Observations on the current state of the hobby from a show this weekend

[Twalk1975]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

If you guys need any financial advice I'm here to help.

Just go ahead and put it out there. The name of this thread should have been Observations on the Card Market Plus Unsolicited Financial Advice.

[Twalk1975]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

A teen working a part time job and investing in crypto can easily make $50k+ a year. All this with zero expenses. Smart kids creating a foundation for themselves.

Did you try making a Tik Tok about this?

[JoshMN]

I get all my tax and financial advice from BO. So I don't pay taxes anymore, but I'm totally broke.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by solt0131

If I were you, I wouldn't be sitting by your rotary phone waiting for a call.

You should probably be the first one to call me.

[Above the Rim]

Local show, was expecting maybe 50/50 Sports/Pokemon, was like 80 plus % Pokemon.

Absolutely amazing this Pokemon craze! My kid literally cannot find anywhere with Pokemon in stock with original retail prices. Apparently, everyplace gets immediately cleared out, most likely by scalpers. There are now Pokemon vending machines we have looked at in the major stores - ALL SOLD OUT.

My little box I brought to the show for trades with assorted Curry, Derrick Henry, Jokic, Skubal, Crochet, Skenes, few others, didn't even come out of my backpack - ugh !

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by Above the Rim

Local show, was expecting maybe 50/50 Sports/Pokemon, was like 80 plus % Pokemon.

Absolutely amazing this Pokemon craze! My kid literally cannot find anywhere with Pokemon in stock with original retail prices. Apparently, everyplace gets immediately cleared out, most likely by scalpers. There are now Pokemon vending machines we have looked at in the major stores - ALL SOLD OUT.

My little box I brought to the show for trades with assorted Curry, Derrick Henry, Jokic, Skubal, Crochet, Skenes, few others, didn't even come out of my backpack - ugh !

I've been saying it for years, very few people actually want sports cards, they want to make money off sports cards. That has become harder to do so now they moved on to Pokemon.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

I've been saying it for years, very few people actually want sports cards, they want to make money off sports cards. That has become harder to do so now they moved on to Pokemon.

That’s part of the hobby. It’s always been like that. The hobby is just massive now and you see it more with the internet. People were buying Todd Van Popel cards 30 some years ago wanting to make money. 25 years ago people were buying Troy Glaus cards wanting to make money. And on and on. Your revelation must have just been news to you, because nothing has changed. People come and go, hype comes and goes. Nothing has really changed. Pokémon is only an additional part of the equation now.

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by premium1981

That’s part of the hobby. It’s always been like that. The hobby is just massive now and you see it more with the internet. People were buying Todd Van Popel cards 30 some years ago wanting to make money. 25 years ago people were buying Troy Glaus cards wanting to make money. And on and on. Your revelation must have just been news to you, because nothing has changed. People come and go, hype comes and goes. Nothing has really changed. Pokémon is only an additional part of the equation now.

Sounds good.

[hammerva]

For anyone who has gone to the Fishtown shows in Philly, is the dealers basically the same one as the main Philly show or mostly different ones. I wouldn't mind going to the show this weekend but it is only 150 some tables and that goes against my rules of driving more than 2 hours for a show.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by premium1981

That’s part of the hobby. It’s always been like that. The hobby is just massive now and you see it more with the internet. People were buying Todd Van Popel cards 30 some years ago wanting to make money. 25 years ago people were buying Troy Glaus cards wanting to make money. And on and on. Your revelation must have just been news to you, because nothing has changed. People come and go, hype comes and goes. Nothing has really changed. Pokémon is only an additional part of the equation now.

There used to be more of a balance between collectors and investors/flippers. The junk wax era temporarily had an influx of people thinking mass-produced cards were a good long-term investment.

I remember as a kid buying Troy Glaus' rookie card at my LCS in the late 90s. The late-90s-to-early-2000s was a good example of an era in which the hobby was more balanced -- MLB, NFL and NBA cards were being collected at a healthy rate. There was the chase and gambling element involved, but there were also young star athletes like Tim Duncan, Randy Moss and Albert Pujols that kids wanted to collect.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

There used to be more of a balance between collectors and investors/flippers.

This.

Probably used to be 60% collectors/40% investors.....now it's probably 30% collectors/70% investors.

[ThoseBackPages]

if you want a "collector" heavy % show then go to the national.
its the best and is always "collector' heavy

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Probably used to be 60% collectors/40% investors.....now it's probably 30% collectors/70% investors.

I see more collectors than flippers at shows I attend. It seems my local shops are similar. This isn't to say these people are not hoping their collections don't increase in value; it's just that their primary intent is fun first. While there's no shortage of Zion kids, they were around in the 90s too, minus the case. The investor types are effective at polluting the internet but they are still a minority in the bigger picture.

Originally Posted by hammerva

that goes against my rules of driving more than 2 hours for a show.

Glad I don't have this limit or I wouldn't get to many shows sitting in the middle of North Dakota. It's fun seeing different dealers and bargain bin stuff. My wife gave me mild grief or sarcasm suggesting I don't need to build the next road trip around a big card show, then I informed her that's how the last vacation got paid for.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

There used to be more of a balance between collectors and investors/flippers. The junk wax era temporarily had an influx of people thinking mass-produced cards were a good long-term investment.

I remember as a kid buying Troy Glaus' rookie card at my LCS in the late 90s. The late-90s-to-early-2000s was a good example of an era in which the hobby was more balanced -- MLB, NFL and NBA cards were being collected at a healthy rate. There was the chase and gambling element involved, but there were also young star athletes like Tim Duncan, Randy Moss and Albert Pujols that kids wanted to collect.

Agree to disagree. People were not buying Troy Glaus cards because they loved the Angels. It was because of hype and the potential value behind the cards. The internet just makes things easier and more noticeable now. By definition, you would probably call me a flipper. But I spend more on my collection now than ever before. I'm just private with it. And my PC is larger than ever before. Like a lot of people, I choose to let the hobby pay for the hobby so I do both. The collector hasn't gone anywhere. The hobby is just insanely huge now, and the internet puts the dollar signs out there for marketing and influence. And a few of you like to concentrate on only that, so that skews reality. If you chose to concrete on how many people are still collecting you would see just how many there are. We see what we want to see, and you like to concentrate on the things you don't like because of your negative personality on outlook on things.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

The investor types are effective at polluting the internet but they are still a minority in the bigger picture.

Missed this before I made my post. You are 100% spot on.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Agree to disagree. People were not buying Troy Glaus cards because they loved the Angels. It was because of hype and the potential value behind the cards. The internet just makes things easier and more noticeable now. By definition, you would probably call me a flipper. But I spend more on my collection now than ever before. I'm just private with it. And my PC is larger than ever before. Like a lot of people, I choose to let the hobby pay for the hobby so I do both. The collector hasn't gone anywhere. The hobby is just insanely huge now, and the internet puts the dollar signs out there for marketing and influence. And a few of you like to concentrate on only that, so that skews reality. If you chose to concrete on how many people are still collecting you would see just how many there are. We see what we want to see, and you like to concentrate on the things you don't like because of your negative personality on outlook on things.

People were buying Glaus cards in the late 90s primarily because he was newest top prospect slugger. According to his minor league stats, he hit a combined 35 home runs and had a .307 batting average between AA and AAA in his only season in the minor leagues in 1998. This wasn't an example of a completely unproven Dominican 16-year-old prospect's expensive cards being speculated on and resold by gamblers and flippers. This was a legitimately burgeoning star who justified their hype.

My claim was that there was more of a balance between collectors -- the end-consumer -- and resellers/gamblers back in the late 90s. Now the hobby is being dominated by the latter. I don't see how I'm wrong in that assertion.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

People were buying Glaus cards in the late 90s primarily because he was newest top prospect slugger. According to his minor league stats, he hit a combined 35 home runs and had a .307 batting average between AA and AAA in his only season in the minor leagues in 1998. This wasn't an example of a completely unproven Dominican 16-year-old prospect's expensive cards being speculated on and resold by gamblers and flippers. This was a legitimately burgeoning star who justified their hype.

My claim was that there was more of a balance between collectors -- the end-consumer -- and resellers/gamblers back in the late 90s. Now the hobby is being dominated by the latter. I don't see how I'm wrong in that assertion.

A) Glaus hype that I used as an example was just to show that people have always bought hype. It isn't a new thing.

B) 16 Year old Dominican's were not included in products 25 years ago. And if someone was (I don't feel like looking) it was rare. Additionally, smart phones were not a thing and a lot of people didn't have internet access in their homes. I believe less than 50% of households had internet at home in the 1998 example given above. So people can't drool over a prospect that no one knows exists. Its like claiming no one wanted a Tesla back then. Well, of course they didn't, because it wasn't a thing.

C) Your claim about the balance difference is simply because the world is viewed differently now. I was deep in the hobby then as well, back when people made want lists and Beckett to price things (or Tuff Stuff). It has always been about value and money. I collected Braves, I could always get what I wanted by offering cool cards that had value, even if the other side didn't collect them. Its because those cards were going to be "flipped" for money or other cards that they did want. Just like now. Its just easier now to remove the unwanted trade aspect and just purchase because you can find pretty much anything within seconds and things like trading base cards through the mail don't exist because postage made it not worth while a long time ago. And remember, Paypal wasn't a thing either.

This is why you view the balance as different. Its also why people had boxes of 1987 Topps Mark McGwire cards in the late 80's and early 90's. Or the Bo Jackson 1990 Score card. They viewed it as an investment that they would be able to retire on.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by premium1981

A) Glaus hype that I used as an example was just to show that people have always bought hype. It isn't a new thing.

B) 16 Year old Dominican's were not included in products 25 years ago. And if someone was (I don't feel like looking) it was rare. Additionally, smart phones were not a thing and a lot of people didn't have internet access in their homes. I believe less than 50% of households had internet at home in the 1998 example given above. So people can't drool over a prospect that no one knows exists. Its like claiming no one wanted a Tesla back then. Well, of course they didn't, because it wasn't a thing.

C) Your claim about the balance difference is simply because the world is viewed differently now. I was deep in the hobby then as well, back when people made want lists and Beckett to price things (or Tuff Stuff). It has always been about value and money. I collected Braves, I could always get what I wanted by offering cool cards that had value, even if the other side didn't collect them. Its because those cards were going to be "flipped" for money or other cards that they did want. Just like now. Its just easier now to remove the unwanted trade aspect and just purchase because you can find pretty much anything within seconds and things like trading base cards through the mail don't exist because postage made it not worth while a long time ago. And remember, Paypal wasn't a thing either.

This is why you view the balance as different. Its also why people had boxes of 1987 Topps Mark McGwire cards in the late 80's and early 90's. Or the Bo Jackson 1990 Score card. They viewed it as an investment that they would be able to retire on.

There weren't MLB-licensed cards of 16-year-olds back then, but there were ones of 18-years-olds -- Derek Jeter in 1993 and Andruw Jones in 1995, come to mind. The main difference between then and now is unproven teenagers and young prospects didn't get treated like future inner-circle Hall of Famers by the market. It was only after they broke out that their card prices shot up in price. Nowadays, entire products like Bowman Draft hinge on the cards of unproven prospects like Druw Jones being worth thousands of dollars.

FWI -- dial-up internet was already a big deal and commonplace in the late 90s. AOL would send you the installation discs in the mail -- you just needed a PC and a phone line. You could go on the internet and search for many things -- mainly porn, of course. They were very common in schools as well -- there was an initiative in the mid-90s by Bill Clinton and the federal government to fund it.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

There used to be more of a balance between collectors and investors/flippers. The junk wax era temporarily had an influx of people thinking mass-produced cards were a good long-term investment.

Back in the Griffey '89 Upper Deck craze the Seattle PI (newspaper) wrote an article about the baseball card market and interviewed Andy the owner of Stagg's (Coin and Card Shop, Kent WA). Stagg's was probably one of the biggest shops in the area at the time. Andy was quoted in the paper saying something along the lines of, "an Upper Deck Griffey rookie is like money in the bank".

I guess he wasn't wrong, at the time Griffey booked at $60.00 in Beckett and here we are 35 years later and you still get around $50-$60 for a raw Griffey.



INVEST!!!

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Back in the Griffey '89 Upper Deck craze the Seattle PI (newspaper) wrote an article about the baseball card market and interviewed Andy the owner of Stagg's (Coin and Card Shop, Kent WA). Stagg's was probably one of the biggest shops in the area at the time. Andy was quoted in the paper saying something along the lines of, "an Upper Deck Griffey rookie is like money in the bank".

I guess he wasn't wrong, at the time Griffey booked at $60.00 in Beckett and here we are 35 years later and you still get around $50-$60 for a raw Griffey.



INVEST!!!

Lol....sarcasm? How does $60 in 1990 dollars compare to $60 today?

[patchgenie]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Back in the Griffey '89 Upper Deck craze the Seattle PI (newspaper) wrote an article about the baseball card market and interviewed Andy the owner of Stagg's (Coin and Card Shop, Kent WA). Stagg's was probably one of the biggest shops in the area at the time. Andy was quoted in the paper saying something along the lines of, "an Upper Deck Griffey rookie is like money in the bank".

I guess he wasn't wrong, at the time Griffey booked at $60.00 in Beckett and here we are 35 years later and you still get around $50-$60 for a raw Griffey.



INVEST!!!

can't go wrong with Griffey

[DR Murph]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

if you want a "collector" heavy % show then go to the national.
its the best and is always "collector' heavy

Yup—this is true. Great conversations and typically the vast majority of attendees have a blast. Most of the negative comments about the show are really weird, given that the person (people) weren’t there.

[corockies]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

FWI -- dial-up internet was already a big deal and commonplace in the late 90s. AOL would send you the installation discs in the mail -- you just needed a PC and a phone line.

I miss the days of the AOL message boards. That was where you got a lot of your collecting done in the late 90's.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by Big35Hurt

Lol....sarcasm? How does $60 in 1990 dollars compare to $60 today?

Yes, sarcasm, Andy was wrong.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

FWI -- dial-up internet was already a big deal and commonplace in the late 90s. AOL would send you the installation discs in the mail -- you just needed a PC and a phone line. You could go on the internet and search for many things -- mainly porn, of course. They were very common in schools as well -- there was an initiative in the mid-90s by Bill Clinton and the federal government to fund it.

I'm aware it was a thing. I was there. But it was exactly as I said. Less than 50% of homes had internet in 1998. The first article I found with these statistics said the number did not cross over the 50% mark until 2001. Just because you were able to stream on Whatnot in 1998 on your AOL disk, doesn't mean everyone else was. Per usual, you think in terms of what you personally see and like, not what actual reality is/was.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-subscription/

The initiative by Sir William Clinton was because, as I have already stated, the internet was not available wide spread. Thats why he did it. He didn't snap his fingers and magically put the internet in everyones homes. That takes time.