The Official 2025 NBA Finals Thread: OKC Thunder vs Indiana Pacers

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Just makes for bad basketball. I literally consider this the worst playoffs I've ever watched, and went as far as deciding that I was going to sell off my entire basketball collection (minus a few PC items) if the Pacers won. Even with the OKC win, I think the 2020's will be looked at as a very down era of NBA, the worst since before Magic/Bird.

that is so wild. I mean this is the best finals I can remember. Granted, only been watching them since 2021.

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Disagree...



-Taunting like you've done something (which you haven't)

-Sucker punching guys in the stomach mid play

-Having an entire game plan around "where are going to foul on every play because the refs wont call it", which I respect for being effective, but just doesn't make for very entertaining basketball.



Just makes for bad basketball. I literally consider this the worst playoffs I've ever watched, and went as far as deciding that I was going to sell off my entire basketball collection (minus a few PC items) if the Pacers won. Even with the OKC win, I think the 2020's will be looked at as a very down era of NBA, the worst since before Magic/Bird.

Bro how much did you lose on the Cavs? So spicy! Like Nomad says, bet with your Nesmith not above it.

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[tjforce]

Originally Posted by hxcmilkshake

Bro how much did you lose on the Cavs? So spicy! Like Nomad says, bet with your Nesmith not above it.

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I don't bet on basketball, or sports in general...

but look at the NBA since the Warriors dynasty ended (which a blown out Achilles, nonetheless):

-You haven't had a repeat NBA champion.
-You haven't had a star break through to cultural relevancy
-Ratings are in the tank.

That last piece is important. Overall ratings were the worst since 2007, and that was one of the most mis-matched 4 games sweeps in NBA history. Game 7 yesterday got decent ratings (for NBA standards), but 22.5 Million MORE people tuned into watch Copper Rush vs Drew Lock on Thanksgiving than watched Game 7.

If you added up the ratings from all 7 games and acted like no one person watched the more than 1 game... that they were all unique viewers, then there were still 55 Million less viewers than the Super Bowl.

"So yeah, the NFL is a runaway freight train the NBA shouldn't expect to keep up with so what?".... The NBA Finals got blown out of the water by the World Series, which averaged 15.1MM viewers to the NBA's 10.2MM series average. Yes, 50% more people watched the World Series than the NBA Finals. And as much as I'd like to say "Well it's just because there were 2 small market teams".... Last year was Boston vs Dallas, and only 11.3MM tuned in.

The NBA has a problem with it's product right now and it's hard to ignore.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by tjforce

-You haven't had a repeat NBA champion.
-You haven't had a star break through to cultural relevancy
-Ratings are in the tank.

That last piece is important. Overall ratings were the worst since 2007, and that was one of the most mis-matched 4 games sweeps in NBA history. Game 7 yesterday got decent ratings...

Yeah but both teams are super deep, young, and positioned to go far for a couple years or more... and now fans know the players. Just two years ago, Pacers had one nationally televised game. I'm sure OKC was something similar.

Much rather have this than veteran, free agent dominant Bucks, Nugs, or Celtics. At least you have a chance to build something fresh and marketable to a new generation. And eventually some of these players will be leaders on coast teams.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Yeah but both teams are super deep, young, and positioned to go far for a couple years or more... and now fans know the players. Just two years ago, Pacers had one nationally televised game. I'm sure OKC was something similar.

Much rather have this than veteran, free agent dominant Bucks, Nugs, or Celtics. At least you have a chance to build something fresh and marketable to a new generation. And eventually some of these players will be leaders on coast teams.

But the Pacers aren't marketable (and Hali won't be playing for 16 months, and will probably be a step slower when he does), and have you seen the social media reaction to OKC? People are taking the bait on SGA and the rest of the squad being foul baiters and there is a lot of animosity towards them already.

And again... 1 year ago people were talking about a Celtics dynasty. That's done. Before that people were speculating on how the Nuggets would contend for more titles. They haven't made it back.

You need a real hero, or you need a real villain. LeBron, Curry, Brady, Mahomes... those guys were/are the most loved yet the most hated athletes on the planet, and it led to great eras of the sport. Few care about SGA. The Pacers will be the most forgotten Finals losers of this decade. The day after the NBA finals and the biggest story I see around the social media world is old Kevin Durant being traded to Houston, and that's just sad.

[Chryghst]

Originally Posted by Nomad

that is so wild. I mean this is the best finals I can remember. Granted, only been watching them since 2021.

Best finals and playoffs in years. No offense to OP, but people just like to complain. This playoffs had so much variety, incredible strategy and talent. Had amazing first round series like Nuggets/Clippers or Knicks/Pistons which is atypical, tons of comebacks and game to game adjustments. The level of play was ridiculously high for months. Probably 6 different teams had a chance to win it all.

Yeah, there could be tweaks to make it better. But if you aren’t enjoying it then turn it off and stop detracting from other people’s enjoyment of the sport. NBA made a decision the NFL/MLB did not—to market individual players over teams. The consequence of this is people check out when those players aren’t playing, and fans complain too much. This could be the only time Oklahoma City and Indiana make the finals for the next 50 years. Just enjoy it for what it is instead of complaining about what it isn’t. Life’s too short.

Also ESPN isn’t helping this culture by putting a guy on who complains about everything all the time. OKC and IND just put on a tremendous show for all of us for almost 3 weeks and left everything out there—I’m just grateful for it and sad we didn’t get a classic game 7 to finish it off.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by tjforce

You need a real hero, or you need a real villain. LeBron, Curry, Brady, Mahomes... those guys were/are the most loved yet the most hated athletes on the planet, and it led to great eras of the sport. Few care about SGA. The Pacers will be the most forgotten Finals losers of this decade. The day after the NBA finals and the biggest story I see around the social media world is old Kevin Durant being traded to Houston, and that's just sad.

I see a lot of Pacers fans like Furphy. I like his defense, trained by the best. A sniper with length. Surprising physicality. He is definitely marketable, especially internationally ala Luka (from Australia). Interested to see if he eases into the Tyrese role.

Pacers are such a system team, I think he does.

[Chryghst]

Originally Posted by tjforce

But the Pacers aren't marketable (and Hali won't be playing for 16 months, and will probably be a step slower when he does), and have you seen the social media reaction to OKC? People are taking the bait on SGA and the rest of the squad being foul baiters and there is a lot of animosity towards them already.

And again... 1 year ago people were talking about a Celtics dynasty. That's done. Before that people were speculating on how the Nuggets would contend for more titles. They haven't made it back.

You need a real hero, or you need a real villain. LeBron, Curry, Brady, Mahomes... those guys were/are the most loved yet the most hated athletes on the planet, and it led to great eras of the sport. Few care about SGA. The Pacers will be the most forgotten Finals losers of this decade. The day after the NBA finals and the biggest story I see around the social media world is old Kevin Durant being traded to Houston, and that's just sad.

People hated the Warriors when they got KD. People hated the Heatles. People transitioning from loving this Thunder team 2 years ago when they were upstart play-in darlings to hating them now is *part* of their progression into dynastic relevance. Every dominant team goes through it—like the Patriots or Chiefs.

Celtics were not a dynasty—the ages didn’t make sense for that with Horford, Jrue, Porzingis. They had a narrow two year window before the new CBA mandated selling off parts, and they lost the 2nd year of it to injury/Knicks. Everyone knew the Celtics weren’t keeping this core together for next year unless perhaps they won the championship this year.

I agree with you the player movement obsession is unhealthy and NBA plays into that superficial drama element too much. But these things are cyclical. Tennis is going through this now too. The Federer/Nadal/Djokovic era is over and although this Alcaraz kid is meant to be good, a lot of people like myself probably left the sport with those guys. The new generation has to accumulate their own following and pull people back in. The NBA is losing Lebron/Curry/KD who carried the league for the last decade+. Give it time to see what happens next.

Also, Curry pulled people in during his first Davidson tournament run, which was remarkably similar to this Pacers run. Curry was not what he is now when the Warriors won their first championship. These things take time.

[slyguy]

Originally Posted by tjforce

... have you seen the social media reaction to OKC? People are taking the bait on SGA and the rest of the squad being foul baiters and there is a lot of animosity towards them already...

Yeah, this has been going on since Grizz series, increased Nugs series .... and definitely common knowledge since the Wolves series.

I am a very casual NBA fan since the Bad Boys vs Showtime Lakers vs Bulls days of my youth (I probably couldn't even name one player on each pro BBall team anymore), but I will say I agree: the league has a huge superstar problem. Even the pathetic WNBA almost has more superstar recognition than NBA. The only ones I think are entertaining in present day NBA are Ant (hero/highlights) and Trae Young (heel).

The rest are just not good as stars or face-of-the-league types...
Curry, Durant, LeBron, Butler, others = washed
Jokic, SGA, Wemby, Brunson, ADavis = boring
Embied, Tatum, Haliburton = hurt
Flagg, Cade, Doncic, Giannis, DMitch, DFox = possible (but most likely would've been more popular by now)

The free agency and trading has really ruined it (for me). That is not to say other sports don't do this, but NBA has far too many in-season moves... hard to even follow casually. Between that and lack of superstar power, I can't get into it. Jmo.

[SK40]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Disagree...

-Taunting like you've done something (which you haven't)
-Sucker punching guys in the stomach mid play
-Having an entire game plan around "where are going to foul on every play because the refs wont call it", which I respect for being effective, but just doesn't make for very entertaining basketball.

Just makes for bad basketball. I literally consider this the worst playoffs I've ever watched, and went as far as deciding that I was going to sell off my entire basketball collection (minus a few PC items) if the Pacers won. Even with the OKC win, I think the 2020's will be looked at as a very down era of NBA, the worst since before Magic/Bird.

[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by Chryghst

People hated the Warriors when they got KD. People hated the Heatles. People transitioning from loving this Thunder team 2 years ago when they were upstart play-in darlings to hating them now is *part* of their progression into dynastic relevance. Every dominant team goes through it—like the Patriots or Chiefs.

Celtics were not a dynasty—the ages didn’t make sense for that with Horford, Jrue, Porzingis. They had a narrow two year window before the new CBA mandated selling off parts, and they lost the 2nd year of it to injury/Knicks. Everyone knew the Celtics weren’t keeping this core together for next year unless perhaps they won the championship this year.

I agree with you the player movement obsession is unhealthy and NBA plays into that superficial drama element too much. But these things are cyclical. Tennis is going through this now too. The Federer/Nadal/Djokovic era is over and although this Alcaraz kid is meant to be good, a lot of people like myself probably left the sport with those guys. The new generation has to accumulate their own following and pull people back in. The NBA is losing Lebron/Curry/KD who carried the league for the last decade+. Give it time to see what happens next.

Agree with pretty much all this.

We’re in transition and I think you legitimately have a team with a chance to build a dynasty. SGA will be hard to ignore if he keeps contending for hardware.

Give it time, the NBA will also figure out who/what to market. It will start to reveal itself.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...ft_season.html

Again, the foul baiting thing is incredibly overblown. For reference, these are the most free throws attempted by a player in a single NBA season. You can infer whatever you want from it.

Ball dominant guards who drive are going to get fouled, big men are going to get fouled, guys who camp out at the perimeter and jack tons of threes (most of the NBA now) aren’t going to get fouled as often.


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[cdub6238]

Originally Posted by Nomad

I see a lot of Pacers fans like Furphy. I like his defense, trained by the best. A sniper with length. Surprising physicality. He is definitely marketable, especially internationally ala Luka (from Australia). Interested to see if he eases into the Tyrese role.

Pacers are such a system team, I think he does.

A 6 ft 9 SG that averaged 9/5/1 in NCAA...is going to take the Tyrese role...

Some of your takes man I swear

[slyguy]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

...Give it time, the NBA will also figure out who/what to market. It will start to reveal itself...

They had better hope to hell that Cade or Flagg starts to get very fun and good VERY fast.

NFL had this issue with Brady, Matt Ryan, Peyton Rodgers, Brees, BBen, etc ageing and retiring.
Andrew Luck and Cam Newton never fully panned out.
Luckily Mahomes showed up fast as the new GOAT, and Burrow and Allen were pretty good too.

[Chryghst]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

Agree with pretty much all this.

We’re in transition and I think you legitimately have a team with a chance to build a dynasty. SGA will be hard to ignore if he keeps contending for hardware.

Give it time, the NBA will also figure out who/what to market. It will start to reveal itself.


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Yes and hopefully with less constant talk about it on the main networks. Curry vs Chris Paul was a legitimate debate for a long time which we revisited once or twice a year. Like Akphillips86 said, it revealed itself over time. We don’t need to ask the question after every half of basketball. In a few years we’ll all know.

I think a legitimate criticism of the new CBA/player empowerment era is that there’s so much player movement that’s the emotional investment into teams isn’t as strong when half the roster changes every year.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by slyguy

Yeah, this has been going on since Grizz series, increased Nugs series .... and definitely common knowledge since the Wolves series.

I am a very casual NBA fan since the Bad Boys vs Showtime Lakers vs Bulls days of my youth (I probably couldn't even name one player on each pro BBall team anymore), but I will say I agree: the league has a huge superstar problem. Even the pathetic WNBA almost has more superstar recognition than NBA. The only ones I think are entertaining in present day NBA are Ant (hero/highlights) and Trae Young (heel).

The rest are just not good as stars or face-of-the-league types...
Curry, Durant, LeBron, Butler, others = washed
Jokic, SGA, Wemby, Brunson, ADavis = boring
Embied, Tatum, Haliburton = hurt
Flagg, Cade, Doncic, Giannis, DMitch, DFox = possible (but most likely would've been more popular by now)

The free agency and trading has really ruined it (for me). That is not to say other sports don't do this, but NBA has far too many in-season moves... hard to even follow casually. Between that and lack of superstar power, I can't get into it. Jmo.

Thank You...

Look at the super stars in the other sports:

NFL has Mahomes, and about 4-5 other QBs waiting to take his place if he slips up.

MLB has it's two biggest stars since prime Jeter was making his way down red carpets with World Series trophies in hand.

The NBA's 3 biggest stars (not best players, biggest stars) are 36, 37, and 40 years old. They were a combined 1-2 in the playoffs this year.

The league's best hope is that Wemby can stay healthy and just become the most dominant big since Kareem, or that the Lakers new ownership group just finds a way to circumvent the salary cap and become a Luka led Evil Empire. Which takes us right back to "As soon as Luka starts winning championships".

[Chryghst]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

Again, the foul baiting thing is incredibly overblown. For reference, these are the most free throws attempted by a player in a single NBA season. You can infer whatever you want from it.

Ball dominant guards who drive are going to get fouled, big men are going to get fouled, guys who camp out at the perimeter and jack tons of threes (most of the NBA now) aren’t going to get fouled as often.

Big pet peeve when people quote total fouls without relation to average shot distance. Like ‘Team A shot x fouls and Team B shot x-10 so it’s rigged’. Shot distribution is the main contributor to this like you said. That said, I think people are especially critical of OKC because of how physical their defense is. It’s a little jarring to the eye to see Shai or Dort draped over someone on defense to getting a touch foul within a 10-20 second span. Shai drew that pivotal foul on Nesmith in G4 (with hand on shoulder) but no call when he did the same to Mathurin in G7.

I think being unpredictable with movements is a skill and that draws contact. I also wish NBA would change freedom of movement rules so foul is called on the initiator of contact rather than offensive player having a right to space unless the defensive player is in set position before they get there.

But people’s memories are also strange, because Kobe had multiple seasons of 10+ FTA.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Chryghst

Yes and hopefully with less constant talk about it on the main networks. Curry vs Chris Paul was a legitimate debate for a long time which we revisited once or twice a year. Like Akphillips86 said, it revealed itself over time. We don’t need to ask the question after every half of basketball. In a few years we’ll all know.

I think a legitimate criticism of the new CBA/player empowerment era is that there’s so much player movement that’s the emotional investment into teams isn’t as strong when half the roster changes every year.

But that's the problem that we've run into...

It's revealed itself over time that Giannis is just not going to take that leap into crossover superstardom.

It's revealed itself over time that Jokic is just not going to become some player that people love to watch.

It's revealed itself over time that Tatum just can't take that next step and become a put himself over as the best player on the planet

It's revealed itself over time that Zion was just a bust. Same with Ja.

It's revealed itself over time that Luka is just missing a gear to translate his offensive game to an MVP level all around game.

So pardon me if I'm not convinced that SGA is going to become bigger than the game the way guys like LeBron, Kobe, and Curry did.

[tjforce]

As for the foulbaiting part..

At least some of it is people falling into the social media rage bait that has ahold of so many NFL fans when they see calls 4 second clips of questionable calls that go the Kansas City Chiefs way, but conveniently ignore the way it evens itself out over time. It's an ugly thing that's happening.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by cdub6238

A 6 ft 9 SG that averaged 9/5/1 in NCAA...is going to take the Tyrese role...

Some of your takes man I swear

Who has been understudying with Tyrese and many other Pacers players past year. And hitting milestones.

[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Thank You...

Look at the super stars in the other sports:

NFL has Mahomes, and about 4-5 other QBs waiting to take his place if he slips up.

MLB has it's two biggest stars since prime Jeter was making his way down red carpets with World Series trophies in hand.

The NBA's 3 biggest stars (not best players, biggest stars) are 36, 37, and 40 years old. They were a combined 1-2 in the playoffs this year.

The league's best hope is that Wemby can stay healthy and just become the most dominant big since Kareem, or that the Lakers new ownership group just finds a way to circumvent the salary cap and become a Luka led Evil Empire. Which takes us right back to "As soon as Luka starts winning championships".

NBA definitely wanted/wants Luka to take the crown, but yea LA needs some big roster moves. Wemby could also be a huge star with some health.

I wouldn’t count out SGA, they have just made no real moves to market him. He’s going to be around a while and he’s on a young squad poised to do some damage. And I don’t think he’s going to be MJ/LeBron/Kobe etc., he just hasn’t been the beneficiary of the hype machine because he wasn’t the anointed one. Nobody expected him to be this good.


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[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by tjforce

As for the foulbaiting part..

At least some of it is people falling into the social media rage bait that has ahold of so many NFL fans when they see calls 4 second clips of questionable calls that go the Kansas City Chiefs way, but conveniently ignore the way it evens itself out over time. It's an ugly thing that's happening.

This is absolutely true.


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[ninjacookies]

Far too early to draw conclusions. OKC is the youngest team in the league and second youngest post ABA champions in league history only behind the Trailblazers.

They also have a haul of 13 first rounders at their disposal over the next 7 years. Zero free agents this offseason.

When Golden State and KC won their first titles, I'm sure there was the same shared skepticism about whether it was real or sustainable.

At the very least, the Thunder have all the pieces in place and extraneous advantages at their disposal to position themselves to be at the top for the near term. But as the number 0's have shown, anything can happen that can quickly derail those plans.


The Finals were fine. Very entertaining. Ratings and the actual quality of these Finals shouldn't be conflated. They're small market teams with small fanbases so of course ratings would be low regardless of the actual product.

At least we got to temporarily silence the 'NBA's fake' InfoWars theorists, as I'm sure it was far from Silver's wet dream for Indy/OKC to highlight the biggest stage.

[drobfan8]

Tjforce and gomiago are like the bitter ex girlfriends at this point.

Stop it. Get some help. Work on yourselves.

Do better

[Nomad]

When I am agreeing with Drob8 something wak...

[OKC Thunder fan]

I have to say something on Haliburton's injury.

There's a lot of bad commentary going on by NBA pundits about what happened here. A bunch of crap like "nobody saw this coming" or "the risk was minimal."

That's a load of crap.

Following a grade 1 calf strain, elite athletes who rely on explosive starts, changing direction, push off starts are at greater than 50% chance of achilles tears.

We're not talking about golfers here, we're talking sprinters, basketball players, football players. These guys are at HIGH risk of an achilles tear on a grade 1 strain.

Now I'm sure the Pacers medical team knows this. Based on Haliburton's reaction he acts like he knew this was a strong possibility. And if he chooses to take that risk, then that's fine, and it's his choice.

But we need to end this narrative that tearing the achilles was something that nobody could have seen coming.