Is Kyle Schwarber a HOFer?

[oldgoldy97]

It’s over.

His plaque will be a Cubbie, though.

[Cards and 401K]

Great game to watch MVP


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[ObanMontecristo]

Phillies with 4 HR in a game:

Ed Delahanty- HOF
Chuck Klein- HOF
Mike Schmidt- HOF
Kyle Schwarber- ????

[JoshMN]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

It’s over.

His plaque will be a Cubbie, though.

We’ll allow it only if Bill Murray gives the speech.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by JoshMN

That’s right, isn’t it? When did the true testing start?

Ohtani is #2 at 54 in my mind, as much as I’d like to assume Ryan Howard was clean.

Hack Wilson was drinking horse urine and eating gorilla prostates like everyone else from that era. So he can’t be trusted.

Yes. It is correct. This would be the list:

Giancarlo “Bigfoot” Stanton 59 2017
Ryan “Eat Fresh” Howard 58 2006
Luis “Gonzo” Gonzalez 57 2001
Lewis “Hack” Wilson 56 1930

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Yes. It is correct. This would be the list:

Giancarlo “Bigfoot” Stanton 59 2017
Ryan “Eat Fresh” Howard 58 2006
Luis “Gonzo” Gonzalez 57 2001
Lewis “Hack” Wilson 56 1930

Wait -- Luis Gonzalez?: https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=2486240

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Wait -- Luis Gonzalez?: https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=2486240

What does that prove?

Here. I’ll say you’re on steroids, too. Now prove you’re not.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

What does that prove?

Here. I’ll say you’re on steroids, too. Now prove you’re not.

Well, I believe the veiny arms are in fact an indication of steroid use. The very lean muscle mass is as well.

[fabiani12333]

I willing to believe anything:

[fabiani12333]

I definitely believe Schwarber is clean -- he has great bat speed and is selling out for power, with a career .231 batting average and the 13th-highest average launch angle this season (out of 153 qualified players).

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Wait -- Luis Gonzalez?: https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=2486240

Yep. Luis Gonzalez. He wasn’t in the Mitchell Report. He wasn’t on the 2003 leaked list. No one ever named him. His own teammate who was busted and was a known supplier, Jason Grimsley, named a bunch of players but never named Luis. I can only go by the information available and if there’s no actual evidence then I’m not sure what else there is to do but consider him clean.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Yep. Luis Gonzalez. He wasn’t in the Mitchell Report. He wasn’t on the 2003 leaked list. No one ever named him. His own teammate who was busted and was a known supplier, Jason Grimsley, named a bunch of players but never named Luis. I can only go by the information available and if there’s no actual evidence then I’m not sure what else there is to do but consider him clean.

You really have to bury your head in the sand to not be suspicious of Luis Gonzalez.

Notable Incidents & Rumors
1. Ken Kendrick’s “Whispers” (2006)

In June 2006, Diamondbacks managing partner Ken Kendrick mentioned that there were "whispers" about Luis González potentially using performance‑enhancing drugs, citing the contrast between his remarkable power peak in 2001 (57 home runs) and his production in later years. At the time, González strongly denied any wrongdoing, calling a press conference and insisting: “I almost have to sit here today to defend myself for no reason.”

2. Alleged 2003 Positive Test

A fantasy sports blog (RotoInfo.com via Bleacher Report) published what it claimed to be a leaked list of players who tested positive in 2003, and a “Luis González” was included. However, the authenticity of this list was unverified, and it's unclear whether it refers to the Diamondbacks’ outfielder or another player of the same name.


3. Mention in Juiced and Mitchell Report

José Canseco’s 2005 tell‑all book Juiced named González among several players he allegedly introduced to steroids. González has denied these claims.

The 2007 Mitchell Report mentions a 2001 incident involving a bag linked to either González or his personal trainer containing substances legal at the time—but possibly now banned. While González was linked to this incident, no conclusive evidence tied him to PED use.


4. Lack of Positive Test or Admission

Despite the speculation, González has never tested positive for steroids, nor made any admission of use. He was not named by any other player or witness in any official investigation related to PEDs.

[dodgerfanjohn]

Originally Posted by Cards and 401K

Great game to watch MVP


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Yeah, ok.





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[49ersSF]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

You really have to bury your head in the sand to not be suspicious of Luis Gonzalez.

30+ years later, and you still have the same people doing anything and everything to deny player steroid use. No doubt they denied McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, too back in the day. Even when the players admitted they were steroid junkies these fans would do anything and everything to downplay the importance to it. They will never give up.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

You really have to bury your head in the sand to not be suspicious of Luis Gonzalez.

Notable Incidents & Rumors
1. Ken Kendrick’s “Whispers” (2006)

In June 2006, Diamondbacks managing partner Ken Kendrick mentioned that there were "whispers" about Luis González potentially using performance‑enhancing drugs, citing the contrast between his remarkable power peak in 2001 (57 home runs) and his production in later years. At the time, González strongly denied any wrongdoing, calling a press conference and insisting: “I almost have to sit here today to defend myself for no reason.”

2. Alleged 2003 Positive Test

A fantasy sports blog (RotoInfo.com via Bleacher Report) published what it claimed to be a leaked list of players who tested positive in 2003, and a “Luis González” was included. However, the authenticity of this list was unverified, and it's unclear whether it refers to the Diamondbacks’ outfielder or another player of the same name.


3. Mention in Juiced and Mitchell Report

José Canseco’s 2005 tell‑all book Juiced named González among several players he allegedly introduced to steroids. González has denied these claims.

The 2007 Mitchell Report mentions a 2001 incident involving a bag linked to either González or his personal trainer containing substances legal at the time—but possibly now banned. While González was linked to this incident, no conclusive evidence tied him to PED use.


4. Lack of Positive Test or Admission


Despite the speculation, González has never tested positive for steroids, nor made any admission of use. He was not named by any other player or witness in any official investigation related to PEDs.

1st, I never stated whether I was suspicious or not; simply that there isn’t any evidence. My opinion is immaterial to the question of whether or not Luis Gonzalez took performance enhancing drugs.

As for your list…

1. Whispers about potential use because of numbers are not evidence.

2. The rotoinfo.com published blog is a well known phony list.

3. Canseco never mentioned Luis Gonzalez in his book. He named Juan Gonzalez. They are not the same person.

4. The Mitchell report never mentions Luis Gonzalez. It mentions a 2001 incident about a bag possibly belonging to Juan Gonzalez. Again, Juan is not the same person as Luis. Also, the Indians GM, John Hart later said the incident was fully investigated and they cleared Juan.

Your post is exactly why there’s so much confusion about the era. There were plenty of cheaters, we don’t need to fabricate evidence or make unfounded accusations. We know Juan was a cheater. We do not know if Luis was.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

30+ years later, and you still have the same people doing anything and everything to deny player steroid use. No doubt they denied McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, too back in the day. Even when the players admitted they were steroid junkies these fans would do anything and everything to downplay the importance to it. They will never give up.

Not sure if this is directed at me, but back then or now, I’ve never denied anything. No one loathes the cheaters more than I did. Especially back then. McGwire, Bonds, and Sosa are all well known cheaters. The evidence against Sosa is identical to David Ortiz. If Sosa is guilty then so is Ortiz. As for Clemens, the evidence is a lot more uncertain.

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Not sure if this is directed at me, but back then or now, I’ve never denied anything. No one loathes the cheaters more than I did. Especially back then. McGwire, Bonds, and Sosa are all well known cheaters. The evidence against Sosa is identical to David Ortiz. If Sosa is guilty then so is Ortiz. As for Clemens, the evidence is a lot more uncertain.

If Pettite did HGH, then his bestie Clemens certainly did too. (At the very least)

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[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by hxcmilkshake

If Pettite did HGH, then his bestie Clemens certainly did too. (At the very least)

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Sort of. The only evidence is Pettitte, during his deposition, saying Clemens did it. However, when going on the stand during the trial, Pettitte recanted. To me, that’s pretty damning. However, if we trust our justice system, then Clemens was exonerated during his perjury trial. He’s the only figure from that era who literally won a court case specifically about his taking PEDs.

So, rather than simply lumping him in with everyone else, I look at him as anomaly as it relates to PEDs. He probably took them, but the only reliable witness turned out to be a moron. So, I hesitate including him.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

1st, I never stated whether I was suspicious or not; simply that there isn’t any evidence. My opinion is immaterial to the question of whether or not Luis Gonzalez took performance enhancing drugs.

As for your list…

1. Whispers about potential use because of numbers are not evidence.

2. The rotoinfo.com published blog is a well known phony list.

3. Canseco never mentioned Luis Gonzalez in his book. He named Juan Gonzalez. They are not the same person.

4. The Mitchell report never mentions Luis Gonzalez. It mentions a 2001 incident about a bag possibly belonging to Juan Gonzalez. Again, Juan is not the same person as Luis. Also, the Indians GM, John Hart later said the incident was fully investigated and they cleared Juan.

Your post is exactly why there’s so much confusion about the era. There were plenty of cheaters, we don’t need to fabricate evidence or make unfounded accusations. We know Juan was a cheater. We do not know if Luis was.

I like how understated your answer is, especially pointing out the simple truth that Juan and Luis Gonzalez are indeed not the same human being. One cannot be blamed for not believing all of the unsubstantiated noise about steroid users. Well done!

[Archangel1775]

Since this is a Schwarber thread, I'll assume the steroid talk is somehow connected to him. I'll never understand how players built like bears their whole lives, that one would assume would be steroid users. I'm not saying it's not possible but they look like human bears. Frank Thomas, Prince Fielder and now Kyle Schwarber. Look at Cal Raleigh, why aren't there questions about him? Vlad Jr.? If you look closely, you'll see they ALL have one thing in common.

[awz50]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

You really have to bury your head in the sand to not be suspicious of Luis Gonzalez.

Notable Incidents & Rumors
1. Ken Kendrick’s “Whispers” (2006)

In June 2006, Diamondbacks managing partner Ken Kendrick mentioned that there were "whispers" about Luis González potentially using performance‑enhancing drugs, citing the contrast between his remarkable power peak in 2001 (57 home runs) and his production in later years. At the time, González strongly denied any wrongdoing, calling a press conference and insisting: “I almost have to sit here today to defend myself for no reason.”

2. Alleged 2003 Positive Test

A fantasy sports blog (RotoInfo.com via Bleacher Report) published what it claimed to be a leaked list of players who tested positive in 2003, and a “Luis González” was included. However, the authenticity of this list was unverified, and it's unclear whether it refers to the Diamondbacks’ outfielder or another player of the same name.


3. Mention in Juiced and Mitchell Report

José Canseco’s 2005 tell‑all book Juiced named González among several players he allegedly introduced to steroids. González has denied these claims.

The 2007 Mitchell Report mentions a 2001 incident involving a bag linked to either González or his personal trainer containing substances legal at the time—but possibly now banned. While González was linked to this incident, no conclusive evidence tied him to PED use.


4. Lack of Positive Test or Admission

Despite the speculation, González has never tested positive for steroids, nor made any admission of use. He was not named by any other player or witness in any official investigation related to PEDs.

Ah yes chat gpt answers. I like how its incorrect and sloppily written

[awz50]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

Yeah, ok.





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I feel like that's cherry picking a tad, now mix in traditional stats and advanced metrics. Cannot have one without the other

[jlzinck]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

What does that prove?

Here. I’ll say you’re on steroids, too. Now prove you’re not.

I'm on steroids. In gel form since they took out my pituitary tumor.

Back to the original topic.

Kyle is 2020's Dave Kingman. So no he's shouldn't get in but some stat nerd will come up with something and all the lemmings will say Kyle needs to be in.

[finfangfan]

I picked this one up off of COMC the other day. I’ve always liked the guy and would have loved to see him play for the Orioles.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Man, I wish the Red Sox had a guy like this at DH instead of Masataka "roll over grounder to 2nd" Yoshida.