Patrick Mahomes Prices

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

We survived Joe Montana, Peyton manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers for GOAT supremacy. I’m sure we’ll survive the likes of Kerm and Baker narratives.

Maybe, but Mahomes can’t ever shake the label of being soft and a flopper. He’s become the Lebron of the NFL. Can’t wait until he fakes a slide and he gets rocked by an LB or Safety. I mean of these guys are going to get penalized, might as well get your money’s worth.


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[Delta5]

Just watched FTF..
longest active drought for last game with 30+ PTS and 400+ Yards
1. Titans (2021 week 2)
2. Patriots (2021 week 17)
3. Raiders (2022 week 17)
4. Chiefs (2023 Week 7)

701 days and counting. And yet people here trying to convince each other he's the best QB in the league lol. Best qb to not score 30 maybe

[Delta5]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Maybe, but Mahomes can’t ever shake the label of being soft and a flopper. He’s become the Lebron of the NFL. Can’t wait until he fakes a slide and he gets rocked by an LB or Safety. I mean of these guys are going to get penalized, might as well get your money’s worth.


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He's a rb now, that's all he has. Cant throw accurately beside slants, cant throw deep shot, cant throw a freakin pass to wide open kelce. Only sad regression with putrid offense

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Maybe, but Mahomes can’t ever shake the label of being soft and a flopper. He’s become the Lebron of the NFL. Can’t wait until he fakes a slide and he gets rocked by an LB or Safety. I mean of these guys are going to get penalized, might as well get your money’s worth.


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IDK this seems to be a friendlier NFL than what it used to be.

Guys like Rodney Harrison get railroaded out of the league now.

[chompie99]

Originally Posted by Jbead61

Oh, my apologies for not proof reading my previous post. I guess because of that and my other silly posts, I should be discredited and ignored. Your commentary clearly must not be equally ignored of course. Your entire post had zero relevance also, but it must have struck a nerve in you that compelled you to type your message about me of course. I guess Mahomes should be in the GOAT conversation, right?

No, I truly wasn’t talking about you specifically. I apologize if it came across that way. I was speaking about the two resident trolls on here. And of course Brady is the goat. Mahomes has a ways to go.

[TheCrow]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

If you're watching Chiefs games without the "Mahomes tinted glasses" on this is 100% spot-on. All this dancing around is entertaining to watch, and he's shown the ability to overcome nagging injuries and still perform at an all-time great level (high ankle sprain vs. Jags in 2023), but it's unsustainable to believe he'll just keep rolling. I'd also be concerned that he's getting these "bad habits" ingrained into his instinctual play. He's so antsy in the pocket (for good reason sometimes) and speeds through his reads and takes off. He has a few more years to do this before he's getting absolutely crushed. He should be transitioning into a pocket passer at this point of his career.

To add to that, it seems to be killing his accuracy on anything other than open zone throws. The TD pass to the back of the endzone to Thorton was promising - that looked like 2018-2022 Mahomes. But those are too far and between for a guy in the middle of his prime, IMO.

Yeah, there is way too much potential for injury with the type of plays he's been doing. He already has a history of lower body injuries (ankle sprain, turf toe, dislocated knee cap). He overcame those pretty quickly, but he's not getting any younger either...

[Zauron]

Originally Posted by TSonn

Ding ding ding. Burrow and Allen fans come in here to try and knock down the obvious best QB in the league right now because their guy continuously comes up short. Brady fans come in here because they see the Mahomes resume building and they don't want it to creep up to the Brady legacy.

Oh and also Purdy fans... or was it just one fan with multiple accounts?

Mahomes is not obviously the best QB in the league anymore. That is not necessarily a knock on Mahomes, but his play hasn't really warranted that top QB designation for the past couple years now, especially how he looks this year.

His yards per game have dipped from 2022 through this year, his touchdowns have dipped, interceptions sort of creeped up, yards per attempt dipped, rating dipped.

Which has me surprised because in 2022 he put up MVP numbers without a true #1 reciever outside of Kelce. So what happened?

I want to really specify here I am not trying to dog on Mahomes, and I still think he's a top tier QB, but to say he's the best QB in the league right now, I don't think you can really say that.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by Zauron

Mahomes is not obviously the best QB in the league anymore. That is not necessarily a knock on Mahomes, but his play hasn't really warranted that top QB designation for the past couple years now, especially how he looks this year.

His yards per game have dipped from 2022 through this year, his touchdowns have dipped, interceptions sort of creeped up, yards per attempt dipped, rating dipped.

Which has me surprised because in 2022 he put up MVP numbers without a true #1 reciever outside of Kelce. So what happened?

I want to really specify here I am not trying to dog on Mahomes, and I still think he's a top tier QB, but to say he's the best QB in the league right now, I don't think you can really say that.

I agree Mahomes is not QB1 in the NFL right now, but honestly at this point, he's chasing Montana and Brady, not really competing with any current QB in terms of legacy.

Now if Allen/Jackson/Burrow get a couple SB titles, that can change the narrative, especially if they beat Patty in the playoffs on the way to the chip.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

I agree Mahomes is not QB1 in the NFL right now, but honestly at this point, he's chasing Montana and Brady, not really competing with any current QB in terms of legacy.

Now if Allen/Jackson/Burrow get a couple SB titles, that can change the narrative, especially if they beat Patty in the playoffs on the way to the chip.

Interesting....Those 3 guys have all lost to Mahomes in the playoffs the last time they've played him (Allen 4 times).

And also, why is Joe Burrow even in this conversation? Can we drop him already? This will be the 3rd straight year the guy hasn't made the playoffs, he has 0 MVPs, 0 All Pro selections, and just 2 Pro Bowls.


So if we we want to drop Mahomes from the title of "League's best QB" based on a 1-2 start and a year he played poorly in the Super Bowl, after outplaying Josh Allen once again in the AFC Championship game, then here are our choices:

1. Josh Allen. 0-4 against Mahomes in the playoffs, most recently 4 games ago for him.

2. Lamar Jackson. A career 3-5 playoff record, has never won more than 1 playoff game in a season, also has a 1-2 record this year. Lost his only playoff game against Mahomes at him in the AFC Championship game.

3. Herbert? We calling for him now? A guy who's never won a playoff game and is 2-7 career vs Mahomes.

4. Baker? Nah, we're not going to him yet.

The only guy you can make any good case for not shrinking in the biggest moment or not totally falling off the face of the earth the last 3 years for is Jalen Hurts. There's not much you can say about Hurts not playing well when it matters, or not doing what's asked of him to win. The other side of that is he has the best running back in football, the best oline in football, some pretty good pass catchers, and a very good defense. But maybe you don't want to ding him for that and give him the benefit of the doubt that if his job was to throw for 300 yards, maybe he'd throw for 300 yards.

Otherwise, I'm not going to overreact a quarterback who's thrown 43% of his passing yards to guys who were cut by the Patriots last year (since his top 2 receivers are out), while being the team's leading rusher and putting his team in position to win 2 out of the 3 games this year.

And yes, there is a distinction between "League's best QB" and "QB who's had the best 3 games this year". Otherwise we'd be talking about Daniel Jones as the League's best QB, just like Tua would have been 2 years ago, and Russell Wilson a couple years before that.

[2010GBPackers]

Right now, Mahomes' immediate threat is L. Jack.

If they can pull off a Super Bowl run (not to mention possibly winning another MVP, he'd have a hell of a resume. Plus, the last two postseasons (while not playing spectacularly) were really determined by two glaring mistakes by Z. Flowers (fumble at the goal-line) and M. Andrews (drop on the 2pt conversion).

When Mahomes and Co. lose, they have historic meltdowns (vs. Tampa/Philly in the SB). Rarely do they lose when it's a play here or there that determines the game (Cin. in the AFCCG).

That's why, while it's important to consistently be leading a top team year-after-year, the whole playoff record thing is overblown to me as a "player stat."

I have Marino as a Top 5 QB, and his playoff record isn't that great.

[Fenway55]

Originally Posted by tjforce

So if we we want to drop Mahomes from the title of "League's best QB" based on a 1-2 start and a year he played poorly in the Super Bowl, after outplaying Josh Allen once again in the AFC Championship game, then here are our choices.

Both things can be true:

1) When looking at careers, Mahomes is the best active QB in the NFL and it isn’t even really all that close

2) When looking at 2025 (which is right now a very small sample size), Herbert, Allen and Lamar are all playing better than Mahomes.

[Tommy1380]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Interesting....Those 3 guys have all lost to Mahomes in the playoffs the last time they've played him (Allen 4 times).

And also, why is Joe Burrow even in this conversation? Can we drop him already? This will be the 3rd straight year the guy hasn't made the playoffs, he has 0 MVPs, 0 All Pro selections, and just 2 Pro Bowls.

Because Burrow has been about as good as anyone in the league when healthy. His OL and defense are absolute garbage. If he had just an average OL and defense you'd probably look at him differently.

He's played KC better than Allen and Lamar have. He beat KC at KC in the AFC Championship game, and he may have done the same thing the next year if not for his LB shoving Mahomes out of bounds. He was also a FG from winning a Super Bowl. That's more than Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson can say.

[majestik101]

Originally Posted by Tommy1380

Because Burrow has been about as good as anyone in the league when healthy. His OL and defense are absolute garbage. If he just had an average OL and defense you'd probably look at him differently.

He's played KC every bit as well as Allen has, and was a FG from winning a Super Bowl. That's more than Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson can say.

#TruthBomb

I like this guy.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

Both things can be true:

1) When looking at careers, Mahomes is the best active QB in the NFL and it isn’t even really all that close

2) When looking at 2025 (which is right now a very small sample size), Herbert, Allen and Lamar are all playing better than Mahomes.

And Daniel Jones and Jared Goff are playing better than Lamar.

Like I said, there's a difference between "They've had a better few games" and "They're a better Quarterback".

Heck Daniel Jones leads the NFL in QBR, Points Contributed, Expected points added. And he's 3-0 on a team that nobody thought was a loaded team coming in. So through 3 games, Daniel Jones has played the best. Step back and think about that for a minute.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Tommy1380

Because Burrow has been about as good as anyone in the league when healthy. His OL and defense are absolute garbage. If he had just an average OL and defense you'd probably look at him differently.

He's played KC better than Allen and Lamar have. He beat KC at KC in the AFC Championship game, and he may have done the same thing the next year if not for his LB shoving Mahomes out of bounds. He was also a FG from winning a Super Bowl. That's more than Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson can say.

But staying healthy is part of it.

I don't understand why so many can't see this, so let me explain it to you:

Burrow's biggest issue is that he is not a very mobile and elusive QB in the pocket, the way guys like Mahomes, Allen, and Hurts are (to name a few). That is HUGE in today's NFL.

Because of this he just can't stay healthy, so it doesn't matter what he 'could' do, because he can't get it down since he's always on the shelf (except for last year, when he still couldn't even get in the playoffs despite being healthy for 17 games).


And I'd also like to point out: If you're inferring the defense has been garbage the entire time he was there, then it's is an ignorant take. Burrow has been in 7 playoff games. The most his defense has ever given up is 24 points.

They've given up an average of 18.9 points per game.

Allen: 24 points per game average with 7 games over 24 pts
Mahomes: 23.9 points per game average with 9 games over 24 pts

Heck, even Tom Brady's defense gave up 20.9 points per game over his career. Yes.... Joe Burrow has had better defensive support in the playoffs than Tom Brady. So let's stop this "Joe Burrow Truther" nonsense.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Right now, Mahomes' immediate threat is L. Jack.

If they can pull off a Super Bowl run (not to mention possibly winning another MVP, he'd have a hell of a resume. Plus, the last two postseasons (while not playing spectacularly) were really determined by two glaring mistakes by Z. Flowers (fumble at the goal-line) and M. Andrews (drop on the 2pt conversion).

When Mahomes and Co. lose, they have historic meltdowns (vs. Tampa/Philly in the SB). Rarely do they lose when it's a play here or there that determines the game (Cin. in the AFCCG).

That's why, while it's important to consistently be leading a top team year-after-year, the whole playoff record thing is overblown to me as a "player stat."

I have Marino as a Top 5 QB, and his playoff record isn't that great.

Okay, so let's talk about Lamar's "Player Stats" in the playoffs.

I'll start here: In 8 games he's thrown 10 Touchdowns and 7 interceptions.

He's only run in 3 touchdowns, so that's not helping his cause much. He does rush for 80 yards per game, which is very good. He has a QB rating of 84.6, but that's sort of irrelevant for a guy who runs so much, so I won't harp on that. And something that you might look at as a team stat, but part of it certainly falls on the QB: He has 0 4th quarter comebacks and 0 Game winning drives.

So I don't think you can call him terrible in the playoffs, but he doesn't qualify as a playoff performer. No doubt his standard of play over the course of his career has diminished during the playoffs.

And as far as historic meltdowns go: He has as many double digit playoff loses (2) in 8 career playoff games as Mahomes has in 21 games.



So you're right that Lamar is one of the closest to tracking him down, but he still has to do it first.

[Ianhatcher]

This is silly to keep comparing Mahomes to these guys., He started the league driving an F1 car and all these other guys started driving a subaru.

In no universe did any QB have a head start like Mahomes did to start his career through no fault of his own but a 12-4 Division Champ team with 7 pro bowlers, 2 of which were two of the top offensive players in the league is a hell of a way to start your NFL career. No one comes close to that level of easy mode. I like Mahomes as a player but you put Burrow, Allen or any of these guys behind that and they likely rattle off a few SBs too.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by Tommy1380

Because Burrow has been about as good as anyone in the league when healthy. His OL and defense are absolute garbage. If he had just an average OL and defense you'd probably look at him differently.

He's played KC better than Allen and Lamar have. He beat KC at KC in the AFC Championship game, and he may have done the same thing the next year if not for his LB shoving Mahomes out of bounds. He was also a FG from winning a Super Bowl. That's more than Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson can say.

I could probably throw a deep ball to Chase and let him push off a CB for a tuddy, or throw a 5 yard out that gives 40+ in YAC.

Oh, yeah Higgins is on the other side. And Macaulay Culkin has very little to show for it.

[Tommy1380]

Originally Posted by tjforce

But staying healthy is part of it.

I don't understand why so many can't see this, so let me explain it to you:

Burrow's biggest issue is that he is not a very mobile and elusive QB in the pocket, the way guys like Mahomes, Allen, and Hurts are (to name a few). That is HUGE in today's NFL.

Because of this he just can't stay healthy, so it doesn't matter what he 'could' do, because he can't get it down since he's always on the shelf (except for last year, when he still couldn't even get in the playoffs despite being healthy for 17 games).


And I'd also like to point out: If you're inferring the defense has been garbage the entire time he was there, then it's is an ignorant take. Burrow has been in 7 playoff games. The most his defense has ever given up is 24 points.

They've given up an average of 18.9 points per game.

Allen: 24 points per game average with 7 games over 24 pts
Mahomes: 23.9 points per game average with 9 games over 24 pts

Heck, even Tom Brady's defense gave up 20.9 points per game over his career. Yes.... Joe Burrow has had better defensive support in the playoffs than Tom Brady. So let's stop this "Joe Burrow Truther" nonsense.

I absolutely agree with you regarding the defense. Burrow doesn't have that now, nor did he have it last year either. He had a ridiculous 2024 season and they didn't even make the playoffs. That's why they fired their defensive coordinator.

Since 2019 Mahomes has had an average to above average scoring defense in every single season. Top 5 in each of the last two seasons. Burrow has had an average to above average scoring defense in just two seasons. And in those two seasons he beat Mahomes in the AFC championship at Arrowhead, and the other was going to OT before the LB shoved Mahomes out of bounds and they kicked a FG with 3 seconds. (also AFC Championship at Arrowhead)

I'm not saying he's better than Mahomes. But he absolutely is in the next tier with Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, if not ahead of them. And their hardware likely looks very different if you swap their defenses.

[CorndogWasp]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Maybe, but Mahomes can’t ever shake the label of being soft and a flopper. He’s become the Lebron of the NFL. Can’t wait until he fakes a slide and he gets rocked by an LB or Safety. I mean of these guys are going to get penalized, might as well get your money’s worth.


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You don’t watch the games.

[CorndogWasp]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Right now, Mahomes' immediate threat is L. Jack.

If they can pull off a Super Bowl run (not to mention possibly winning another MVP, he'd have a hell of a resume. Plus, the last two postseasons (while not playing spectacularly) were really determined by two glaring mistakes by Z. Flowers (fumble at the goal-line) and M. Andrews (drop on the 2pt conversion).

When Mahomes and Co. lose, they have historic meltdowns (vs. Tampa/Philly in the SB). Rarely do they lose when it's a play here or there that determines the game (Cin. in the AFCCG).

That's why, while it's important to consistently be leading a top team year-after-year, the whole playoff record thing is overblown to me as a "player stat."

I have Marino as a Top 5 QB, and his playoff record isn't that great.

So you judge a QB about how good of a baller he is in non-stress environments such as games that aren’t the playoffs/SB? That’s last on the list of what makes a good QB. Being a good QB is being clutch and winning, stats and made-up awards by boomers are last on the list.

[Delta5]

I love how denial people here can be, especially tj defending for his life out here while objective people points out he's not the best anymore

[Zauron]

Originally Posted by tjforce

And Daniel Jones and Jared Goff are playing better than Lamar.

Like I said, there's a difference between "They've had a better few games" and "They're a better Quarterback".

Heck Daniel Jones leads the NFL in QBR, Points Contributed, Expected points added. And he's 3-0 on a team that nobody thought was a loaded team coming in. So through 3 games, Daniel Jones has played the best. Step back and think about that for a minute.

The past 3 years(including this season) he has not been the best QB. He has been on the best team, or one of the best.

Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen or the two main guys I would view as a better QB.

If you want to go with playoff stats being the main thing, I don't know if I really have anything to add on. Manning was considered the best QB before he even won a Super Bowl. Brady was never in the conversation really until his 2007 season.

Being right behind the likes of Lamar and Allen though with how they are playing is no knock on Mahomes at all by the way. Lamar had an insane season last year and already an insane season this year as well.

[KardsC1]

Originally Posted by Zauron

The past 3 years(including this season) he has not been the best QB. He has been on the best team, or one of the best.

Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen or the two main guys I would view as a better QB.

If you want to go with playoff stats being the main thing, I don't know if I really have anything to add on. Manning was considered the best QB before he even won a Super Bowl. Brady was never in the conversation really until his 2007 season.

Being right behind the likes of Lamar and Allen though with how they are playing is no knock on Mahomes at all by the way. Lamar had an insane season last year and already an insane season this year as well.

Bingo!!!!!!
Brady was not considered good even though he had 3 SBs before 2007…Manning was considered the better player (mainly because of regular season play)

Now we have a clash of ideas..those who say Brady is the best (though most of his seasons are not stellar…he just played good enough in the playoffs)…early in mahomes career, he was a rocket ship…he was Manning and Brady rolled up in one …lately he is more like Brady..so so season, but shows up clutch in the playoffs ..sorry guys, making it to the SB is still a praise …

Right now Josh and Lamar are like Manning while mahomes is playing like Brady….we never criticized Brady for his average stats..all we care for are his 7 rings…

We going to have to settle the debate : Rings or play …ex: Brady vs Marino

[Delta5]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

Bingo!!!!!!
Brady was not considered good even though he had 3 SBs before 2007…Manning was considered the better player (mainly because of regular season play)

Now we have a clash of ideas..those who say Brady is the best (though most of his seasons are not stellar…he just played good enough in the playoffs)…early in mahomes career, he was a rocket ship…he was Manning ans Brady rolled up in one …lately he is more like Brady..so so season, but shows up clutch in the playoffs ..sorry guys, making it to the SB is still a praise …

And I thought all of mahomes fans are delusional