PSA no longer represents the best ROI (a data analysis)

[inaka]

Originally Posted by Blazed

How is that possible when the graders don't know whose cards they're grading?

You actually believe that?
Did you see Ryan Hoge and Geoff Wilson opening/grading 1975 Topps cards at the National this year? See the grades? No way ordinary folks get those grades, and they most definitely knew who the cards belonged to. C'mon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgz1IxQl7o8

A PSA 10 for a Del Uncer and Larry Dierker card...and Ryan just happens to need those for his set registry. Wow, how lucky?

"I think I'm interested in these two cards!" - Ryan Hoge.
"Those are for you for your set" (gives him the cards) - Geoff Wilson

Wow, what are the odds?? C',mon man.

Look at the backs and how off-center the two cards that Geoff Wilson/Ryan Hoge got GEM MINT PSA 10s on:

(And check out the stain on the red area to the right of "Hollywood":





No way anyone else is getting a PSA 10 on those. Completely off-center on the backs, a stain on one of them, but hey, Ryan Hoge needed those for his set registry. GEM MINT 10s all around!

[Gary]

Post the front of the Unser the zoom in on the upper right corner,then the Dierker check the top center.total inside job.......i have an 8 ...75 crawford thats as nice and maybe better than both those cards and mine was graded years ago cert number 42354672 i have picture but for whatever reason this site wont let me upload it from my laptop has to be a url.

[Gary]

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/loayy...=pi70ggpt&dl=0

hopefully that worked

[Gary]

Again not sure if the link is working but if so heres an SGC 8.5 Rule RC for comparison

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/k6vu0...=gphhxkeb&dl=0

[SLGSports]

Believe it or not, the left-right centering on both cards actually meets PSA 10 guidelines (I measured 67:33 and 69:31 on them)... but the rest has to be perfect. The one with the stain clearly was misgraded. Maybe a coincidence, but I've never sent a stained vintage card in and got a 10.

[rttrffg2012]

I got an order back this weekend. I got absolutely killed with the grades. I’m a lifetime 75% PSA 10 getter. I’ve been getting lower and lower grades for 2 years. This order, . I got a couple fours a couple twos and a couple altered. I’m so done with PSA. I don’t want to buy the cards. I don’t wanna submit. I am out.

Anyone selling me PSA slabs is getting 40% comp offers

[rttrffg2012]

Originally Posted by PLB9eight

Exactly. It’s my biggest gripe with PSA is that a card that meets a certain standard isn’t given that grade. It’s not rocket science.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are describing corruption at PSA and I agree
It’s unfair and unsustainable. Walking away is the best option. They are corrupt liars.

[SLGSports]

My thoughts exactly... I (regrettably) chose PSA for my entire PC, but I'm so done with them. All my cards go to CGC now and I'm slowing switching all my cards over to CGC. They're up and coming in terms of sports card market share and their slabs look great. They give higher grades, and are worth more than the low grades PSA is giving out. And they don't damage every third card either.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by SLGSports

My thoughts exactly... I (regrettably) chose PSA for my entire PC, but I'm so done with them. All my cards go to CGC now and I'm slowing switching all my cards over to CGC. They're up and coming in terms of sports card market share and their slabs look great. They give higher grades, and are worth more than the low grades PSA is giving out. And they don't damage every third card either.

This is great, more of us collectors need to walk away from PSA or at least give other companies equal footing. I am also moving things very slowly to CGC, but my collection is all SGC. CGC does have the best slab in the business. I am focusing on modern stuff and TTM autos (for JSA) first. My vintage HOF RCs in SGC holders are going to stay for time being.

[hammerva]

Apparently you aren't the only one because Gemrate is showing CGC as the clear #2 right now and rising. While PSA dropped. And not just in TCG as their biggest jump was in sports cards. Granted it is only 1 week of data and PSA is still the clear #1 grader by a wide margin but the talk about up charging did not help them as they probably hope

https://x.com/gemrate/status/1980475158767808624

[rttrffg2012]

Good . PSA’s time is running out

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by inaka

You actually believe that?
Did you see Ryan Hoge and Geoff Wilson opening/grading 1975 Topps cards at the National this year? See the grades? No way ordinary folks get those grades, and they most definitely knew who the cards belonged to. C'mon.

A PSA 10 for a Del Uncer and Larry Dierker card...and Ryan just happens to need those for his set registry. Wow, how lucky?

"I think I'm interested in these two cards!" - Ryan Hoge.
"Those are for you for your set" (gives him the cards) - Geoff Wilson

Wow, what are the odds?? C',mon man.

Look at the backs and how off-center the two cards that Geoff Wilson/Ryan Hoge got GEM MINT PSA 10s on:

(And check out the stain on the red area to the right of "Hollywood":

No way anyone else is getting a PSA 10 on those. Completely off-center on the backs, a stain on one of them, but hey, Ryan Hoge needed those for his set registry. GEM MINT 10s all around!

Rhetorical question

Geoff was just slamming PSA not long ago now PSA is the love of his life

It's obvious what goes on

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by rttrffg2012

I got an order back this weekend. I got absolutely killed with the grades. I’m a lifetime 75% PSA 10 getter. I’ve been getting lower and lower grades for 2 years. This order, . I got a couple fours a couple twos and a couple altered. I’m so done with PSA. I don’t want to buy the cards. I don’t wanna submit. I am out.

Anyone selling me PSA slabs is getting 40% comp offers

Nice crash out

I laughed

[88horsepower]

I got an order back this week and got crushed. Absolutely gutted. A few 10s and a ton of 9s and 8s. No clue what the hell PSA is doing anymore. This was an order I sent in before I decided to terminate my subscription renewal. This order only adds more reason to leave and never look back. I'm so done with them. I used to get great grades back from PSA on my 80s and 90s cards, but those days appear to be long gone. Where once I used to get 50-60-70% PSA 10s, this order falls well below that standard at nearly 25%.

31 Cards Total
8 PSA 10s
13 PSA 9s
6 PSA 8s
1 PSA 7
2 N8 Miscut (no clue on these)

I'm not going to break even on this order, even if I decided to sell the 10s I planned to keep. PSA is a mess.

[majestik101]

I thought it was common knowledge that PSA stopped handing out 10 gem mints like candy quite a while ago.

[Oriole Way]

It's pretty wild to see PSA fumbling the ball so hard in real time. Such a greedy, out of touch, corrupt company that doesn't give a flying crap about its customers. And I say that as someone who still shamelessly submits, buys, and sells PSA slabs. But I'm rooting for their downfall - at least until they respond to their customers and make many needed changes.

I'm a big fan of CGC and am glad to see them clearly and rapidly gaining market share. Hope to see it continue. There's no reason they can't quickly surpass what SGC was prior to Collector's buying out SGC. It's inevitable at this point, and PSA has made it much easier than it should have been.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by majestik101

I thought it was common knowledge that PSA stopped handing out 10 gem mints like candy quite a while ago.

I'm not expecting them to hand out 10s like candy. I do expect PSA to accurately assess the cards being sent, handle them with care, and have more consistency when it comes to the grades being assigned.

They are failing at all three of these elements.

Originally Posted by Oriole Way

It's pretty wild to see PSA fumbling the ball so hard in real time. Such a greedy, out of touch, corrupt company that doesn't give a flying crap about its customers. And I say that as someone who still shamelessly submits, buys, and sells PSA slabs. But I'm rooting for their downfall - at least until they respond to their customers and make many needed changes.

While I'm not going to put energy into hoping for PSA to fail, I would not shed a tear for them if their hubris got the best of them.

[wickedliquids]

I appreciate this thread; I'm winding down my collection and have done so over the years, all due to preparing for my kids to enter college in a decade. Due to turn around time, cost, etc, I've been wanting to finalize grading my cards and I get it, as a long time collector, PSA has been the best ROI blah blah blah. It's come down to this: get a PSA 10 or you've wasted money.

I'm at a minor advantage in the sense that with my remaining cards, what I purchased at versus current value, I'm up, way up. Definitely above the S&P500 lol

So I'll take a handful of more modern cards and send them to PSA because they have a legit shot at a 10. The rest will go to BGS. Again, thanks for this thread.

[clocsta2323]

Haven't graded with PSA in two years.

[Blazed]

When did 9's become a bad thing?

[thenightman]

How is this thread any different than the “ Has your PSA 10 Gem rate for modern bulk submissions changed dramatically this year?” thread?

Insert Spider-Man meme.

[FT35]

Originally Posted by Blazed

When did 9's become a bad thing?

When 40+% of them are clear cut “perfect card” 10’s with nothing putting them in 9 slabs but pure incompetence/10 pop control.

When the same cards in lesser condition come back 10’s for mega submitters like 4SC.

Also when large chunks of your order come back damaged cards in 9 slabs (that no one would buy/keep without sending back if sold).

Simply put, 9’s are bad if the 9 is not accurate. Kinda like someone offering to give you $30 for your $100 dollar bill…this is when $30 became “a bad thing.”

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by FT35

When 40+% of them are clear cut “perfect card” 10’s with nothing putting them in 9 slabs but pure incompetence/10 pop control.

When the same cards in lesser condition come back 10’s for mega submitters like 4SC.

Also when large chunks of your order come back damaged cards in 9 slabs (that no one would buy/keep without sending back if sold).

Simply put, 9’s are bad if the 9 is not accurate. Kinda like someone offering to give you $30 for your $100 dollar bill…this is when $30 became “a bad thing.”

The “10s” that 4SC gets are often laughable. I keep a little folder with some of their worst PSA 10s and it’s silly how often they get what looks like it should be a 9 or 8, at best.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by Oriole Way

It's pretty wild to see PSA fumbling the ball so hard in real time. Such a greedy, out of touch, corrupt company that doesn't give a flying crap about its customers. And I say that as someone who still shamelessly submits, buys, and sells PSA slabs. But I'm rooting for their downfall - at least until they respond to their customers and make many needed changes.

I'm a big fan of CGC and am glad to see them clearly and rapidly gaining market share. Hope to see it continue. There's no reason they can't quickly surpass what SGC was prior to Collector's buying out SGC. It's inevitable at this point, and PSA has made it much easier than it should have been.

If PSA is fumbling the ball, CGC is gaining 1/2 yard per rush while BGS is racking up false start after false start. No one else is picking up the ball PSA "fumbled" and running with it.

[Oriole Way]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

If PSA is fumbling the ball, CGC is gaining 1/2 yard per rush while BGS is racking up false start after false start. No one else is picking up the ball PSA "fumbled" and running with it.

I disagree. I've never said CGC would ever overtake PSA, since that'll never happen. Just that CGC will become the overwhelming and clear #2, similar to what SGC was becoming before SGC was purchased by Collectors Universe. And thanks to PSA's many issues with poor customer service, grading inconsistencies, and slow turnaround times (among many other issues), CGC is indeed becoming the clear #2 grader.

According to GemRate data from the third week of October, CGC was the only grading company with a week-over-week submissions increase in both sports and TCG. PSA, SGC, and BGS were all down. So CGC is gaining market share much faster than you're suggesting.