What cards were displaying trade value at National?

[Chryghst]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Not Neismith

Not a single person even knew who he was. I asked everyone I spoke with

Facts

Honestly believe this. I started a new fantasy league last year and reached out to a ton of basketball card IG accounts to find joiners. The #1 answer I got back was that people didn’t watch basketball. Overlap between card collectors and league pass subscribers is shockingly low in the new hobby. Probably explains the highlight-reel bias.

[armyml]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Dang. I really picked the worst time to get into the hobby.

Thank god Indiana is basically basketball territory. There will always be a regional market to support likable Pacers and the '25 legend will only grow in the telling and rewatching.

If they don't pull a dynasty on us.

Indiana Card Store owner here. No demand on basketball so far this year. Entirely driven by the rookie class AND local talent. I'm in the town where the Plumlees all grew up so as long as I stock Plumlees or some Shawn Kemp people will snatch it up. Purdue stuff too. Other than that NBA stuff entirely dependent on rookie class as usual. 23-24 stuff was hot in the beginning due to Wemby. 24-25 has been ass so far.

[Nomad]

What part of Indiana are you in may I ask? From what the podcast indicated, there is like a regional divide and Pacers fans are concentrated in Indianapolis and regions north.

The other big if is whether, now that Indiana people will be able to watch the team on actual local broadcasts, this dynamic will change.

More than that, I think that there will be opposing fan scrutiny of the team anywhere they play. If they continue to play well early in the season, people will dial in Pacers games as ones to watch. I think the Haliburton aspect of the draw was overstated.

Watching Pacers is a new phenomenon. Until maybe the second round of playoffs there was mild interest, if that. I mean the true cognoscenti watched every game avidly cause other games were boring in comparison...

I don't want to go overboard and say a home state winning team may become popular, but stranger things have happened. I guess that part of this of course will involve dealers enthusiastic and knowledgeable about the team. Which is sensible, as it would open up new revenue streams. But really, these things take time.

Personally I have long been of the opinion that Nesmith would be best served moving to Lakers. Yeah, he would always have a support role, but now court results would translate into familiarity, sales. Who knows, Lake Show Life just presented a compelling trade scenario. I have been watching the Lakers' rebuild and thinking he is the perfect personality mesh. The no ego guy who plays with a chip and motivates those around him.

[ninjacookies]

Ya'll really gonna riverdance all over double A's hobby sarcophagus...in my man's own thread?



Like he said, all it takes is one Viktor Bout-Griner type exchange to Tinsel Town and we're encroaching Zion(postpartum)/Benjamin Simmons(kardashian pump) demand territory.

I've seen the Kurt Warner biopic.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Chill ka lang.




Ang mga dayuhan na ito just wouldn't understand.


This thread feelin like the passport bros asking directions to the nearest go-go bar.

Angeles or Manila?

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

All it takes is one Viktor Bout-Griner type exchange to Tinsel Town and we're encroaching Zion(postpartum)/Benjamin Simmons(kardashian pump) demand territory.

I've seen the Kurt Warner biopic.

I mean come now, we are not quite in Kurt Warner territory.

It is interesting that in the podcast that the Lake Show article references, Jason Timpf opines that while he believes the Lakers should start talking with Nesmith "I think Aaron is quite literally what the Lakers' need," he thinks that the team will instead wait, content not to compete for years, saving their first round pick for Giannis.

(Wait... when did Aaron become hypothetically worth a first round pick?)

Timpf goes on to say "Luka would benefit from a secondary superstar less than other superstars would. There's a reason why Luka has been on dead serious contenders with like Jalen Brunson as his secondary creator, or with Kyrie. Because Luka is so good at eating up so much usage , there's a diminishing return there. A Luka/Jokic team would suck as you would have such diminishing returns on shot creation and because they're both such poor athletes. With Luka I think it makes sense to build a team that is stacked with high-level role players."

Okay, so here is my theory. Smart and Nesmith worked out a system with the Celtics. They would be reunited. Bronny is being urged to become a secondary pest ala McConnell on Indiana. And Ayton is someone who fits the archetype of what the Pacers originally wanted to build (remember that offer the Suns matched). With Nesmith on board as a finishing piece (maybe along with Shepard) the Lakers would be a better version of Indiana. I mean if we consider Luka superior to Haliburton and LeBron superior to Siakam.

Indiana would preserve so much salary with a first round pick in a good draft, they could build out as well and afford to keep Hali, Mathurin, Furphy, Walker, and Nembhard. Indiana is second-apron conscious and LA is not. And they would literally have spun an $11 million player acquired for nothing, whom they can only offer $20 million to, into a high pick. I guess it's really Aaron's decision if LA makes an offer, cause Indy doesn't want to ultimately lose him for nothing.

[Nomad]

Posted this on a more active Lakers forum... results are encouraging. Consensus is a first round pick alone wouldn't be enough to get it done.

Maybe...

"I would be really happy with a Nesmith trade. I agree with Timpf. I think the fit is perfect with Luka. He could be our Derrick White.

The question is only what offer will the Pacers entertain. Rui is our 2nd most valuable tradable player. I'd be willing to use him along with the necessary picks."

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Gary

Angeles or Manila?

Quezon by way of the Jollibee in eastside Long Beach.

Originally Posted by Nomad

Posted this on a more active Lakers forum... results are encouraging. Consensus is a first round pick alone wouldn't be enough to get it done.

Maybe...

"I would be really happy with a Nesmith trade. I agree with Timpf. I think the fit is perfect with Luka. He could be our Derrick White.

The question is only what offer will the Pacers entertain. Rui is our 2nd most valuable tradable player. I'd be willing to use him along with the necessary picks."

This ain't Kurt.

This is Damar Hamlin.

[Nomad]

Damar Hamlin if he played aggressive offense as well as shut down defense, and led his team to the promised land, only to have the star QB go out in the first five minutes of the Super Bowl.

And if he was currently playing text tag with the Dallas Cowboys—and would hypothetically be playing alongside Tom Brady and Joe Burrow. But yes. An inspirational story.

I fully intend to keep buying those $4 black white panda prizms as long as they keep flowing.

Anyway, everyone knows your first card in the Gold & Purple is the true rookie.

[ninjacookies]

I thought the star QB was the deterrent to their ultimate championship aspirations due to his oftentimes erratic/heliocentric gunslinger on c̶o̶u̶r̶t̶ field mentality which stymied the potential of the yung core tho?


In any event, both team gigachads got hitched which may potentially leave an opening for the next dollar bin Golden Bachelor to seize the day and provide Dr. Umar Johnson fodder for his next IG Live.




Next Snowbunny Hunter up.

[Nomad]

Tyrese is an oft misunderstood force. He put in a lot of work this year. On defense. I like the fact that someone as unorthodox as him was given free rein. A lot of teams would not have been able to protect him and enable him to thrive.

The snowbunnies rap—essentially he was hanging platonically with whoever his girlfriend invited on trips. Can't help your hair color. I know it's traditionally more NBA accepted to hang out at clubs on the strip and try and score random chicks, but he has his thing.

Coach Carlisle is a big jazz fan and that's the way he let them operate. Off the court Ty was the spokesperson, but on the court it was a team of equals jamming free form. And Ty was essential in mixing up the beats. Nembhard might develop that ability, but to me he is way more predictable.

You are not wrong though. The 10 second attention span is a thing. I just hope Luka knows how to (unpredictably) dish.

btw you're in a thread that got 52k views in 12 hours. I mean I have been working toward 52k views on a couple threads here for years. I know you've let mention you've invested in AA the past couple years. Lakers fans unhesitatingly valuing him above Hachimiura, Reaves. YW.

[Nomad]

Or to talk up Haliburton in a different way:



Note that the opposing outliers have both had great success in the past two years (and are both out next season).

[jcardstore]

The hold time is predicated on the offensive system.

This is an intuitive stat if you understand how offensive systems are different. Pacers were much higher in percentage of possessions taking a shot early in the clock than the Celtics for example. Boston is bottom of the league in transition frequency and pacers are top 10.

This stat is less about the player and more about the offense.

[Nomad]

So if you run offense like a track meet you tend to make quicker decisions, as a unit? But some of it is predicated on the star.

I mean, Luka will never run a fast paced down-the-floor offense. I mean, unless he is much skinnier.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Nomad

So if you run offense like a track meet you tend to make quicker decisions, as a unit? But some of it is predicated on the star. Luka will never run a fast paced down-the-floor. offense. I mean, unless he is much skinnier.

Basically, yes.

[jcardstore]

And also the last part you added is just false, has nothing to do with his weight. He just plays very deliberately

[Nomad]

Okay, so you are saying the leader can affect pace of play and time between getting ball and making decisions.

I am trying to think back with Nesmith. He played two years under Tatum and three under Haliburton.

I do know on Pacers there is a night and day difference between when say Haliburton is leading the squad and TJ. Eye test, but Nembhard is also more deliberate and takes a few dribbles, slows down the ball handling speed.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Okay, so you are saying the leader can affect pace of play and time between getting ball and making decisions.

I am trying to think back with Nesmith. He played two years under Tatum and three under Haliburton.

I do know on Pacers there is a night and day difference between when say Haliburton is leading the squad and TJ. Eye test, but Nembhard is also more deliberate and takes a few dribbles, slows down the ball handling speed.

Yes, this is basic basketball.

Coaches have to be able to match their own style with the players on the team and that's what separates the great coaches from the lesser ones. Carlisle runs a spread offense that is well suited to ball handlers who can push, break down the defense, and pass the ball. He's had Kidd, Luka, and Haliburton. All 3 of those guys can do those things.

[Chryghst]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Yes, this is basic basketball.

Coaches have to be able to match their own style with the players on the team and that's what separates the great coaches from the lesser ones. Carlisle runs a spread offense that is well suited to ball handlers who can push, break down the defense, and pass the ball. He's had Kidd, Luka, and Haliburton. All 3 of those guys can do those things.

Carlisle pretty famously wanted to draft Haliburton when he was in Dallas too. Team passing stats are helpful here as well. Regular season Indiana was 2nd with 330.5 passes per game behind only Golden State (332.2). Celtics 24th with 274.7, just ahead of Oklahoma City (270.7).

Not only is it offensive scheme, but it’s basically the litmus test for whether you like egalitarian or heliocentric basketball. Bottom teams in passes feature heliocentric players and systems: Grizzlies (Ja), Bucks (Giannis), Celtics (Tatum/Brown), Thunder (Shai), Pistons (Cade), Clippers (Harden), Cavs (Mitchell), Mavs (Luka-previously), Rockets (Jalen Green). Those are the bottom 9. Those are always the players/systems the hobby loves. It’s kind of no surprise Indiana and Golden State are the top and I personally enjoy watching those teams the most—because that offensive philosophy is what I like the most.

Playoffs was an even wider spread. Indiana led with 318 passes per game; Oklahoma City was at 247.3; Boston completed just 238.2 passes per game. What’s so special about this Pacers team is they passed the ball 33% more than Boston, but had the same turnover percentage. Pretty cool.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Chryghst

Those are the bottom 9. Those are always the players/systems the hobby loves. It’s kind of no surprise Indiana and Golden State are the top and I personally enjoy watching those teams the most—because that offensive philosophy is what I like the most.

I was thinking that the latter half 2025 Pacers reminded me so much of that game in 2015 where I saw the Warriors en route to their first modern-day championship at the open air BBQ on the island. First game I had watched in 10 years. I remember I had just gone to the seamstress shop and given Lovely denim from the fabric shop to sew a backpack, jeans, and flute bag. Steph and Draymond really stood out that day. Just like Aaron and Ty did last four minutes against the Cavs that second-round game. That stretch Donovan still finds soul-crushing a month later.

That moment of thunderous realization when I realized the NBA is larger than Blowout or the hobby. I could go down to Los Angeles and sell second-tier Nesmith all day to fans at the sneaker shop as a sensible investment. They don't even care if he comes to LA. Like any good dealer, I just need a good rap.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Chryghst

it’s basically the litmus test for whether you like egalitarian or heliocentric basketball. Bottom teams in passes feature heliocentric players and systems: Grizzlies (Ja), Bucks (Giannis), Celtics (Tatum/Brown), Thunder (Shai), Pistons (Cade), Clippers (Harden), Cavs (Mitchell), Mavs (Luka-previously), Rockets (Jalen Green). Those are the bottom 9. Those are always the players/systems the hobby loves. It’s kind of no surprise Indiana and Golden State are the top and I personally enjoy watching those teams the most—because that offensive philosophy is what I like the most.

Pertaining to the Lakers, with Nesmith's having played in both types of outlier systems Hali v. Tatum, he would be the glue guy tying alphas Bron and Luka to an egalitarian play style that is also proven winning and could shift top to bottom on a dime.

[Chryghst]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Pertaining to the Lakers, with Nesmith's having played in both types of outlier systems Hali v. Tatum, he would be the glue guy tying alphas Bron and Luka to an egalitarian play style that is also proven winning and could shift top to bottom on a dime.

We saw Nesmith in a heliocentric system though. He spent 2 years in Boston. Going to the Lakers would be terrible for him. Luka will never play in an egalitarian system. His usage actually increased when he went to play with Lebron from 33.1% to 34.5%.

Haliburton’s usage is 21.6%. Nesmith is only Nesmith because of that.

[Nomad]

I think Luka would actually listen to Nesmith. Especially with Bron as a counterweight in team discussions. Just as Bronny will need guidance in becoming a McConnell. Haliburton firmly checked his ego at the door when they started winning.

Also, Nesmith has never been only that. You can go back to February 2022 when Smart went out and Nesmith basically reorganized the defense around principles that led to the Celtics' string of incredible runs.* With D White as the capable veteran understudy before AA's trade to Pacers.

This is why I think that Stimpf guy doesn't name anyone else for the spot. To him it's Nesmith or nobody. And yes you could argue that's partly down to the team-friendly contract and expiring timeline.


* Could dredge up old posts from Art of Falling if I have to.

[Nomad]

I just want to do a recap of the other thread on this for all you lazy facilitators. Learning a lot about the Lakers (homework in case Knee flies).

OkExchange7229
I doubt Indy is shopping him around in trades, but Nesmith is 100% a player you use the 2031 pick on.

Count_Sack_McGee
Yeah I don’t think it’s an issue of value…why tf would Indy trade him.

Supreme_God_Bunny
He shot 45% from 3 in that playoffs why tf would the pacers trade him for anybody on the lakers

NegativeCourage5461
Luka would benefit from a secondary superstar less...
This right here perfectly describes why an AR for a nesmith type is what the Lakers needed this off-season and why LeBron was so pissed that AR was considered untouchable.


brandoi
I promise you every team is going to avoid being in the second apron if they can. They are all second apron conscious. No team is going to be in the second apron for more than one season at a time. If the Cavs can't do anything in the weak East next season, I guarantee something's being blown up there.

Nomad
Who would you be looking at on Cleveland? Don't tell me Jarrett Allen.


yeezyhersh
if we can get him without giving up rui or Reaves... heed be perfect .. better than Wiggins and his inflated price.

Stebsy1234
I highly doubt the Pacers would be looking to move him. But yeah if they were we should 100% trade for him, we would probably need to trade Reaves or Rui for him since I doubt Maxey, Dalton and a pick gets it done.

Nomad
Keep in mind, Nesmith would be looking for a 3-year strong commitment. Rome wasn't built in a day.


Single-Purpose-7608
Jason Timpf was only saying that, hypothetically if Nesmith was shopped, the Lakers would probably still not do a trade because they're saving assets for Giannis. It was a critique of Pelinka and LA's strategy, not an actual realistic trade. There's no indication or reason for Indy to shop him at this point.

INT_MIN
because they're saving assets for Giannis.
Where is this sentiment coming from? Is there actually any reporting on the Lakers going for another star like Giannis?

Stebsy1234
None it’s purely speculative and pretty stupid tbh, it should be plane to see after the Giannis and Dame experiment didn’t pan out that he wouldn’t work well with Luka. Giannis wants the ball in his hands, he doesn’t want to just be a screen and roller.

whatshisface1892
It didn’t work out because Lillard didn’t have the speed or height to get by blitzes. The Giannis part of the pnr was fine. The Giannis/Middleton pnr was what got them a championship.

Nomad
Middleton is who gave Nesmith half his game.

TBC...