8 Players on Contemporary Era HOF ballot announced.

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by robert0629

There’s no reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Players from earlier decades were taking amphetamines or “greenies”. Amphetamines are PEDs. The use of amphetamines was rampant in baseball after WWII. Hank Aaron once admitted that he tried them once, but never again because it made him feel like he was having a heart attack. He was probably telling the truth, but it’s interesting that fans don’t seem to care about this. If Albert Pujols came out and said he tried steroids once, his career would be flushed down the toilet.

I googled “why did MLB ban amphetamines?” One piece of information I got was - “amphetamines mask fatigue and increase alertness, aggressiveness, and reaction time, creating an unfair advantage”. The same fans who are overly critical of players like Bonds and Clemens, likely hold in high regard Hall of Fame players who also cheated by taking “greenies” during their careers.

A few examples of some recent players who benefitted from the use of amphetamines are Chris Davis and Aubrey Huff. Davis received a therapeutic-use exemption from baseball which allowed him to take Adderall for ADHD. Davis had two big home run seasons during this time, hitting 53 in one and 47 in another. He likely benefitted from a PED which led to him signing one of the worst contracts in MLB history. Aubrey Huff who also took Adderall under MLB’s therapeutic-use exemption helped lead the San Francisco Giants to a World Series victory. Huff has been very open about his addiction to Adderall in his book - “Baseball Junkie: The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of a World Series Champion”. About Adderall, Huff said, “I think in a lot of ways, Adderall is more potent than any steroid you can take because, as you know, baseball is a game of mental toughness, and Adderall gets into your head and makes you feel invincible”.

Everyone took greenies, right? ("Leaded" coffee in the clubhouse)

How many took designer steroids? Much less.

Thats the difference.

Nobody's gonna pay much attention to Aubrey Huff and his 242 "PED" aided HRs.

But you seem to be a "all PEDs are the same" kinda guy and that's fine.

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[wharfrat7624]

Bonds & Clemens are definite HOFrs!


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[wharfrat7624]

Originally Posted by robert0629

There’s no reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Players from earlier decades were taking amphetamines or “greenies”. Amphetamines are PEDs. The use of amphetamines was rampant in baseball after WWII. Hank Aaron once admitted that he tried them once, but never again because it made him feel like he was having a heart attack. He was probably telling the truth, but it’s interesting that fans don’t seem to care about this. If Albert Pujols came out and said he tried steroids once, his career would be flushed down the toilet.

I googled “why did MLB ban amphetamines?” One piece of information I got was - “amphetamines mask fatigue and increase alertness, aggressiveness, and reaction time, creating an unfair advantage”. The same fans who are overly critical of players like Bonds and Clemens, likely hold in high regard Hall of Fame players who also cheated by taking “greenies” during their careers.

A few examples of some recent players who benefitted from the use of amphetamines are Chris Davis and Aubrey Huff. Davis received a therapeutic-use exemption from baseball which allowed him to take Adderall for ADHD. Davis had two big home run seasons during this time, hitting 53 in one and 47 in another. He likely benefitted from a PED which led to him signing one of the worst contracts in MLB history. Aubrey Huff who also took Adderall under MLB’s therapeutic-use exemption helped lead the San Francisco Giants to a World Series victory. Huff has been very open about his addiction to Adderall in his book - “Baseball Junkie: The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of a World Series Champion”. About Adderall, Huff said, “I think in a lot of ways, Adderall is more potent than any steroid you can take because, as you know, baseball is a game of mental toughness, and Adderall gets into your head and makes you feel invincible”.

Agreed - Mays, Aaron, Mantle and Schmidt to name a few are admitted amphetamine users.




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[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by abaseballjunkie

Bonds admitted PED use? Where? You might be confusing him with Big Mac or Sosa?

He said he used the cream and clear but thought they were flaxseed oil

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[jdandns]

Originally Posted by mozzie

Nobody that ever watched Don Mattingly play could doubt he is HOF caliber. He has nearly identical stats to Kirby Puckett and both retired due to injuries. Also, I hear a lot of support for Kenny Lofton but none for Jim Edmonds. I find this odd. Compare their numbers and it is obvious Edmonds was the better player... not to mention Andruw Jones.

The poor effort Andruw Jones put forth over the final 5 seasons he played should keep him out. How many Hall of Famers does a wildly underperforming team like 1990's and 2000's Atlanta need anyway? They already got a team executive, a manager, a third baseman, and three pitchers inducted for the one title they managed to win. That's enough for them.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by hxcmilkshake

Everyone took greenies, right? ("Leaded" coffee in the clubhouse)

How many took designer steroids? Much less.

Thats the difference.

Nobody's gonna pay much attention to Aubrey Huff and his 242 "PED" aided HRs.

But you seem to be a "all PEDs are the same" kinda guy and that's fine.

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They also conveniently leave out Bonds tested positive for Amphetamines as well. His story was he stole some “unknown” pills out of Mark Sweeney’s locker and took them. What a guy.

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/articl...es-2657825.php

[abaseballjunkie]

Originally Posted by hxcmilkshake

Everyone took greenies, right? ("Leaded" coffee in the clubhouse)

How many took designer steroids? Much less.

Thats the difference.

Nobody's gonna pay much attention to Aubrey Huff and his 242 "PED" aided HRs.

But you seem to be a "all PEDs are the same" kinda guy and that's fine.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

So now regular steroids that the majority of players used don't count and only "designer" steroids are bad?

Hope your back doesn't give out movin' those goalposts...

[abaseballjunkie]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

He said he used the cream and clear but thought they were flaxseed oil

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Ahhh that's right.

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by abaseballjunkie

So now regular steroids that the majority of players used don't count and only "designer" steroids are bad?



Hope your back doesn't give out movin' those goalposts...

Well, there were 89 players on the Mitchell report, sure there were more but they didn't even investigate greenie usage since it was so rampant and even accepted for decades.

To me comparing the 2 is silly but I also know this entire argument is like arguing politics or religion.

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[jduds]

Originally Posted by jdandns

The poor effort Andruw Jones put forth over the final 5 seasons he played should keep him out. How many Hall of Famers does a wildly underperforming team like 1990's and 2000's Atlanta need anyway? They already got a team executive, a manager, a third baseman, and three pitchers inducted for the one title they managed to win. That's enough for them.

Those are four easy first ballot HOF players and a unanimous committee selection with Cox. Those guys aren't in just because they were on the Braves in the 90s, and if Andruw Jones gets in this year, he'll get in because he's the best defensive centerfielder of the last 50 years who was also a decent hitter, and not because of any Braves overrepresentation.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by jduds

Those are four easy first ballot HOF players and a unanimous committee selection with Cox. Those guys aren't in just because they were on the Braves in the 90s, and if Andruw Jones gets in this year, he'll get in because he's the best defensive centerfielder of the last 50 years who was also a decent hitter, and not because of any Braves overrepresentation.

When you're electing guys like Harold Baines and Dave Parker, you can't tell me that 10 Gold Gloves with 400+ HR and 60+ WAR shouldn't be in the HOF.

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by mfw13

When you're electing guys like Harold Baines and Dave Parker, you can't tell me that 10 Gold Gloves with 400+ HR and 60+ WAR shouldn't be in the HOF.

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by mfw13

When you're electing guys like Harold Baines and Dave Parker, you can't tell me that 10 Gold Gloves with 400+ HR and 60+ WAR shouldn't be in the HOF.

A key distinction is that those guys didn't sleepwalk through their last 5 seasons like Jones did, literally stealing the money he tricked teams into paying him. His lack of effort during that span was no less shameful than the various cheaters when they turned themselves into monsters. At least they got results, though.
Andruw could have at least tried HGH or steroids.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by jdandns

A key distinction is that those guys didn't sleepwalk through their last 5 seasons like Jones did, literally stealing the money he tricked teams into paying him. His lack of effort during that span was no less shameful than the various cheaters when they turned themselves into monsters. At least they got results, though.
Andruw could have at least tried HGH or steroids.

Not sure what your point is.....HOF candidacy's are evaluated based on a player's entire career, not a specific subset of seasons.

I think the real reason is that HOF voters tend to undervalue defense....look at how long it took guys like Andre Dawson (8 Gold Gloves, elected on his 9th ballot), Larry Walker (7 Gold Gloves, elected on his 10th ballot), and Scott Rolen (8 Gold Gloves, elected on his 6th ballot) to get elected. All defensive studs who were also excellent offensive players.

Keith Hernandez (11 Gold Gloves), Mattingly (8 Gold Gloves), Jim Edmonds (8 Gold Gloves), and Dwight Evans (8 Gold Gloves) have never even gotten anywhere close to getting elected despite being defensive studs AND finishing with a career OPS+ over 125.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by mfw13

When you're electing guys like Harold Baines and Dave Parker, you can't tell me that 10 Gold Gloves with 400+ HR and 60+ WAR shouldn't be in the HOF.

Originally Posted by jdandns

A key distinction is that those guys didn't sleepwalk through their last 5 seasons like Jones did, literally stealing the money he tricked teams into paying him. His lack of effort during that span was no less shameful than the various cheaters when they turned themselves into monsters. At least they got results, though.
Andruw could have at least tried HGH or steroids.

Are you claiming Jones shouldn't get in on the character clause, because he didn't hustle enough? Either Jones deserves to get in on his merits/stats or he doesn't. Who cares if didn't play super hard in his later years.

[jdandns]

I myself am not a voter, and have no pull or sway with Hall of Fame voters, but Jones should stay out, for the way he dishonored the game over the final third of his career. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by jdandns

I myself am not a voter, and have no pull or sway with Hall of Fame voters, but Jones should stay out, for the way he dishonored the game over the final third of his career. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

Nope though

[PeteD]

Originally Posted by mfw13

When you're electing guys like Harold Baines and Dave Parker, you can't tell me that 10 Gold Gloves with 400+ HR and 60+ WAR shouldn't be in the HOF.

Not to mention he played when there was a majority of astro turf and he would routinely stretch out to make a catch. No problem here to put him in the hall.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by jdandns

I myself am not a voter, and have no pull or sway with Hall of Fame voters, but Jones should stay out, for the way he dishonored the game over the final third of his career. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

There are a lot of dumb/irrational posts on this site, this one is pretty far up there.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by jdandns

I myself am not a voter, and have no pull or sway with Hall of Fame voters, but Jones should stay out, for the way he dishonored the game over the final third of his career. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

He really only screwed the Dodgers -- he gave the White Sox and Yankees what they paid for:

2010 White Sox: .827 OPS, 19 HR, 328 PA, 1.9 bWAR, $500,000 salary

2011-12 Yankees: .769 OPS, 27 HR, 491 PA, 1.1 bWAR, $3.5 million salary

I'm not sure why the Dodgers thought it was a good idea to pay him $36.2 million after he hit .222/.311/.413 his last season with the Braves. He was already looking pudgy.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

He really only screwed the Dodgers -- he gave the White Sox and Yankees what they paid for:

2010 White Sox: .827 OPS, 19 HR, 328 PA, 1.9 bWAR, $500,000 salary

2011-12 Yankees: .769 OPS, 27 HR, 491 PA, 1.1 bWAR, $3.5 million salary

I'm not sure why the Dodgers thought it was a good idea to pay him $36.2 million after he hit .222/.311/.413 his last season with the Braves. He was already looking pudgy.

People tend to forget Jones became a very good platoon bat for a couple years. His HOF chances are hurt by the fact his peak ended so young. If he had came to the majors at 23, had the same career in total (so his time in Atlanta ends at 34 instead of 30), and his career ends at 39 instead of 35 I think he's already in the hall, because he was that great.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

People tend to forget Jones became a very good platoon bat for a couple years. His HOF chances are hurt by the fact his peak ended so young. If he had came to the majors at 23, had the same career in total (so his time in Atlanta ends at 34 instead of 30), and his career ends at 39 instead of 35 I think he's already in the hall, because he was that great.

The thing I remember most about Jones is his two home runs against the Yankees in game 1 of the 1996 World Series -- he was a baby-faced 19-year-old kid.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by jdandns

I myself am not a voter, and have no pull or sway with Hall of Fame voters, but Jones should stay out, for the way he dishonored the game over the final third of his career. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

Did Andruw Jones steal your girlfriend or something, man?

He would get my vote for the Hall, especially when you factor in their lowered standards these days.

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

There are a lot of dumb/irrational posts on this site, this one is pretty far up there.

Blowout administrators should look into this disgraceful post and the others like it, or else they won't have a Forum.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by jdandns

Blowout administrators should look into this disgraceful post and the others like it, or else they won't have a Forum.

The ability to determine humorous posts died out on these forums long ago.