Why Are Cornerbacks so Worthless?

[Grid]

Originally Posted by tjforce

*Although I will say this: Good quarterbacks only hold value when the hope of being an all time top 10 guy is still there. Look at the prices of guys like Matt Ryan, Cam Netwon, Phillip Rivers, or a handful of other QBs that some of these young guys would love to end up doing as much as.

For sure! Thats the mystique. Everyone is waiting for the next Mahomes or Brady to cash in on a young player. Buy low and sell high. Its what drives the price of all young QBs. Its the "What if" factor.

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

yeah, QBs who don't win Super Bowls get moved down the collecting ladder as time goes by. The QBs you mentioned aren't going to ever be in the high dollar tier.

One thing about Newton. If you look at 2011 Rookies. Julio, Von Miller, JJ Watt, Sherman, Cam Jordan, and even Patrick Peterson could all make the HOF and Newton's RCs will likely still sell for more.

Exactly. The Matt Ryan, Cam Newton & Phillip Rivers of the world will still sell way better right now, then the Elite Tackles or D-Ends of their generation.

Jason Peters and Joe Staley were All Decade at tackle. Calais Campbell & Cam Jordan were the same at DE. Yet none of them will sell for Ryan/Newton/Rivers values.

[kipgen]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Agreed.

I am interested in seeing how this generation's running backs hold up.

A few Wide Receivers from the late 90's, 00's and 10's have actually done pretty well. A Larry Fitz card just sold for $63k. Randy Moss sells well. A few other guys might not do huge dollars, but their best stuff still sells.

This generation has 1, maybe 2 running backs that could end up with the both the stats and the flash to not get forgotten.

Derrick Henry is 19th in rushing all time and coming off a 1,900 yard season. A 1,300 yard season gets him into the Top 10 all time. He's also already 6th in rushing TDs and just 17 out of 3rd place. I feel like another monster season might get his name up there with the all time greats.

Another one is Barkley. He doesn't have the career numbers, but he has some mystique, a Super Bowl, and a big market. I think he's a little more of a long shot but it's something to watch.



*Although I will say this: Good quarterbacks only hold value when the hope of being an all time top 10 guy is still there. Look at the prices of guys like Matt Ryan, Cam Netwon, Phillip Rivers, or a handful of other QBs that some of these young guys would love to end up doing as much as.

Derrick Henry's trajectory will depend on the second half of his career. He had an AP-like first half but also just had his age 30 season and the season after that was the year AP just fell off completely. If he can keep running like has been for another five or six years he'll be up there. The thing is to have really good prices a la Barry Sanders he would have to surpass AP by a good margin (AP's biggest sale was his prizm 2012 black finite for $8955)

Saquon I would fade personally just because he's already an older running back (28) and he lost so many seasons to the giants and to injury. I place him more in the CMC camp of really impressive player for the time but lacking the health and longevity.

Wide receivers it's difficult at this point to see anybody overtaking Chase and JJ. Those guys feel so entrenched at the 1 and the 2 spot of wide receivers in cards and it doesn't seem like there are any big challengers at the moment (BTJ and Nabers are pretty good though so either of them could get up there in price). Surprisingly CeeDee Lamb isn't all that popular. He's not as good as Chase or JJ but skill-wise it's pretty close, people just haven't taken to his stuff as much.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by kipgen

Derrick Henry's trajectory will depend on the second half of his career. He had an AP-like first half but also just had his age 30 season and the season after that was the year AP just fell off completely. If he can keep running like has been for another five or six years he'll be up there. The thing is to have really good prices a la Barry Sanders he would have to surpass AP by a good margin (AP's biggest sale was his prizm 2012 black finite for $8955)

Saquon I would fade personally just because he's already an older running back (28) and he lost so many seasons to the giants and to injury. I place him more in the CMC camp of really impressive player for the time but lacking the health and longevity.

Wide receivers it's difficult at this point to see anybody overtaking Chase and JJ. Those guys feel so entrenched at the 1 and the 2 spot of wide receivers in cards and it doesn't seem like there are any big challengers at the moment (BTJ and Nabers are pretty good though so either of them could get up there in price). Surprisingly CeeDee Lamb isn't all that popular. He's not as good as Chase or JJ but skill-wise it's pretty close, people just haven't taken to his stuff as much.

It's still early, but I'm excited to see how the college careers and then rookie years of Jeremiah Smith and Ryan Williams turn out.

Both are two of the biggest WR prospects we've seen in a while and will be coming off careers at the two biggest schools in college football. Could be a lot of buzz around the position

[thesportslab]

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

How much did that set you back? On Ebay raw is $43 and non PSA brand 10s for less than $200. That's how much some random rookie RPA goes for before they even play half a season. So relatively worthless in comparison to modern cards.

Yes overall CBs are very worthless which is why I feel bad when I see people paying high prices for current players. As a hawks fan and long time collector of CBs/DBs I saw a bunch of people paying huge prices for Tariq Woolen and Devon Witherspoon rookies. Those guys are vaguely comparable to a Marcus Trufant, Dave Brown, Shawn Springs, etc....and those guys can be had for pennies.

Related to this, it’s crazy how quickly even RCs, and especially subsequent non-RC years, drop. I have a small PC for Surtain II I occasionally add to for a change of pace and it’s refreshing to get autos and nice cards for next to nothing compared to offensive guys.

[Seahawks fan]

Originally Posted by thesportslab

Related to this, it’s crazy how quickly even RCs, and especially subsequent non-RC years, drop. I have a small PC for Surtain II I occasionally add to for a change of pace and it’s refreshing to get autos and nice cards for next to nothing compared to offensive guys.

I think it's because there is such a huge amount of new collectors that don't know any better. Imagine you had no prior knowledge that you do now about the hobby and your fave college player who is hyped in the draft gets his 1st cards...your gonna buy and so are a bunch of other new collectors. But all the 1st sets are all college/unlicensed/low end licensed cards. They historically hold very little value. BUT THEN a set like Black comes out with 3 color RPAS in a pro uniform and those new collectors see a card that looks crazy to them,so they spend a boat load. Then as we know 50 more sets come out of the same crap and 5k+ rookie cards of your fave player. There is no way to keep up, the old sets are unwanted in leu of the new shiny set, and a new draft class comes along and the previous draft class is old news/dead hype. By the end the new collector either wises up and only buys top brands/actual rare cards. Or they say this is dumb and leave the hobby. I don't even think most stick around for the after draft off season which is one of the reasons those rookie cards are so cheap right now.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

I think it's because there is such a huge amount of new collectors that don't know any better. Imagine you had no prior knowledge that you do now about the hobby and your fave college player who is hyped in the draft gets his 1st cards...your gonna buy and so are a bunch of other new collectors. But all the 1st sets are all college/unlicensed/low end licensed cards. They historically hold very little value. BUT THEN a set like Black comes out with 3 color RPAS in a pro uniform and those new collectors see a card that looks crazy to them,so they spend a boat load. Then as we know 50 more sets come out of the same crap and 5k+ rookie cards of your fave player. There is no way to keep up, the old sets are unwanted in leu of the new shiny set, and a new draft class comes along and the previous draft class is old news/dead hype. By the end the new collector either wises up and only buys top brands/actual rare cards. Or they say this is dumb and leave the hobby. I don't even think most stick around for the after draft off season which is one of the reasons those rookie cards are so cheap right now.

Don't forget about the element of having certain people hype up cards in order to sell them to these new folks.

-Panini wants to hype up the next big thing to sell cases
-Breaker and shops want to hype up the next big thing to sell spots and boxes
-Flippers want to hype up the next big thing to sell cards
-And then the next year the whole cycle starts over again.

So imagine being new and all your seeing is all of these folks telling you to buy the same guy.

[sheetskout]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

They get burned more times than not.

This is.....not true.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Don't forget about the element of having certain people hype up cards in order to sell them to these new folks.

-Panini wants to hype up the next big thing to sell cases
-Breaker and shops want to hype up the next big thing to sell spots and boxes
-Flippers want to hype up the next big thing to sell cards
-And then the next year the whole cycle starts over again.

So imagine being new and all your seeing is all of these folks telling you to buy the same guy.

Hello 2020-2022 bubble!

[RustyDawg37]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Some Edge rushers get love.

Key Myles Garrett cards regularly sell for over $1k. It's a little tough because he has no autogrpahs, but his key golds sell well

He has pack pulled autos now

[Zauron]

Originally Posted by asymmetricalbet

Why? It’s one of the most important positions especially in the modern game. But literally you can’t give them away. Whether they are the best now or historical legends. Champ Bailey has 9 cards that have ever sold for more than a grand. And when I say more than a grand, I also mean less than 1.5k. Darelle Revis, same situation.

As a prime Champ collector, you should've seen his prices before the COVID spike in 2020/2021.

I could've had a dual 1/1 shield patch for $180, same card sold for over $1,000 or close to it.

Also I own his 1/1 Flair Showcase rookie, and I was offered good money but nothing super crazy.

I got annoyed with Panini though pumping into so many products of late and with ugly sticker autos I stopped caring about the new stuff so much. I also got annoyed with the 2020 bump that I couldn't get his stuff relatively cheap anymore. Oh well

[YeahBuddy]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

yeah, QBs who don't win Super Bowls get moved down the collecting ladder as time goes by. The QBs you mentioned aren't going to ever be in the high dollar tier.

One thing about Newton. If you look at 2011 Rookies. Julio, Von Miller, JJ Watt, Sherman, Cam Jordan, and even Patrick Peterson could all make the HOF and Newton's RCs will likely still sell for more.

Watt sells well. Texans fans like myself have only two legends. Watt & AJ, and Watt is also beloved by a lot of folks not even Texans fans and esp Wisconsin fans.

[McDuck]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

Pretty much all positions except QB are undervalued. It's always been that way in the football hobby. But if you're into CBs, that just means more buying power for you.

Yep, this is the start and the end of it. Nothing new here.

QBs are the face of the game, they have the ball in their hands every for nearly all offensive play, they win MVP, they make the game-winning play typically, they're in the post game interviews. Even casual fans know the QB's name, they sell the most jerseys, they're in the endorsements and on the billboards... all that.

Collect any other position for your PC and for fun. As said, they'll be much cheaper.

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

It's defense.

Why would you believe modern cornerbacks are supposed to valued over $1000? Who or what set that precedent?

There are two CB positions on the field on every down and really there are more when you include defensive backs in nickel and dime packages. The NFL is saturated with them.

So the only real standouts in the hobby are going to be those that play at the All-Pro level. Even then, how long will that last in today's NFL? Very few reach an elite level and only reach it for a short period. ....

Agree.

All positions affect the game, all get paid if they play well for their NFL teams. But the defense guys will seldom be the player of the day... much less year. Ditto for the non-QB offense guys - esp OL. They're just not visible enough to move the needle on card values or volumes.

[McDuck]

Originally Posted by tjforce

It's still early, but I'm excited to see how the college careers and then rookie years of Jeremiah Smith and Ryan Williams turn out.

Both are two of the biggest WR prospects we've seen in a while and will be coming off careers at the two biggest schools in college football. Could be a lot of buzz around the position

There will be buzz. They are elite prospects. I agree.

I think there is flip profit there, but long term... very doubtful.

We have to follow the money (QBs) when it comes to cards. Look at the history. It takes a rare combo of elite talent and intriguing personality for a non-QB to have even decent long term card value (Randy Moss, LTaylor, Deion, etc). The best thing to do with most non-QB cards is to dump them asap, especially rookies. Not only do they lose long term value, they get hurt more also. Saquon carreer is top RB now, but he was done soon after he started for HOF, GOAT, etc hopes. The most valued and popular players for football cards are 95% qb historically. Sad but true.

There will be very rare non-QB exceptions (mostly WRs, a few RBs, very rare GOAT type defense), but QBs will always have most of the sales volume and value. Even the very popular guys like Emmitt or Deion sell very tiny fractions of what Brady or even Favre does. It's been that way a long while.

Basically, look at the BEST case scenerios... even if (huge IF) Bijan Robinson becomes LTomlinson or Justin Jefferson becomes Marvin Harrison Sr career, those retired HOF non-QB guy cards are still worth very little. And that's a best case career scenario.

But yeah, that certainly doesn't mean people won't be able to flip Malik Nabers and Marv Jr or AJeanty or those upcoming WR RC cards in the next few years to ppl hoping they're going to be the next JJefferson and JChase or Derrick Henry... yet not realize that even hitting that dream career of health + stats STILL result means little for volume and values long term as they are non-QBs.

It'd be like NBA every having centers or non-scoring PGs be valued like SG and SFs who are among the scoring leaders. They're good players, they get paid... but for hobby, simply won't happen that they carry value/volume of the well-known and face-of-league guys.

[meandsharon11]

They rarely directly contribute to points. Look at offensive linemen, they have the least value in the hobby for the same reason. People see highlights and points, and that’s what they buy off of.

[Stifle]

I’ll just keep my rare Charles Woodson rookies before giving them up for the work I had to do to locate them. Calling roughly every LCS that was listed in the Beckett as well as countless others. Sending want list’s out to numerous shops.

Not certain what Ty Law rare cards go for but the ones I have are not being let loose for $150. I spent good money on the Prince Amakamura 1/1 without hesitation. Ronnie Lott played much of his career as a CB, but didn’t have the low numbered parallels, lack of auto’s, game used, etc. Didn’t Devin Hester start out as a CB for his rookie cards? I would lay claim that a Hester rookie should be a CB card. Darrell Green has some decent cards that may not go for a grand but should bring a nice return.

[Slette]

Let me guess, this was slyguy again?

Originally Posted by McDuck

There will be buzz. They are elite prospects. I agree.

I think there is flip profit there, but long term... very doubtful.

We have to follow the money (QBs) when it comes to cards. Look at the history. It takes a rare combo of elite talent and intriguing personality for a non-QB to have even decent long term card value (Randy Moss, LTaylor, Deion, etc). The best thing to do with most non-QB cards is to dump them asap, especially rookies. Not only do they lose long term value, they get hurt more also. Saquon carreer is top RB now, but he was done soon after he started for HOF, GOAT, etc hopes. The most valued and popular players for football cards are 95% qb historically. Sad but true.

There will be very rare non-QB exceptions (mostly WRs, a few RBs, very rare GOAT type defense), but QBs will always have most of the sales volume and value. Even the very popular guys like Emmitt or Deion sell very tiny fractions of what Brady or even Favre does. It's been that way a long while.

Basically, look at the BEST case scenerios... even if (huge IF) Bijan Robinson becomes LTomlinson or Justin Jefferson becomes Marvin Harrison Sr career, those retired HOF non-QB guy cards are still worth very little. And that's a best case career scenario.

But yeah, that certainly doesn't mean people won't be able to flip Malik Nabers and Marv Jr or AJeanty or those upcoming WR RC cards in the next few years to ppl hoping they're going to be the next JJefferson and JChase or Derrick Henry... yet not realize that even hitting that dream career of health + stats STILL result means little for volume and values long term as they are non-QBs.

It'd be like NBA every having centers or non-scoring PGs be valued like SG and SFs who are among the scoring leaders. They're good players, they get paid... but for hobby, simply won't happen that they carry value/volume of the well-known and face-of-league guys.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by Slette

Let me guess, this was slyguy again?

Mayyybe.

[Stifle]

Is this member hoping to sway others to let loose some rare cards of cornerbacks that they are in search of by hoping to low ball the position and the value of what collectors are holding?