Topps “Dutch” Auction

[Bob Ross]

Fvcking nightmare.

[itsbaytime]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Defensive Buying?

Lol. These #@#@#@#@#@#@#@s are done with us.

[finfangfan]

If they are going the Dutch auction route, I would have preferred the Zerocool/Luber take on Dutch auctions. We will see how the first set in this format does.

[PoPCulture]

[Archimedes]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

If they are going the Dutch auction route, I would have preferred the Zerocool/Luber take on Dutch auctions. We will see how the first set in this format does.

What was that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[finfangfan]

Originally Posted by Archimedes

What was that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Basically price for all products is set by the highest offer on the last available box of an offering. So if there were 500 boxes of a product and 499 bid $200 and the 500th put in a bid of $100 … all 500 boxes would be sold for $100 clearing price.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

Basically price for all products is set by the highest offer on the last available box of an offering. So if there were 500 boxes of a product and 499 bid $200 and the 500th put in a bid of $100 … all 500 boxes would be sold for $100 clearing price.

Which is never going to happen with Topps.

[prospectorgems]

Apologize if someone said this already and I missed it.

I never participated in Panini's dutch auctions so I have no idea what works and what doesn't.

In theory though, dutch auctions would not prevent bots from still swooping in and grabbing all of the remaining product, right? Per my understanding, bots can be set up for a certain price point and if it hits I would think then bots would eat up the remaining product.

I am sure topps isn't setting this up to allow us non-bots to buy product but to be forced to buy product higher and then once the product hits X level the bots consume the rest so Topps is out nothing, in fact they gain a lot more.

[RainCityShecks]

Disgusting. Never thought that I'd rather take my chances with or prefer the potentially sketchy EQL, but, I'd rather see it all go EQL than this. RIP getting premium/desired products at decent pricing. It's the whole reason I avoided any Panini products like the plague. I also refuse to participate in breaks or purchase anything above MSRP.

[mfw13]

As the computer once said in WarGames, "the best move is not to play"......

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by RainCityShecks

Disgusting. Never thought that I'd rather take my chances with or prefer the potentially sketchy EQL, but, I'd rather see it all go EQL than this. RIP getting premium/desired products at decent pricing. It's the whole reason I avoided any Panini products like the plague. I also refuse to participate in breaks or purchase anything above MSRP.

Exactly. Allow me to revisit one of my posts from August:

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Worst to best (loose term) methods for releases:

99) Dutch oven
98) EQL
.
.
.
.
1) FCFS

[boxbuster7]

The whole industry is going to implode because of greed

[njsportscardguy]

You can bet your as; any "tool" or "feature", which Topps/Fanatics decides to implement on their website(s), will NEVER be done so to be of direct-benefit to us,...the consumer. NEVER in a million years! Rather, it's commensurate with their clear & obvious intents of [ONLY!] BEING GREEDY! (aka. they got us by the you-know-whats; they know it, you [should] know it!)

I'm as red, white, & blue... capitalistic-minded, as any other patriotic American. However, the course for which these billionaires & hundreds-of-millions-aires are steering our hobby ship is just undeniably,....




With virtually every, mid-tier to premium release, they're making it more & more blatantly obvious. They DON'T WANT...."lil' fellas"..."playing" any more! No need for the guy whose been in the hobby....40+ years, whose budget is (example) a few hundred to a couple thousand...a month, and just wants a random box/case or two...here & there! They want folks who have NO QUALMS about droppin' THOUSANDS, A DAY! And what's the easiest way for them to realize this..."business model"...?!? Make it virtually IMPOSSIBLE for the overwhelming-majority of Average Joes,...to procure any of their mid-tier/premium products (be it through a BOT-ruled, crash-filled, traditional pre-sale drop,...a bogus-EQL,...or a manipulable Dutch auction) thereby allocating the bulk of said products,...to BREAKERS WHO BREAK ON THEIR PLATFORM! It's a "win-win-win" (and win, some more!) for Topps/Fanatics, and it's undoubtedly, exactly what their intentions are for our hobby! "Buy into our breaks,...with US/OUR PEOPLE, and if you don't want to; FINE! Go, kick-rocks,...'cuz someone else,...will (buy into our breaks!)!"

In layman's terms - we're being SQUEEZED-OUT of the hobby. Directly or indirectly, is a moot point. If you don't see the writing on the wall, well; there's nothing I, nor anyone, could say or do to make you realize as such. Ya' know the 'ole saying. You can't make a blind man, see. But, believe me! Unless it's (example) Flagship, Bowman, Heritage, paper products, Topps/Fanatics....doesn't want you getting your grimy hands on ANY of..."the good stuff"! But, of course; they..."have to" allow for a lil' pee-dribbles worth of it, to "hit-the-streets".

Anywho...

[Bosoxfan5990]

Holy cow.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by yoyosh

I was told Fanatics being a monopoly was going to be great?

Just wait until they do NFL. Then it will be great.


Oops. We shouldn’t be complaining.

[crdbored]

Originally Posted by BayAreaChris

Didn’t they do it for one release only? Some sapphire release?

They did it with 2023 Bowman Sapphire Baseball with a start price of $850.

It did not go over well with the baseball crowd but the basketball and football bros will have no issue with this.

Fanatics has been planning this for a while. 10x!!!!

[Bob Ross]

You know what will be super cool? When distributors and breakers still have a direct channel of access to items that will be "dutch" for the public. Even cooler, breakers will still infiltrate the "dutch" auctions for more product because they can justify paying the higher prices, taking stock before it gets to reeasonable prices for the public.

Can't wait!

[mossoholic]

For everyone complaining, most on BO as per usual, realistically how do you expect Topps to sell in demand products going forward? What is a better option than an auction that benefits Topps, the average buyer, and the overall future growth of the hobby? It may not benefit you personally but any type of auction, hopefully fair auctions, are the best option. Any person can now buy any product directly from Topps. As much as they want by the box or case. You no longer have to worry about bots as long as the price starts high enough. We have a 6 year history of Panini auctions proving bots will not take risks. The fair auction part we don't know yet. If they are fair it will eliminate direct members/breakers buying at money tree prices under the table.

I'd love to see if there is a single person here that can come up with a better method for Topps to sell in demand products. I've mentioned one a few times but it really doesn't benefit growth of the hobby but for sure helps Topps and the average buyer that could get in on the plans. Any type of auction is still a better route.

[hermanotarjeta]

Who is going to end up with all the product?

1. Breakers
2. Box flipper bois, who will sell to breakers
3. Big 3, who will sell to breakers

Solution:

If you want to continue participating in this hobby, your only choice is to buy singles and open what breakers don’t want, ie flagship or heritage, or get into breaks.

Enjoy your hobby!

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

For everyone complaining, most on BO as per usual, realistically how do you expect Topps to sell in demand products going forward? What is a better option than an auction that benefits Topps, the average buyer, and the overall future growth of the hobby? It may not benefit you personally but any type of auction, hopefully fair auctions, are the best option. Any person can now buy any product directly from Topps. As much as they want by the box or case. You no longer have to worry about bots as long as the price starts high enough. We have a 6 year history of Panini auctions proving bots will not take risks. The fair auction part we don't know yet. If they are fair it will eliminate direct members/breakers buying at money tree prices under the table.

I'd love to see if there is a single person here that can come up with a better method for Topps to sell in demand products. I've mentioned one a few times but it really doesn't benefit growth of the hobby but for sure helps Topps and the average buyer that could get in on the plans. Any type of auction is still a better route.

Aren't you the one who has always said the manufacturers should release all their product direct to the public via auction format? And this way, they'll make the most money?

But it seems like with dutch auction, they'll only release a limited amount of product -- a sampling to set initial prices -- and release the bulk of it to breaker members and the rest of it at a later date after prices rise.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Aren't you the one who has always said the manufacturers should release all their product direct to the public via auction format? And this way, they'll make the most money?

But it seems like with dutch auction, they'll only release a limited amount of product -- a sampling to set initial prices -- and release the bulk of it to breaker members and the rest of it at a later date after prices rise.

That's mostly what Ive been saying in this thread and posting for years. I don't think every product but certainly the ones with 20k or less print runs.

Im not sure where you are getting that the dutch auction format means Topps will only release a limited amount of product. We don't know yet how they are going to do it. Panini used to sell almost the entire inventory during auctions in 2019-2021. In late 2021 they stopped doing that. They now backdoor a bunch of product before the auctions at agreed upon prices which are always either going to be the sellout price or more likely below that. How much they are selling during the auctions has depended on how much is presold. Based on what Ive seen even the lowest amounts Panini have had during auctions are a higher percentage than every single in demand product Topps has alotted for EQL and their website releases. It's probably not even close.

What you mentioned about limiting products at release and the back door bs later on is what Topps has been doing all year with EQL and releases on Topps website. Realistically, Im not sure how them running auctions is going to make this worse. They have the licenses long term. Maybe they finally care about the long term of the industry and aren't going to be so shortsighted.

[auctionjmm]

This thread has certainly exposed the "real" gamblers. Those who prefer EQL or fighting bots to have a 1% chance at getting the product at MSRP seem mad about this. That's the gambler mentality. I "might" have a chance at MSRP, even if it's a tiny percent.

The smart ones recognize that locking in at a price you are comfortable with, even if paying above MSRP, gives you all of the control. You can choose the products you want to buy at the price you are comfortable with. And if the price is too high to open, you can always sell.

The early years of Panini FOTL were gold. You pay 1K for NT that used to be $250 but can sell it for 2K. Why complain about that?

Topps can certainly screw it up if they only do small test runs, but if they were to release an entire product line, such as Sapphire BKB, through Dutch auction, I think most who got in would be very happy.

I rarely agree with Moss but breakers and flippers don't want to gamble. It makes them nervous. And breakers don't need to gamble. Even if the product closes at $500 and re-sells for $800, they can buy as much as they want at $800 and break it for $1200. Its safer for them that way. Play the game right and you'll be supplying the breakers you despise while padding your own pockets in the process and using the proceeds to buy whatever you want.

[boxbuster7]

dutch auction is just a layer of psychological warfare that isn't fair to the consumer

it is nothing more than a tactic to scam dumb people out of more money

[phil]

As someone who has never won a single profitable item EQL this can't possibly be worse

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

Basically price for all products is set by the highest offer on the last available box of an offering. So if there were 500 boxes of a product and 499 bid $200 and the 500th put in a bid of $100 … all 500 boxes would be sold for $100 clearing price.

My LCS said they were notified of the dutch auction system by Topps and supposedly this is what's going to happen.

According to the shop owner, Topps' thinking is they expect most everyone to jump in early to secure product and by doing so, the product will sell out fast, which will raise the initial offering price.

We'll see what happens, but I'd prefer if Topps did it this way and I think it is actually advantageous for both the buyer and seller rather than do it the Panini way.