rather hypocritical to elect Kent while refusing to elect Bonds.

Kent probably finishes with around 40 WAR without Bonds' PED use.....

rats60 · 12-07-2025, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

They'll get in, particularly Bonds and Clemens. The attitude of PED's in general is changing with each passing generation. Gen Z don't really give a sh*t especially if they were mainly used for healing to come back from injuries. HOF members will pass and baseball writer's will be replaced.

2031 will be their last time on the ballot. After they get less than 5 votes again, they won't be eligible to appear on another Hall of Fame ballot. The Hall of Fame doesn't want steroid users. The players they cheated don't want steroid users in the HOF. Gen Z doesn't matter. Shoeless Joe Jackson has been waiting 90 years and he's still not in.

theshowandme · 12-07-2025, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfw13

Kent in his six years with the Giants.....31.6 WAR (5.3 per year).

Jeff Kent's other 13 years....23.9 WAR (<2 WAR per year).

Anybody who watched Kent play knows that he benefitted tremendously from hitting in front of Bonds.....which makes it rather hypocritical to elect Kent while refusing to elect Bonds.

Kent probably finishes with around 40 WAR without Bonds' PED use.....

What would his WAR be without his own PED use?

89Giants · 12-07-2025, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigantesfan

2003 Playoff Portraits (in an Astros uniform) is the only one I can think of

2001 sp game bat
2003 playoff portriats
2003 leaf limited

goyder43 · 12-07-2025, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

He was asked this during his interview on the MLB Network.

Giants.

I thought for sure we were getting Chief Wahoo’s mug on that cooperstown plaque

rwperu34 · 12-08-2025, 01:15 AM

What a friggin' joke. You don't walk someone else to get to the HOFer. You walk the HOFer to get to someone else.

I'm glad I didn't pay for my trip to the HOF when I went (hell, I got paid!). No more news consumption of this #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ either. You want to make the story about the best players not being in? Fine. I'm out.

Handsome Wes · 12-08-2025, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

What would his WAR be without his own PED use?

Shhhhh, not allowed to mention that

He denies it, of course

but he also denied breaking his arm while doing motorcycle tricks, so there you have it

rats60 · 12-08-2025, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

What would his WAR be without his own PED use?

What evidence do you have he used illegal steroids?

Stech36 · 12-08-2025, 08:18 AM

You know what one of my main takeaways is? I got his autograph at a game like 25 years ago. I’ve been displaying it upside down the entire time.

JustinVerlander07 · 12-08-2025, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

2031 will be their last time on the ballot. After they get less than 5 votes again, they won't be eligible to appear on another Hall of Fame ballot. The Hall of Fame doesn't want steroid users. The players they cheated don't want steroid users in the HOF. Gen Z doesn't matter. Shoeless Joe Jackson has been waiting 90 years and he's still not in.

If the HOF doesn't want steroid users in, why did they vote David Ortiz first ballot? Why did Pudge Rodriguez walk right in? All the guys who played back in the day using PEDs, why is that ok?

theshowandme · 12-08-2025, 08:45 AM

Cliff Floyd asked Kent last night what changed in his approach in 1997-1999 when the homers and RBI started to come in bunches.

This dude really said he started choking up on the bat 1/4 of an inch for better bat control…

That is so funny to me

I hope one day Bonds is able to admit it to the world and then exposes everybody as well.

2010GBPackers · 12-08-2025, 08:49 AM

The MLB HoF is a complete joke.

None of these committee voters said a damn word during the 1990-2010 steroid era, but now they want to sit on their high horse? Gimme a break.

Jeff Kent - laughable. Not only was he a middling player until he "magically" had peak-prime numbers during a normal athlete's athletic decline, but it also just happened to coincide with playing with a real HoFer - Barry Bonds (steroid use notwithstanding), AND let's not gloss over the fact that Dale Murphy was objectively the strongest candidate on the ballot (absent Bonds and Clemens).

Baseball dug their own hole, here, and they can put their head in the sand now, but they look like middling fools. To cap it off, Selig gets in, too!!!

Sorry, rats, Bonds, Clemens, Rose, and possibly Shoeless Joe will all be in one day. They were imperfect people, no doubt, but they didn't exist in a vacuum.

awz50 · 12-08-2025, 08:59 AM

I like how Barry Bonds wished him congratulations on Instagram

ScooterD · 12-08-2025, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

What would his WAR be without his own PED use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

What evidence do you have he used illegal steroids?

I’d like to know also - never seen proof of this. If you have it, please share. If you don’t or the “proof” is only circumstantial, you can admit that. You stated above that he used PEDs… show us

carlo16 · 12-08-2025, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

If the HOF doesn't want steroid users in, why did they vote David Ortiz first ballot? Why did Pudge Rodriguez walk right in? All the guys who played back in the day using PEDs, why is that ok?

I think people would have less of a problem if there was some consistency in the voters' stance on steroids.

JustinVerlander07 · 12-08-2025, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlo16

I think people would have less of a problem if there was some consistency in the voters' stance on steroids.

Absolutely. I don't know how if you are an anti-steriods person you can look at David Ortiz's numbers and not think it's fishy (also, he was in the Mitchell report). Dude was a league average hitter in Minnesota, goes to Boston (with noted steroid user Manny Ramirez!) and becomes one of the best hitters in Baseball. Get's to the late 2010s, is so bad he was probably a week or two from being out of Baseball, and eventually from ages 36-40 is as good as he's ever been. Sure.

I'm in the camp of letting steroid users in, especially if they are alleged or admitted to using pre 2005 when it wasn't against the rules. or if it's obvious steroids or no steroids they were a HOFer (Manny/ARod), but people like Rats sitting here saying no to Bonds but not a peep about Ortiz is as laughable and hypocritical as it gets.

rats60 · 12-08-2025, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Cliff Floyd asked Kent last night what changed in his approach in 1997-1999 when the homers and RBI started to come in bunches.

This dude really said he started choking up on the bat 1/4 of an inch for better bat control…

That is so funny to me

I hope one day Bonds is able to admit it to the world and then exposes everybody as well.

So nothing, got it. Jeff Kent was pushing for stricter testing and more severe penalties. Seems odd that you would think he was doping.

So Barry Bonds went from 19 to 33 in 1990, he must have started using steroids then too, correct?

Kent only went from 20 & 21 with the Mets to 23, 29 and 31 his first 3 years in SF. He also hit 27 in 2004 with Houston and 29 in 2005 with LA while being tested.

rats60 · 12-08-2025, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Absolutely. I don't know how if you are an anti-steriods person you can look at David Ortiz's numbers and not think it's fishy (also, he was in the Mitchell report). Dude was a league average hitter in Minnesota, goes to Boston (with noted steroid user Manny Ramirez!) and becomes one of the best hitters in Baseball. Get's to the late 2010s, is so bad he was probably a week or two from being out of Baseball, and eventually from ages 36-40 is as good as he's ever been. Sure.

I'm in the camp of letting steroid users in, especially if they are alleged or admitted to using pre 2005 when it wasn't against the rules. or if it's obvious steroids or no steroids they were a HOFer (Manny/ARod), but people like Rats sitting here saying no to Bonds but not a peep about Ortiz is as laughable and hypocritical as it gets.

You are a liar. I was the most anti-Ortiz person on this board before Ortiz was elected and you know it. You are the one who roots for cheaters.

JustinVerlander07 · 12-08-2025, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

If the HOF doesn't want steroid users in, why did they vote David Ortiz first ballot? Why did Pudge Rodriguez walk right in? All the guys who played back in the day using PEDs, why is that ok?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

You are a liar. I was the most anti-Ortiz person on this board before Ortiz was elected and you know it. You are the one who roots for cheaters.

Hootiefish · 12-08-2025, 10:58 AM

Steroid discussion notwithstanding (because none of us will ever get an answer that we are satisfied with), in what world is Jeff Kent a Hall of Famer but Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly and Lou Whitaker are not?

Murphy and Mattingly obviously didn't get in on this ballot. Whitaker (somehow) fell short a few years ago. Here are Kent's metrics when compared to the other three:

Kent: .290/.356/.500, 123 OPS+, 55.4 WAR; MVP, 4x Silver Slugger, 5x All Star

Whitaker: .276/.363/.426, 117 OPS+, 75.1 WAR; ROY, 4x Silver Slugger, 5x All Star, 3x Gold Glove

Murphy: .265/.346/.469, 121 OPS+, 46.5 WAR; 2x MVP, 4x Silver Slugger, 7x All Star, 5x Gold Glove

Mattingly: .307/.358/.471, 127 OPS+; MVP, 3x Silver Slugger, 6x All Star, 9x Gold Glove, Batting Title

Murphy and Mattingly both compare more favorably to their respective contemporaries than Kent does. Whitaker blows Kent away in terms of career WAR. None of them have the baggage (personality wise nor the Bonds-sized shadow) that Kent has.

Not saying all of these players deserve to be in the HOF. Maybe none of them do. Just saying they all have a better case than Jeff Kent.

JustinVerlander07 · 12-08-2025, 11:06 AM

The issue with this version of voting is the extreme bias of the committee. Not only is it mainly of players who don't know how to properly value numbers (this is the era of Wins, and RBI), it's more who do I like and who don't I like. And again, at the end of the day, all that has been done here is legit to set up Bonds and Clemens to not make the HOF, it's no conspiracy. MLB is changing the way you vote on HOF to get Clemens and Bonds out of there. It's why they changed voting from 15 years on the ballot to 10, and why they now have only 1 more cycle on this ballot before they can't be voted in in any capacity.

JRX · 12-08-2025, 11:06 AM

Because the standards vary by player. Its the dumbest hof process of any sport.

gmoney328 · 12-08-2025, 11:14 AM

The only thing that makes sense is that Kent did it as a 2B. That’s it. And if you’re using that as an argument to vote for him, Whitaker and Grich both need to be in as well.

The HOF is a mess.

Hootiefish · 12-08-2025, 11:21 AM

One more thing before I go outside and yell at some clouds ... it's a f*cking joke that Bud Selig - who profited from the steroid era by turning a blind eye to it - has a plaque in the HOF but Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, Sosa, etc. do not. His "leadership" damaged the public's trust in the sport more than any single player could have.

That being said, we live in a world where the NFL Hall of Fame had to invent a rule to get Paul Tagliabue inducted because no one was going to vote in the man who single-handedly minimized the concussion issue for two decades, so none of it matters, I guess.

erock28 · 12-08-2025, 12:07 PM

Jeff Kent, while not someone I would have elected, doesn't put a black eye on the Hall IMO. It's trended toward being bigger/more elections...and Kent is one of the better hitting second basemen of all time. All that said, Kent to me is a HOVG guy. Was never a guy who I viewed as a top 5 player in baseball. No bold ink. Got an MVP, which while deserved wasn't exactly an epic season, but only 3 other top-10 finishes and only 5 ASGs. He benefited from being able to play at a fairly high level until he was 40.

On the flip side, guys like Mattingly, Murphy, and more recently Johan Santana (I'm sure there are many others) are getting the shaft. These guys were absolute elite players in their prime - arguably the best in their league for a 4-5 year stretch - only to be cut down by injury. Loads of bold ink, annual contenders/winners of the MVP/CY awards, true 'best in baseball' types. I understand you can't assume anything statistically, but it seems Mattingly's 1987 back injury, Murphy's 1989 knee injuries, and Santana's 2011 shoulder surgery aren't taken into consideration enough. If guys like Jeff Kent, Alan Trammell, etc. are getting in - it's way past the time to get the injured superstars in.

12-08-2025, 01:15 AM	#356
rwperu34 Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 8,379	What a friggin' joke. You don't walk someone else to get to the HOFer. You walk the HOFer to get to someone else. I'm glad I didn't pay for my trip to the HOF when I went (hell, I got paid!). No more news consumption of this #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ either. You want to make the story about the best players not being in? Fine. I'm out. __________________ Me: Did I win? Gixen: Yes. You won. Now you're broke.

12-08-2025, 08:49 AM	#362
2010GBPackers Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 4,346	The MLB HoF is a complete joke. None of these committee voters said a damn word during the 1990-2010 steroid era, but now they want to sit on their high horse? Gimme a break. Jeff Kent - laughable. Not only was he a middling player until he "magically" had peak-prime numbers during a normal athlete's athletic decline, but it also just happened to coincide with playing with a real HoFer - Barry Bonds (steroid use notwithstanding), AND let's not gloss over the fact that Dale Murphy was objectively the strongest candidate on the ballot (absent Bonds and Clemens). Baseball dug their own hole, here, and they can put their head in the sand now, but they look like middling fools. To cap it off, Selig gets in, too!!! Sorry, rats, Bonds, Clemens, Rose, and possibly Shoeless Joe will all be in one day. They were imperfect people, no doubt, but they didn't exist in a vacuum. __________________ "And more and more and more and more And more of less than ever before It's just too much more for your mind to absorb" - Yasiin Bey (Mos Def) Instagram: 2010gbpackers

12-08-2025, 08:59 AM	#363
awz50 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: New Hampshire>>>Arizona>>>>Florida Posts: 33,404 awz50	I like how Barry Bonds wished him congratulations on Instagram __________________ Collecting Baseball Hof Autographs 248/351 Blowouts Official Red Sox face of the franchise Eduardo Rodriguez Super Collector

12-08-2025, 11:06 AM	#371
JustinVerlander07 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: michigan Posts: 17,366 gladdyontherise gladdyontherise	The issue with this version of voting is the extreme bias of the committee. Not only is it mainly of players who don't know how to properly value numbers (this is the era of Wins, and RBI), it's more who do I like and who don't I like. And again, at the end of the day, all that has been done here is legit to set up Bonds and Clemens to not make the HOF, it's no conspiracy. MLB is changing the way you vote on HOF to get Clemens and Bonds out of there. It's why they changed voting from 15 years on the ballot to 10, and why they now have only 1 more cycle on this ballot before they can't be voted in in any capacity. __________________ Collecting Justin Verlander, Detroit Tigers, Michigan State Spartans, Miz, Jey Uso, Kelani Jordan, Macho Man, WWE "Cavs in 7. Write it down"

12-08-2025, 11:21 AM	#374
Hootiefish Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 1,069 Hootiefish	One more thing before I go outside and yell at some clouds ... it's a fcking joke that Bud Selig - who profited from the steroid era by turning a blind eye to it - has a plaque in the HOF but Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, Sosa, etc. do not. His "leadership" damaged the public's trust in the sport more than any single player could have. That being said, we live in a world where the NFL Hall of Fame had to invent a rule to get Paul Tagliabue inducted because no one was going to vote in the man who single-handedly minimized the concussion issue for two decades, so none of it matters, I guess. Last edited by Hootiefish; 12-08-2025 at 11:23 AM.*

12-07-2025, 09:30 PM	#351
mfw13 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 17,565	Kent in his six years with the Giants.....31.6 WAR (5.3 per year). Jeff Kent's other 13 years....23.9 WAR (<2 WAR per year). Anybody who watched Kent play knows that he benefitted tremendously from hitting in front of Bonds.....which makes it rather hypocritical to elect Kent while refusing to elect Bonds. Kent probably finishes with around 40 WAR without Bonds' PED use.....

12-08-2025, 08:18 AM	#359
Stech36 Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Westminster, MD Posts: 9,550 Stech36	You know what one of my main takeaways is? I got his autograph at a game like 25 years ago. I’ve been displaying it upside down the entire time.

12-08-2025, 08:45 AM	#361
theshowandme Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 5,079 theshowandme nova_cards	Cliff Floyd asked Kent last night what changed in his approach in 1997-1999 when the homers and RBI started to come in bunches. This dude really said he started choking up on the bat 1/4 of an inch for better bat control… That is so funny to me I hope one day Bonds is able to admit it to the world and then exposes everybody as well.

12-08-2025, 10:58 AM	#370
Hootiefish Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 1,069 Hootiefish	Steroid discussion notwithstanding (because none of us will ever get an answer that we are satisfied with), in what world is Jeff Kent a Hall of Famer but Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly and Lou Whitaker are not? Murphy and Mattingly obviously didn't get in on this ballot. Whitaker (somehow) fell short a few years ago. Here are Kent's metrics when compared to the other three: Kent: .290/.356/.500, 123 OPS+, 55.4 WAR; MVP, 4x Silver Slugger, 5x All Star Whitaker: .276/.363/.426, 117 OPS+, 75.1 WAR; ROY, 4x Silver Slugger, 5x All Star, 3x Gold Glove Murphy: .265/.346/.469, 121 OPS+, 46.5 WAR; 2x MVP, 4x Silver Slugger, 7x All Star, 5x Gold Glove Mattingly: .307/.358/.471, 127 OPS+; MVP, 3x Silver Slugger, 6x All Star, 9x Gold Glove, Batting Title Murphy and Mattingly both compare more favorably to their respective contemporaries than Kent does. Whitaker blows Kent away in terms of career WAR. None of them have the baggage (personality wise nor the Bonds-sized shadow) that Kent has. Not saying all of these players deserve to be in the HOF. Maybe none of them do. Just saying they all have a better case than Jeff Kent.

12-08-2025, 11:06 AM	#372
JRX Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 15,924	Because the standards vary by player. Its the dumbest hof process of any sport.

12-08-2025, 11:14 AM	#373
gmoney328 Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Navarre, Florida Posts: 4,190	The only thing that makes sense is that Kent did it as a 2B. That’s it. And if you’re using that as an argument to vote for him, Whitaker and Grich both need to be in as well. The HOF is a mess.

12-08-2025, 12:07 PM	#375
erock28 Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Oak Creek, WI Posts: 2,524 topnotchcards28	Jeff Kent, while not someone I would have elected, doesn't put a black eye on the Hall IMO. It's trended toward being bigger/more elections...and Kent is one of the better hitting second basemen of all time. All that said, Kent to me is a HOVG guy. Was never a guy who I viewed as a top 5 player in baseball. No bold ink. Got an MVP, which while deserved wasn't exactly an epic season, but only 3 other top-10 finishes and only 5 ASGs. He benefited from being able to play at a fairly high level until he was 40. On the flip side, guys like Mattingly, Murphy, and more recently Johan Santana (I'm sure there are many others) are getting the shaft. These guys were absolute elite players in their prime - arguably the best in their league for a 4-5 year stretch - only to be cut down by injury. Loads of bold ink, annual contenders/winners of the MVP/CY awards, true 'best in baseball' types. I understand you can't assume anything statistically, but it seems Mattingly's 1987 back injury, Murphy's 1989 knee injuries, and Santana's 2011 shoulder surgery aren't taken into consideration enough. If guys like Jeff Kent, Alan Trammell, etc. are getting in - it's way past the time to get the injured superstars in.