If Judge and Trout retired after the 2025 season.....

[rats60]

Judge has a wRC+ of 177, Bonds 172. Bonds doped for most of his career and he was still worse than Judge.

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Aaron Judge 2016-2025 (ages 24 to 33): 177 wRC+

Barry Bonds 1999-2004 (known steroid years; ages 34 to 39): 211 wRC+


If you want to be dishonest and claim, without evidence, that Bonds started juicing right before his first MVP season in 1990:

Barry Bonds 1990-2004: 188 wRC+


If you want to compare Bonds and Judge during the same age range (ages 24 to 33):

Barry Bonds (1989 to 1998; the "clean" years): 168 wRC+; 61.22 WPA (1.06 average leverage index); 646.85 RE24; 85.1 fWAR

Aaron Judge (2016 to 2025): 177 wRC+; 34.43 WPA (0.95 average leverage index); 442.35 RE24; 60.1 fWAR



Mike Trout vs Aaron Judge:

WPA (Win Probability Added, which measures a player's offensive contribution to their team's chances of winning games) -- 162-game average:

Mike Trout: 5.21 (0.97 average leverage index)

Aaron Judge: 4.93 (0.95 average leverage index)

[kellmuff]

I think people have forgotten how great Trout was prior to injuries piling up the last few years tbh. It's not even close and I think Judge is the best hitter of this generation.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by rats60

Judge has a wRC+ of 177, Bonds 172. Bonds doped for most of his career and he was still worse than Judge.

I gave you the numbers during the same age range. Judge hasn't gone through his decline years yet and has only had five seasons of at least 140 games, while Bonds had fifteen.

[patchgenie]

Originally Posted by kellmuff

I think people have forgotten how great Trout was prior to injuries piling up the last few years tbh. It's not even close and I think Judge is the best hitter of this generation.

nah, he didn't lead his team anywhere

[regularp]

Originally Posted by kellmuff

I think people have forgotten how great Trout was prior to injuries piling up the last few years tbh. It's not even close and I think Judge is the best hitter of this generation.

That's what happens when you play in three playoff games for your entire career and choose to stick with a loser franchise.

Trout is a better player than Bryce Harper but Harper will be remembered by more baseball fans because of his postseason performances in Philly. Judge will be remembered MUCH more than Trout.

What is the signature moment of Trout's career? Getting struck out by Ohtani in the WBC?

[dodgerfanjohn]

Originally Posted by patchgenie

nah, he didn't lead his team anywhere

This isn’t basketball where one player can lead a team to greatness.

Ted Williams was a better hitter than anyone else during his career and certainly better than anyone today and yet made only one World Series when there were only 8 teams in the league.

Ernie Banks never made a post season.

Multiple other examples. 9 players on the field at all times. The best players average 4 plate appearances per game. Not possible for one player to sway a bad team enough to make them ws contenders. There’s a reason even the best players have WAR amounts in the 11-13 range.

[49ersSF]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

Ted Williams was a better hitter than anyone else during his career and certainly better than anyone today and yet made only one World Series when there were only 8 teams in the league.

Let's examine the Boston Red Sox time with Ted Williams. First let's take a look at the Red Sox's record while Ted was playing.

1939 - 89-62 (2nd of 8)
1940 - 82-72 (4th of 8)
1941 - 84-70 (2nd of 8)
1942 - 93-59 (2nd of 8)
1943 - 68-84 (7th of 8) Did not play. Fought in WW2
1944 - 77-77 (4th of 8) Did not play. Fought in WW2
1945 - 71-73 (7th of 8) Did not play. Fought in WW2
1946 - 104-50 (1st of 8) World series loss
1947 - 83-71 (3rd of 8)
1948 - 96-59 (2nd of 8)
1949 - 96-58 (2nd of 8)
1950 - 94-60 (3rd of 8)
1951 - 87-67 (3rd of 8)
1952 - 76-78 (6th of 8) Did not play. Fought in the Korean War
1953 - 84-69 (4th of 8) Did not play. Fought in the Korean War
1954 - 69-84 (4th of 8)
1955 - 84-70 (4th of 8)
1956 - 84-70 (4th of 8)
1957 - 82-72 (3rd of 8)
1958 - 79-75 (3rd of 8)
1959 - 75-79 (5th of 8) injured nearly half the season
1960 - 65-89 (7th of 8)

Let's remember that Ted Williams played in a time when MLB teams did not get participation rewards. There was only 1 team out of 8 that made the playoffs and they played in the same American League as the Yankes who were the most stacked teams in MLB history.

Mike Trout plays in a time when teams have a 40% chance of making the playoffs every year. Ted Williams played in an era where teams had a 12% chance of making the playoffs. If the Wild Card system existed back in his day, we'd see the 2nd and 3rd place teams making the playoffs as well. So this means by today's standards, Ted Williams would have made the playoffs 10 times during his 17-year career. Let's also factor in that the Red Sox were ten games over .500 12 times out of 17 seasons with Ted Williams.

Furthermore, from 1946 through 1960 there was only 1 HoF player who started for the Red Sox. Bobby Doerr retired in 1951 and made the Hall of Fame 35 years after he retired. During the same time, the Yankees had 7 starters who would join the Hall of Fame.

Mike Trout's Angels play in the Wild Card era in a division where the A's have made the playoffs 7 times during his career. Mike Trout's Angels have had a .500 or above record just 3 times in his 14 years(2012-2025).

[corndog]

Trout has been shiny chrome longer than Judge including in the field and SBs.
Judge has had a few seasons where his shine was refractored.

Hope this helps.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by rats60

WAR is a counting stat. Judge has a higher WAR/162 games than Trout. Judge is a much better hitter. Judge is much better defensively, even if you use positional adjustments, Judge is still better defensively. Judge has had the higher peak. He has had 3 seasons with an OPS+ of 200, Trout zero. Trout is a better base runner, that's it. Overall, Judge has been the better player.

Trout's peak was before Judge was basically in the major leagues, so yea I'm calling a recency bias, and I think you just overall don't seem like to like Trout based on the way you are attempting to manipulate.

Also, I know your hatred for Bonds, but saying he doped 'most' of his career (definitely not true) and in the same token calling Judge a better hitter without doping is laughable.

Definitely not surprising coming from you, though. It's your shtick, I get it.

[theshowandme]

Blowout gonna Blowout

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by patchgenie

nah, he didn't lead his team anywhere

No 1 player, or 2, or 3 players for that 'lead' a Baseball team anywhere. This isn't the NBA. Why are people still saying dumb stuff like this?

[TheHeel]

No doubt Trout

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by awz50

Still think people forget how big Trout was in the 2010s but ill give it to you Judge does have some big moments, and yes he is a Yankee which means they are even bigger then if he was on the Angels. It still does not diminish the fact that right now Trout is the better player if they both retired right now.

Judge probably will take that over in the next couple of years barring injury though

I voted for Trout. I was just answering memorable moments. Honestly other than the Triple Crown win, I can't think of another memorable moment Trout has had.

[rcgdodge]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

I voted for Trout. I was just answering memorable moments. Honestly other than the Triple Crown win, I can't think of another memorable moment Trout has had.

Don't remember Trout winning the triple crown. You thinking about Miguel Cabrera?

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by rcgdodge

Don't remember Trout winning the triple crown. You thinking about Miguel Cabrera?

You are correct. I transposed Miggy winning it to Trout because of the big debate over the MVP that year. So, yeah, now I can't remember one single memorable thing Trout has every done.

[jlzinck]

You are no Hairy

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

I own a single Mike Trout non base card that is worth somewhere between $40-$80. There's no way you look at the numbers today and say Judge > Trout (and again, that makes sense given Trout started 5 full seasons before Judge did). Also, positional value matters. Trout playing center most of his career until now and Judge mainly right field matters. If Trout continues his downslide and Judge does what he's been doing another couple years perhaps the answer is unanimously different, but today it's a dumb question because Trout is the easy answer.

But does playing center field below average to poorly matter? Trout should have been a left fielder years ago.

[daveyc1]

seems pretty simple. Judge's best 3-4 seasons have been better than Trouts best 3-4 seasons.

at the top of their games, Judge was better.

the Koufax comparison is an apt one here. who was better, koufax or gaylord perry? perry had a longer career and accumulated more, but at their peaks, who was better?

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

seems pretty simple. Judge's best 3-4 seasons have been better than Trouts best 3-4 seasons.

at the top of their games, Judge was better.

the Koufax comparison is an apt one here. who was better, koufax or gaylord perry? perry had a longer career and accumulated more, but at their peaks, who was better?

It is pretty simple for logical thinkers.

[Diamondjake]

You know it's Trout. I know it's Trout. Hell, Judge knows it's Trout.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Diamondjake

You know it's Trout. I know it's Trout. Hell, Judge knows it's Trout.

Judge would just say that because he’s a humble guy. If you ask him, he’ll tell you that he leads the league in humbleness.

[Diamondjake]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Judge would just say that because he’s a humble guy. If you ask him, he’ll tell you that he leads the league in humbleness.

I'll give you that. Judge is as awesome as they come. I mean truth is they are both freaking badass and we are lucky to have seen either one. I just have more Trout stuff so until I have more Judge stuff, TROUT #1.

[rcgdodge]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

You are correct. I transposed Miggy winning it to Trout because of the big debate over the MVP that year. So, yeah, now I can't remember one single memorable thing Trout has every done.

He'll be known for Ohtani striking him out to win the WBC.

[dodgerfanjohn]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

Let's examine the Boston Red Sox time with Ted Williams. First let's take a look at the Red Sox's record while Ted was playing.

1939 - 89-62 (2nd of 8)
1940 - 82-72 (4th of 8)
1941 - 84-70 (2nd of 8)
1942 - 93-59 (2nd of 8)
1943 - 68-84 (7th of 8) Did not play. Fought in WW2
1944 - 77-77 (4th of 8) Did not play. Fought in WW2
1945 - 71-73 (7th of 8) Did not play. Fought in WW2
1946 - 104-50 (1st of 8) World series loss
1947 - 83-71 (3rd of 8)
1948 - 96-59 (2nd of 8)
1949 - 96-58 (2nd of 8)
1950 - 94-60 (3rd of 8)
1951 - 87-67 (3rd of 8)
1952 - 76-78 (6th of 8) Did not play. Fought in the Korean War
1953 - 84-69 (4th of 8) Did not play. Fought in the Korean War
1954 - 69-84 (4th of 8)
1955 - 84-70 (4th of 8)
1956 - 84-70 (4th of 8)
1957 - 82-72 (3rd of 8)
1958 - 79-75 (3rd of 8)
1959 - 75-79 (5th of 8) injured nearly half the season
1960 - 65-89 (7th of 8)

Let's remember that Ted Williams played in a time when MLB teams did not get participation rewards. There was only 1 team out of 8 that made the playoffs and they played in the same American League as the Yankes who were the most stacked teams in MLB history.

Mike Trout plays in a time when teams have a 40% chance of making the playoffs every year. Ted Williams played in an era where teams had a 12% chance of making the playoffs. If the Wild Card system existed back in his day, we'd see the 2nd and 3rd place teams making the playoffs as well. So this means by today's standards, Ted Williams would have made the playoffs 10 times during his 17-year career. Let's also factor in that the Red Sox were ten games over .500 12 times out of 17 seasons with Ted Williams.

Furthermore, from 1946 through 1960 there was only 1 HoF player who started for the Red Sox. Bobby Doerr retired in 1951 and made the Hall of Fame 35 years after he retired. During the same time, the Yankees had 7 starters who would join the Hall of Fame.

Mike Trout's Angels play in the Wild Card era in a division where the A's have made the playoffs 7 times during his career. Mike Trout's Angels have had a .500 or above record just 3 times in his 14 years(2012-2025).

This doesnt disprove the fact that one player can't lead a team to the world series in baseball.

[JoshMN]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

You are correct. I transposed Miggy winning it to Trout because of the big debate over the MVP that year. So, yeah, now I can't remember one single memorable thing Trout has every done.

LOL. This comment sums up the thread perfectly. Should have just called /thread right then and there.

Instead, we have people providing in-depth analysis about the potential effects of the wild card system on the 1940s and 50s Red Sox.