Luis Gonzalez: cheat?

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Is the reason his cards are worth so little is because there are next to no Diamondback fans? You could make a HOF case looking at the numbers and that’s without taking into his World Series heroics.

Objectively comparing him to historical Left Fielders, Gonzalez falls right on the Hall of Fame border. His career totals look a lot like HOFer Heinie Manush but with more power for Luis and a better batting average for Manush. Then again, they also look like Jose Cruz with more power and Cruz was also one and done.

The 2014 ballot was one of the most crowded of the PED HOF voting era. That was the same year Palmeiro dropped off after hanging around for a few years. That ballot had 14 eventual (and still counting) HOFers on it with three 1st ballot guys making it.

As for his cards, there are Diamondback fans but he spent only about half his career there. He’s still popular in Arizona for his contributions to their ‘01 championship but without the Hall of Fame, he’s basically Kirk Gibson or Joe Carter; famous and notable, enough to keep him out of the common pile, just not enough to make his cards more than a novelty outside of Arizona.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by rats60

Your post makes no sense. Johnson hit the same number of Home Runs in 1971 as he hit in 1974. The home road splits over a 162 game season were two home runs. That is a normal variance.

His peak was accomplished in the one season he played in Atlanta with the fences moved in. Those balls the next season were outs instead of over the fence. The lack of home runs in 1974 resulted in fewer at bats, further reducing his power numbers. Even his road numbers of 17 vs 10 are within a reasonable variance, just at a high end.

Look at Blowout favorite Kyle Schwarber. In 2024 he hit 18 HRs on the road. In 2023 he hit 24, a variance of 6. He is at 22 this season a variance of 4. He could easily reach 7 or more.

Johnson's HR totals more than doubled because he played 81 games in a stadium at altitude with the fences moved in when his previous seasons he played 0. A player's home park matters a lot in baseball.

rats, I'm curious if you think the fact that most of the 74 Braves were on steroids makes it more likely or less likely Johnson (or Aaron or whoever) were also on steroids.

To be fair, I'm mostly basing this on random Tom House comments along the lines of the entire bullpen/staff was on steroids. There is def a non -% chance he is lying or someone only the pen was on the juice and rest of team said nah I'm good (both seem extremely unlikely)

[BigL7370]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Is the reason his cards are worth so little is because there are next to no Diamondback fans? You could make a HOF case looking at the numbers and that’s without taking into his World Series heroics.

It’s harder to make an impression as a player in your 30s and while Gonzalez was perfectly good Major Leaguer - he didn’t really tap on his hitting potential until he got to Arizona.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by StateEx

This sums it up perfectly. Reminds me of the Onion article re Bonds:

https://theonion.com/barry-bonds-too...ve-1819568339/

“I originally heard that Barry Bonds was on steroids during a Giants game in 2001, when my buddy Phil, who was on the couch next to me, said, ’Dude, that Barry Bonds guy is definitely on steroids,’” said Chicago resident Mitch Oliveras. “After 10 seconds of careful observation, and performing a brief comparison of Bonds’ present neck width with that on Phil’s old 1986 Bonds rookie card, I was convinced.”

Right.

I feel like there are certain things in life that don't necessarily require a degree in biomechanical physiology to arrive at a fairly reasonable conclusion.

A bit of context, 2 functioning eyeballs, and deductive reasoning can be extremely effective in unison.

And I've always been in the camp of 'so damn what?' The steroid era was the most enjoyable viewing experience of my entire childhood. I could care less about this great mirage of 'beisbol sanctity' which has never really existed in its entire history. It's amazing the levels of mental gymnastics some will go to to try and defend the honor of some dude that doesn't know them from a can of paint.

They're entertainers. And they're entertaining.

[Cactuspies]

late round pick in my yahoo fantasy league who did a good job in helping me win

[JRX]

If not for roids, that ball off Mariano wouldn't have made the grass lol

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JRX

If not for roids, that ball off Mariano wouldn't have made the grass lol

Probably.

The extra strength and muscle mass from steroids made jam-shot outs into hits, just like they made warning track fly-outs into homers.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by JRX

If not for roids, that ball off Mariano wouldn't have made the grass lol

Here's a fun question to ask. If you had to guess a number, what % of Latin American pitchers from 2000 took steroids at some point in their career (lets call it age 14+)

[BigL7370]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

Here's a fun question to ask. If you had to guess a number, what % of Latin American pitchers from 2000 took steroids at some point in their career (lets call it age 14+)

I would assume just as high as American pitchers who wanted to get into pro ball, throw 95, get to and stick in big leagues for X number of years and/or recover from a major injury.

[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Did Luis Gonzalez do steroids?

Probably.

[BostonNut]

If only Torre wasn't a moron and had the infield at double play depth with the bases loaded and a led foot at the plate, nobody would care about Luis Gonzalez.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

If only Torre wasn't a moron and had the infield at double play depth with the bases loaded and a led foot at the plate, nobody would care about Luis Gonzalez.

This Boston fan gets it.

[BigL7370]

Luis Gonzalez is a franchise icon with longstanding ties with the DBacks to this date.

[Cactuspies]

just saw Gonzo in some commercials this weekend and I guess I just zone out and don't pay a lot of attention to commercials normally. I wouldn't have know it was him at all. I could walk by him on the street and not even notice. I still think of this stick figure he had playing ball. I thought it was one of the Lerner & Rowe guys without a toupee and girdle on LOL.

[PeteD]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Probably.

The extra strength and muscle mass from steroids made jam-shot outs into hits, just like they made warning track fly-outs into homers.

Clemens was on the Yankees and roided up in '01...so it all evens out if Gonzo was.