Hall of Fame changes criteria (again)

[VinnyH]

I wonder if Milli Vanilli will ever get into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. Yeah, they cheated but you could dance to their music.
Hmmm,
Vinny

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by mfw13

It's utter hypocrisy for the HOF to keep steroid users out when one of these same "Veterans Committees" elected Bud Selig, the commissioner who presided over the steroid era and tacitly condoned their usage because of all the positive publicity McGwire & Sosa brought the game in 1998.

100%

The moment he was elected should've opened the flood gates for all players.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by mfw13

It's utter hypocrisy for the HOF to keep steroid users out when one of these same "Veterans Committees" elected Bud Selig, the commissioner who presided over the steroid era and tacitly condoned their usage because of all the positive publicity McGwire & Sosa brought the game in 1998.

That's a great point. Plus, as long as people like Ortiz, Bagwell, and Pudge are in, there really isn't a good reason in keeping Bonds and Clemens out.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

That's a great point. Plus, as long as people like Ortiz, Bagwell, and Pudge are in, there really isn't a good reason in keeping Bonds and Clemens out.

Apparently, steroids are fine if they make a mediocre player into a HOFer. But they really anger people when they make a HOFer into a better HOFer. :rollseyes:

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by rats60

No, this is the same committee that elected Rick Ferrell because the head of the HOF asked committee members to vote for him so he didn't receive 0 votes. These elections don't happen in a vaccuum. If a player doesn't receive 5 votes the first time on the ballot, committee members will know it. When they come up again, members know that if they don't vote for them, they won't ever get in.

If a player can't get more than 25% multiple times, maybe they don't belong in the HOF. Why should certain players get rejected over and over again while others never get a chance with the Veterans Committee? This will keep ballots from being stale with the same rejects. It is good to give more players an opportunity at election from their fellow players.

If only it were that simple. There are 16 voters on the Contemporary Era Committee. Each voter has only 3 maximum votes, totaling 48 possible votes. 8 candidates are eligible each time. If all or most of the candidates are deserving, it's very unlikely all candidates will receive the requisite 5 votes needed to be considered in the future.

This rule change is clearly intended to reduce the pool of candidates over time. It seems specifically targeted toward Bonds and Clemens, who each received less than 4 votes in their first time being voted on by the Contemporary Era Committee.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

That's a great point. Plus, as long as people like Ortiz, Bagwell, and Pudge are in, there really isn't a good reason in keeping Bonds and Clemens out.

Where’s there any kind of proof with Bagwell?

Bonds and Clemens both also likely fail the character clause even if you toss the PEDs. Clemens may or may not have had an affair with a teenaged Mindy McCready while Bonds had multiple DV allegations.

[Centauri3]

Man, I have always been confident the veterans committee would fix the injustice and put Kenny Lofton I in the Hall. I was certain. Now with this new rule it seems like he might get shafted again.

[JWBlue]

Bonds and Clemens will eventually get it. I would almost bet my life on it.

Everyone in here knows it but likes to argue about it.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

Bonds and Clemens will eventually get it. I would almost bet my life on it.

[Handsome Wes]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

Bonds and Clemens will eventually get it. I would almost bet my life on it.

Everyone in here knows it but likes to argue about it.

Sadly, this is not the Football Hall of Fame, where on - and off - field behavior is laughed away (and no one cares). Bonds, and Clemens, won't get in because A) baseball feels the need to be sanctimonious, B) perhaps most egregiously, those two rubbed too many shoulders the wrong way.

In football you can help murder a guy, but as long as you're buddy-buddy with ESPN hosts, you'll get a Canton bust and get invites to be on "Dancing with the Stars"

[ottobord]

So does this new rule doom a player that fails on the ballot but later has a successful managerial career? For example Torrre. They can't be reconsidered?

[Handsome Wes]

Originally Posted by ottobord

So does this new rule doom a player that fails on the ballot but later has a successful managerial career? For example Torrre. They can't be reconsidered?

I would have to imagine that a player such as Torre would be classified as a managerial candidate, and as such, get a second chance.

What I don't get is why baseball players are considered on either a managerial basis OR a playing career one - as opposed to taking both into consideration.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Where’s there any kind of proof with Bagwell?

Bonds and Clemens both also likely fail the character clause even if you toss the PEDs. Clemens may or may not have had an affair with a teenaged Mindy McCready while Bonds had multiple DV allegations.

There's no proof with bagwell just a lot of suspicion. He just lifted weights constantly and turned into Scott Steiner. People forget there were so many stories about the workout regiment guys would have and the idiot writers just marveled at it rather than being real reporters and showing some skepticism like "how come these guys are able to workout 8hrs a day everyday"

[corndog]

Originally Posted by VinnyH

I wonder if Milli Vanilli will ever get into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. Yeah, they cheated but you could dance to their music.
Hmmm,
Vinny

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by corndog

Girl, You Know It's True...still a banger.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by JRX

There's no proof with bagwell just a lot of suspicion. He just lifted weights constantly and turned into Scott Steiner. People forget there were so many stories about the workout regiment guys would have and the idiot writers just marveled at it rather than being real reporters and showing some skepticism like "how come these guys are able to workout 8hrs a day everyday"

But he stayed the same size for the remainder of his career and is still the same size today. It’s not like he turned into a mutant freak like Bonds and then shriveled up like a raisin when he got off the sauce.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

But he stayed the same size for the remainder of his career and is still the same size today. It’s not like he turned into a mutant freak like Bonds and then shriveled up like a raisin when he got off the sauce.

Working in his favor, he did fall apart at 36

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by JRX

Working in his favor, he did fall apart at 36

I think it’s crazy he somehow only made 4 All-Star teams.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

But he stayed the same size for the remainder of his career and is still the same size today.

Uh, you might want to look at him his rookie season compared to '94 and the late 90s. Yes, he didn't come into the league skinny, but he bulked up quite a bit.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Uh, you might want to look at him his rookie season compared to '94 and the late 90s. Yes, he didn't come into the league skinny, but he bulked up quite a bit.

That’s what I meant dumb dumb. Once he bulked up he remained that same size to this day. He didn’t shrivel up like a 80 year old like Bonds did.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

That’s what I meant dumb dumb. Once he bulked up he remained that same size to this day. He didn’t shrivel up like a 80 year old like Bonds did.

That really doesn't mean anything. It could just mean he's still on stuff like TRT.

[Retired hobbist]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

But he stayed the same size for the remainder of his career and is still the same size today. It’s not like he turned into a mutant freak like Bonds and then shriveled up like a raisin when he got off the sauce.

Huh?

He shrank a ton, similar to how juicer's shrink when he they get off gear. Look at what he looked like at his induction press conference. He looked like he either never lifted or was sick and as far as I know he wasn't sick...

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by Retired hobbist

Huh?

He shrank a ton, similar to how juicer's shrink when he they get off gear. Look at what he looked like at his induction press conference. He looked like he either never lifted or was sick and as far as I know he wasn't sick...

I’m not seeing it, doesn’t look sick to me.



Bonds on the other hand probably lost over 100 pounds.

[Retired hobbist]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

I’m not seeing it, doesn’t look sick to me.



Bonds on the other hand probably lost over 100 pounds.

I'm surprised Bonds got close to his original physique. Usually when guys dope they look like a typical 65 year old because their hormones are out of whack.

Yes this isn't the photo I saw of Bagwell. Maybe it was years earlier here he looks a typical man his age who doesn't hit the gym.

[Rbradleigh]

Just throwing this out there but Bonds got heavy into Cycling in his retirement years. Being big & bulky isn’t congruent with cycling and so I’d expect him to look the part.