Patrick Mahomes Prices

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Also much of the turf back then didn’t allow for quicker cuts than the turf layed down today. Players can play much faster in today’s game.

[KardsC1]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

That was a grittier NFL. Today the rules favor passing and the recievers across the board are faster and stronger and just overall better athletes.

And in 2002 those 28 touchdowns led the NFL.

Just admit you weren’t watching the NFL then.

Excuses…how did Brady then throw 50 TDs in 07?…all of the sudden, the nfl changed for one year? Save your excuses…Brady was asked not to crash the Toyota , that’s it… Ted Bruschi said so. He was a team mate buddy

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

This was in 2006. That turf and those kinds of muddy games in the NFL are a relic of the past.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2R7Xk6...RyaW90cyAyMDA2

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

Excuses…how did Brady then throw 50 TDs in 07?…all of the sudden, the nfl changed for one year? Save your excuses…Brady was asked not to crash the Toyota , that’s it… Ted Bruschi said so. He was a team mate buddy

Brady ushered in a new era of offense. A lot of what he did was spread everybody out and play from the shotgun. Before the NFL was more balanced between the run and pass. The pats threw and threw a lot. A big deal was made about the pats operating out of the shotgun and constantly throwing the ball. From that point forward you can see the passing offenses tick up.

And I’m not even mentioning Brady continually working and improving his game every year. That’s one of the hallmarks of greatness.

You remind me of those dudes crapping on Brady on the espn message boards back in the 2000s. Suckers and fools, all of them.

[Delta5]

Mahomes card prices keep on tumbling, noone is excited for his card. Yikes

[blackandgold]

Really surprised on Pattys card prices after 1-2 start The Optic rookie is still holding strong at 1k

[wharfrat7624]

Incoming…love this patch.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Delta5]

Originally Posted by blackandgold

Really surprised on Pattys card prices after 1-2 start The Optic rookie is still holding strong at 1k

People starts to wonder is this his peak or can he get another ring. While for other qb just one ring and you're golden

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Passing yards per game league wide are the lowest they've been in 20 years, and simpleton's still think the game is being played like it 2015.

I think that speaks to the dearth in QB talent overall and the prospects coming from non-pro style offenses in college.

I certainly don't think the ruleset has changed to adversely effect scoring points and passing the ball. If anything, perhaps it's as simple as the touchback being the 20 yard line and then it went to the 25 and now it's somehow the 35.

Almost like playing Madden at that point, when you don't have the entire field it's harder to rack up yards. I think that is a variable. And QB talent is borderline horrible now league wide compare to 5-20 years ago.

We're also 3 weeks into the season. Where teams are playing in Rio and Dublin so we don't have a proper sample size. But the past four seasons have averaged around 218 passing yards per game league wide. I don't expect yards to stay at ~207 per game to finish this year.

Again, the talent is way worse. I think Mahomes would be the only QB considered elite if we took a time machine to 2015. Allen and Lamar, maybe. Depending. But we're currently in a league where multiple of your top 5-10 QBs can barely throw the ball accurately (Hurts, Daniels) or make more than one read. Who would you even consider top 10 at this point? I think that list shows you the difference in talent.

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

Mahomes was the engine and spark to the chiefs from the get go. They gave mahomes the keys to the franchise. Meanwhile, they told Brady, just don’t mess it up…the defense was largely the reason Brady won his first 3 SBs..no one will convince me otherwise … his own team mate said so (Ted Bruschi)…
Yes, Brady later became more better but let’s not act like he was a rocket ship from the beginning

Yes he was. He was also a 10th overall pick in the 1st round that was traded up for + sat out for a full year minus a start against DEN I recall watching live.

Entirely different era as well. When Brady played in 2001-2005 ish it was still like 90s football where QBs would get battered and WRs were mauled, etc. They've changed the rules over time.

To say the defense carried in the first 3 SBs for the Patriots is misleading. Defense mattered more in general during that timeframe. Brady was all-pro and 3rd in MVP voting in 2003, the 2nd SB season. So, no...that's simply not true.

Mahomes' was better faster. Yes. Also played in a very pass friendly league in comparison to 2000-2006. Had Andy Reid, one of the best offensive minds. Both sat our a year essentially, so they even out there. Really pointless to argue, why would a late 6th rounder be expected to take over a franchise v.s. a 10th overall 1st round pick? Obviously you're not expecting that. And Mahomes didn't exist or play in that era, not his fault, but he didn't. Otherwise he possibly, probably, doesn't achieve the heights that fast. He's already a HOFer.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Yeah Brady played in the nfl when it was still a gladiator league. Would love to see Mahomes play in that same era.

Look no flags!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTmz_...kgYmlsbHMgaGl0

[KardsC1]

Yes the league rules are “softer” now to protect the players … nfl is not a sport to test toughness , rather it is to test skill. You want toughness, go watch ufc.

I prefer to watch games with marquee names vs having them out of the games due to injuries. Saying Joe Montana is better than Brady because he took hits is not cool…as if being able to absorb hits is a badge of superiority. Silly if you ask me

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

Yes the league rules are “softer” now to protect the players … nfl is not a sport to test toughness , rather it is to test skill. You want toughness, go watch ufc.

I prefer to watch games with marquee names vs having them out of the games due to injuries. Saying Joe Montana is better than Brady because he took hits is not cool…as if being able to absorb hits is a badge of superiority. Silly if you ask me

Skill in the midst of grit and toughness is sublime.

You want football without toughness maybe flag football is for you? No?

[KardsC1]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

Skill in the midst of grit and toughness is sublime.

You want football without toughness maybe flag football is for you? No?

Last time I checked, they still tackle. I’m sorry but I rather watch mahomes vs Lamar over Jake browning vs Carson wentz

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

Last time I checked, they still tackle. I’m sorry but I rather watch mahomes vs Lamar over Jake browning vs Carson wentz

Cool but remember Brady and Montana played gladiator ball. Mahomes did not.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Tea10

I think that speaks to the dearth in QB talent overall and the prospects coming from non-pro style offenses in college.

I certainly don't think the ruleset has changed to adversely effect scoring points and passing the ball. If anything, perhaps it's as simple as the touchback being the 20 yard line and then it went to the 25 and now it's somehow the 35.

Almost like playing Madden at that point, when you don't have the entire field it's harder to rack up yards. I think that is a variable. And QB talent is borderline horrible now league wide compare to 5-20 years ago.

We're also 3 weeks into the season. Where teams are playing in Rio and Dublin so we don't have a proper sample size. But the past four seasons have averaged around 218 passing yards per game league wide. I don't expect yards to stay at ~207 per game to finish this year.

Again, the talent is way worse. I think Mahomes would be the only QB considered elite if we took a time machine to 2015. Allen and Lamar, maybe. Depending. But we're currently in a league where multiple of your top 5-10 QBs can barely throw the ball accurately (Hurts, Daniels) or make more than one read. Who would you even consider top 10 at this point? I think that list shows you the difference in talent.

Totally disagree here:

Your league leader in passing yards per game this year is Herbert, who played his first game in Brazil.

He's at 286 yards per game, which would have ranked him 7th in 2015. If anything, a 3 game sample size should produce more extreme outliers than a 16 or 17 game season should. I'm willing to bet that nobody averages 286 yards per game over 15+ games this season.

As for small sample size, that's incorrect too. Here are league wide passing yards per game since 2015:

2025: 207
2024: 217
2023: 218
2022: 218
2021: 228
2020: 240
2019: 235
2018: 237
2017: 224
2016: 241
2015: 243

This is significant drop. The reasons for this:

Trend shift to more two high safety looks league wide to eliminate big plays. To counter this, offenses are making more short, safe throws (interceptions are also significantly down).

Vs 2015:
Passing attempts per game are 10% lower
Drives per game are 11% lower,
Which means time of possession per drive is significantly up

The game is constantly evolving, it always is. The current trend for the last 6-10 years has been a less dynamic, more methodical approach to offense.

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Totally disagree here:

Your league leader in passing yards per game this year is Herbert, who played his first game in Brazil.

He's at 286 yards per game, which would have ranked him 7th in 2015. If anything, a 3 game sample size should produce more extreme outliers than a 16 or 17 game season should. I'm willing to bet that nobody averages 286 yards per game over 15+ games this season.

As for small sample size, that's incorrect too. Here are league wide passing yards per game since 2015:

2025: 207
2024: 217
2023: 218
2022: 218
2021: 228
2020: 240
2019: 235
2018: 237
2017: 224
2016: 241
2015: 243

This is significant drop. The reasons for this:

Trend shift to more two high safety looks league wide to eliminate big plays. To counter this, offenses are making more short, safe throws (interceptions are also significantly down).

Vs 2015:
Passing attempts per game are 10% lower
Drives per game are 11% lower,
Which means time of possession per drive is significantly up

The game is constantly evolving, it always is. The current trend for the last 6-10 years has been a less dynamic, more methodical approach to offense.

I said 2025 is a small sample size. We've played 3 weeks. I don't think we just suddenly nose dived to ~205-209 passing yards per game from the consistent ~218-220 mark the prior 5 years straight.

Yes, you're right. There is a down trend. As for the reason, I think there are clearly multiple variables. Offenses are changing? Sure. That might be one. Logically starting the ball at the ~30 yard line consistently instead of the 20-25 should be another. 35 yard line if it's a touchback.

We could probably look up starting field position from kickoffs. That's obviously going to significantly change total passing yards when every team, every game, has 5-10 less yards of field to go.

Continuing on that, tons of teams now go for it on 4th down far more. Less stretched fields from a punt to traverse aka less passing yards. Two high safety looks? We've seen that for a long, long time. I still stand by, the QB play has fallen off a cliff. I see that as undeniable.

Even within your top 10, some of the QBs are talented overall but specifically as passers they kind of suck or aren't great - Hurts, Daniels, Lamar, toss in Purdy. JJ McCarthy is a 1st rounder who looked to fit that mold, obviously not top 10. That's kind of what we're seeing, so in terms of changing schemes and strategies...yes because the QBs are better at running and less good at passing.

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Totally disagree here:

Your league leader in passing yards per game this year is Herbert, who played his first game in Brazil.

He's at 286 yards per game, which would have ranked him 7th in 2015. If anything, a 3 game sample size should produce more extreme outliers than a 16 or 17 game season should. I'm willing to bet that nobody averages 286 yards per game over 15+ games this season.

As for small sample size, that's incorrect too. Here are league wide passing yards per game since 2015:

2025: 207
2024: 217
2023: 218
2022: 218
2021: 228
2020: 240
2019: 235
2018: 237
2017: 224
2016: 241
2015: 243

This is significant drop. The reasons for this:

Trend shift to more two high safety looks league wide to eliminate big plays. To counter this, offenses are making more short, safe throws (interceptions are also significantly down).

Vs 2015:
Passing attempts per game are 10% lower
Drives per game are 11% lower,
Which means time of possession per drive is significantly up

The game is constantly evolving, it always is. The current trend for the last 6-10 years has been a less dynamic, more methodical approach to offense.

And I don't care to argue, to argue. I think this is an interesting conversation and I see your points. I'd also add that the beginning weeks of a season typically offenses struggle and are rusty, and score less. Generally.

I think we could say we're both right in terms of the variables. Again, two of your top teams and SB contenders in the league feature offenses that are predicated on the run - Eagles and Ravens.

Even the Bills run a lot. Allen is a runner. He can get you 1st downs and chunk plays and put it into the endzone for you via running. Hurts - obviously. Lamar - the best ever at QB to do this. So the literal top 3 favorites to win the SB have running QBs.

Mahomes has the ability to run. Guess what? I looked this up with a friend in fantasy. He leads the Chiefs in rushing yards. The variables and factors matter, the Chiefs run game sucks and the weapons kind suck now. The latter is the point I'm making for this situation. But overall, yeah I mean Herbert runs it, even Burrow can run a bit but might be you're purest passer next to Mahomes and he's hurt again.

[TheCrow]

Originally Posted by wharfrat7624

Incoming…love this patch.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Congrats, that's a beauty! The colored patches are a huge upgrade from the plain white patches on the /99's, although I wouldn't mind owning one of those either LOL

[TheCrow]

The Chargers just lost to the Giants ha ha niceeeeee

[Delta5]

Originally Posted by TheCrow

The Chargers just lost to the Giants ha ha niceeeeee

And chiefs boutta be 1-3 anyways

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by Delta5

And chiefs boutta be 1-3 anyways

Nah Lamar just throw an awful pass to Chenal. I need the Chiefs to win, rooting for em. I believe.

[Delta5]

Originally Posted by Tea10

Nah Lamar just throw an awful pass to Chenal. I need the Chiefs to win, rooting for em. I believe.

we'll see, even with that giveaway they'll still probably win

[TheCrow]

BOOM!!!

[Onepocketj]

PATTY!!!