Matthew Stafford HOF?

[blackvodka]

Honestly, I don't see Russell Wilson getting in and not Matthew Stafford.

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[ninjacookies]

Similar to Eli.

Won't get in first ballot based on the new era saturation of gaudy passing stats. But will get in eventually.

[JustinVerlander07]

Did anyone ever consider Stafford a top 5 QB in ANY season? That's a HOFer? You guys have some low standards.

It'll be a travesty when Eli Manning gets in, but at least his fans can cling to 2 Super Bowls, Stafford has 1 and a single playoff win outside the Super Bowl run. He just stad padded most his career.

[Boo]

Stat Padford should not be in the HOF.

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by Dallas Cowboys

You were trying to bait me in saying whether Aikman and Elway were better than Young or Marino. Aikman is in because he has three rings, if he just had one like Stafford he probably doesn’t get in.

When I’m looking at who should get in I’m only comparing who they played against in their era.
2000-2025
Favre and Warner and Peyton Manning are in.
Brady, Brees and Big Ben and Rodgers and Wilson will get in.
Eli will eventually get in.
Mahomes will get in.

That’s who I compare Rivers, Stafford and Ryan to. Compared to those guys above they are not hall of Famers.

I collect Hall of Fame autographs so I know how it works. You think All Pros and all decade don’t matter you are wrong. The guys that vote for those usually also have a hall of fame vote. They look at those accolades.


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I didn't bait you. You made a claim that only the very best, 1st/2nd in this case, of their generation should be in the HoF. Then I pointed out that 6+ QBs of the mid-80s to 2000 generation got in. Then you pointed to rings.

I respect your full opinion though, I agree that Rivers and Ryan shouldn't be in. I think Marino obviously, and Fouts, and Tarkenton I guess who I didn't see play, were all elite or top tier. And yes that's where I agree with you, if you have zero rings you cannot be maybe the 6th best QB to 9th best QB on average throughout your prime and career. Stafford was that, maybe top 5 in some seasons, but he has a ring. And he has the longevity counting stats.

So I think if we're considering Eli then we have to consider Stafford personally. And I think both could easily get in, and probably should. Other people here are pretending like every HoF QB is some all-time great...which they should be. But they aren't. 25-30% are old guys who played in a different era/game, who might be bums in the 80s-2000s or now.

We have Namath in, Warren Moon? Was Moon ever considered better than Marino/Elway/Favre/Young/Aikman? Norm Van Brocklin, Ken Stabler? It's not some uniform consistent HoF with only the Montanas, P.Mannings, Bradys, Mahomes of future in there.

[2010GBPackers]

#1 All-Pros matter a lot. More than SB rings, in fact.

#2 It's the Pro Football HOF. Warren Moon was a monster early in his career in the CFL. He won 5 straight championships and put up huge numbers. He played there in his prime and combined with his NFL stats, threw for over 70,000 yards. He's easily deserves to be in the HOF.

[Dallas Cowboys]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

#1 All-Pros matter a lot. More than SB rings, in fact.

#2 It's the Pro Football HOF. Warren Moon was a monster early in his career in the CFL. He won 5 straight championships and put up huge numbers. He played there in his prime and combined with his NFL stats, threw for over 70,000 yards. He's easily deserves to be in the HOF.

Exactly!

It’s obvious to me that most members commenting on this thread don’t understand how the HOF voters vote. All Pros and All Decade team matters!

Warren Moon put up those numbers in a time when football was still mainly a running game. Imagine what he could do in today’s game. He did all this in an era when Owners/General Manager/coaches still believed in the stereotype that African Americans weren’t smart enough to play quarterback. His enshrinement is well deserved.

[Tea10]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

#1 All-Pros matter a lot. More than SB rings, in fact.

#2 It's the Pro Football HOF. Warren Moon was a monster early in his career in the CFL. He won 5 straight championships and put up huge numbers. He played there in his prime and combined with his NFL stats, threw for over 70,000 yards. He's easily deserves to be in the HOF.

Canadian Football League matters now, come on bro. We're here talking about a guy with a SB ring and top 5-10 passing yards not making it, but we're citing CFL stats?

[88horsepower]

By the end of this season, there's a chance he is in the Top 5 in passing yards and Top 5 in passing touchdowns, all-time. He has a Super Bowl ring. He carried a bad football team for years and has a tremendous story of perseverance on his side with the win finally coming once he played for a great team. He has signature moments in his career, playing through pain. He has 15 postseason touchdowns to just 3 interceptions with the Rams. The guy has done enough to have earned the gold jacket.

John Elway, Roger Staubach, Tim Brown, Eli Manning, Andre Reed, Warren Moon, and plenty of other Hall of Famers were never 1st Team All-Pro. The lack of Pro Bowl and All-Pro nods isn't going to result in a death knell to Stafford's Hall of Fame chances. The numbers are too overwhelming. The argument that they are "accumulation" numbers ignores the fact that to "accumulate" those kinds of lofty numbers you have to be good for a long time, meaning a player was not only good but also desired for a long period of time enough to be a starting quarterback for over 15 years.

[jdandns]

Stafford may have just set an unbreakable record, with his 17th opening day start to begin a career, breaking his tie with John Elway. Imagine being effective enough right of college to get the Week 1 call and then staying healthy and being worthy enough to do it another 16 times after that, with more possible. He was instrumental in yesterday's win, too. His passes were crisp and on a line.

I can tell you as a Rams fan, our hope is that Stafford can get another Super Bowl, at which point, his massive regular season stats would become secondary to the argument for enshrinement.

[Dallas Cowboys]

Originally Posted by Tea10

Canadian Football League matters now, come on bro. We're here talking about a guy with a SB ring and top 5-10 passing yards not making it, but we're citing CFL stats?

Historical context matters.

In 1974 when Moon was eligible for the draft the prevailing sentiment around the league was African Americans weren’t smart enough to play quarterback in the NFL and or they wouldn’t stay in the pocket and use their legs too much

Moon was going to be a late round draft pick that might not ever gotten a shot. So he went to the CFL. You may not agree with it but it’s the pro football hall of fame and voters did take into consideration his time and numbers in the CFL.

He then puts up huge numbers in the NFL with the run and shoot offense at a time when the league was becoming a more passing league but still very much a run heavy league. Him and his receivers didn’t enjoy all the protections current player have. Moon proved African Americans could succeed as a starting quarterback in the NFL and was a trailblazer for future African American quarterbacks.

Stafford had put up big numbers in an era when if a defender even sneezes in the direction of a receiver or quarterback he gets flagged.

[mjekase]

Originally Posted by Tea10

Canadian Football League matters now, come on bro. We're here talking about a guy with a SB ring and top 5-10 passing yards not making it, but we're citing CFL stats?

This is not a slight on Stafford - I think he gets in at some point, not first ballot.
But Warren Moon's NFL-only resume is worthy, and arguably just as good as Stafford's. Aside from the numbers compiled in a less passer-friendly era, he was top-6 in MVP voting three times....won AP OPOY...and 9X Pro Bowl when it carried more weight.

[mfisher27]

Originally Posted by Dallas Cowboys

You were trying to bait me in saying whether Aikman and Elway were better than Young or Marino. Aikman is in because he has three rings, if he just had one like Stafford he probably doesn’t get in.

When I’m looking at who should get in I’m only comparing who they played against in their era.
2000-2025
Favre and Warner and Peyton Manning are in.
Brady, Brees and Big Ben and Rodgers and Wilson will get in.
Eli will eventually get in.
Mahomes will get in.

That’s who I compare Rivers, Stafford and Ryan to. Compared to those guys above they are not hall of Famers.

I collect Hall of Fame autographs so I know how it works. You think All Pros and all decade don’t matter you are wrong. The guys that vote for those usually also have a hall of fame vote. They look at those accolades.


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I can see valid points in favor or against in the thread from a bunch of commentors but are you referring to Russell Wilson here?

Curious on how you have Wilson in the HOF but not Stafford. Not agreeing or disagreeing with either side, just wondering what that comparison looked like.

[Dallas Cowboys]

I’m not saying I personally think Russell Wilson is a hall of famer but based on his early career and how voters vote he has a better shot than Stafford. They each just have one ring but Wilson has more NFL accolades.


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[mjekase]

Originally Posted by Dallas Cowboys

I’m not saying I personally think Russell Wilson is a hall of famer but based on his early career and how voters vote he has a better shot than Stafford. They each just have one ring but Wilson has more NFL accolades.

And 5500yds/31TDs on the ground. Mobility/rushing numbers are going to become a bigger part of the equation with this current generation of QBs and their candidacies.

[Dallas Cowboys]

Originally Posted by mjekase

And 5500yds/31TDs on the ground. Mobility/rushing numbers are going to become a bigger part of the equation with this current generation of QBs and their candidacies.

I agree.


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[Dallas Cowboys]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

By the end of this season, there's a chance he is in the Top 5 in passing yards and Top 5 in passing touchdowns, all-time. He has a Super Bowl ring. He carried a bad football team for years and has a tremendous story of perseverance on his side with the win finally coming once he played for a great team. He has signature moments in his career, playing through pain. He has 15 postseason touchdowns to just 3 interceptions with the Rams. The guy has done enough to have earned the gold jacket.

John Elway, Roger Staubach, Tim Brown, Eli Manning, Andre Reed, Warren Moon, and plenty of other Hall of Famers were never 1st Team All-Pro. The lack of Pro Bowl and All-Pro nods isn't going to result in a death knell to Stafford's Hall of Fame chances. The numbers are too overwhelming. The argument that they are "accumulation" numbers ignores the fact that to "accumulate" those kinds of lofty numbers you have to be good for a long time, meaning a player was not only good but also desired for a long period of time enough to be a starting quarterback for over 15 years.

Horsepower really your comparing Stafford’s chances to Elway and Staubach?? They may have not had 1st team all pros but had second team and both made all decade team. Here’s screenshots:

Elway:



Staubach:



Stafford:




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[TheVolta]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

He's definitely getting in. This isn't even a question for me.

Ditto

[88horsepower]

I’m saying it’s a weak argument to claim that a lack of All-Pro nods are a death knell for Stafford’s chances. I also mentioned several other players. You chose to cherry-pick two of them to weaken the argument. How about the other players I mentioned? Why did Tim Brown get in?

The answer is not difficult to ascertain. Long career of high-level production without being dominant. That does count for a lot in the eyes of voters.

Originally Posted by Dallas Cowboys

Horsepower really your comparing Stafford’s chances to Elway and Staubach?? They may have not had 1st team all pros but had second team and both made all decade team. Here’s screenshots:

Elway:



Staubach:



Stafford:




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[Dallas Cowboys]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

I’m saying it’s a weak argument to claim that a lack of All-Pro nods are a death knell for Stafford’s chances. I also mentioned several other players. You chose to cherry-pick two of them to weaken the argument. How about the other players I mentioned? Why did Tim Brown get in?

The answer is not difficult to ascertain. Long career of high-level production without being dominant. That does count for a lot in the eyes of voters.

I picked those two guys because you chose them and they are all quarterbacks.
You cherry picked 1st team all pros for your argument when Elway and Staubach have a lot of other accolades Stafford doesn’t have. And those accolades or in Staffords lack of them count in the eyes of voters.


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[Dallas Cowboys]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

I’m saying it’s a weak argument to claim that a lack of All-Pro nods are a death knell for Stafford’s chances. I also mentioned several other players. You chose to cherry-pick two of them to weaken the argument. How about the other players I mentioned? Why did Tim Brown get in?

The answer is not difficult to ascertain. Long career of high-level production without being dominant. That does count for a lot in the eyes of voters.

Ok I’ll play along if you want to use Tim Brown:
Tim Brown has two first team all pros, 9 pro bowls and was named to the 90s all decade team.
Stafford didn’t make the 2010s all decade team and I doubt will make the 2020 all decade team.

[mjekase]

Tim Brown's also top-7 all time in two yardage categories: receiving and punt returns. Made Pro Bowls at both positions. I think the comparisons should stick to QBs.

[JWBlue]

He will get it but probably shouldn't.

How does his W-L record compare to other QB?

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by blackvodka

Honestly, I don't see Russell Wilson getting in and not Matthew Stafford.

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Russell Wilson is getting in?

Joking, just a little ragebait for homie Ninjacookies.

[Braswell10]

If Stafford gets in, Rivers gets in.