First Buzz: 2024 Topps Star Wars Galactic Antiquities

[baseballbunez]

There is simply bad info on cost and margins in this thread, always interesting seeing some get worked up without knowing the numbers on stuff. Nobody got any cases at $1k, initial cost was above that. Topps did 2nd wave of this set over $2k late last week, which is why a lot of breakers offering it up now. Nobody is getting rich off this set, especially since nobody got large allocations up front since it is a shorter run product. During Stellar release years the narrative was it was horrible and don't buy til dealers were losing a few grand per box, now w/ this the complaint is values are too high and not buy the sets because dealers are making a grand per box.

Back to the actual set though- cards look great in hand, beskar autos are the chase IMO, and while Hamill/Ford chase would have been great the complaints on pricing would only be louder with this likely being even higher

[maneonemo]

Originally Posted by baseballbunez

Nobody got any cases at $1k

Right, maybe not a grand exactly but was it that much more?

I've seen some breakers already that couldn't publicly contain themselves with the excitement and obnoxiously bragged about how they'll buy all the boxes with big markups (below certain threshold) on the secondary market to dump them with much higher markups in breaks.

Selling spots that add up to 3.8k/box is rookie numbers compared to what the more crafty breakers manage to pull. I've seen already in the popular place spots being filled that added up to 5k, and later even 6.5k.

Originally Posted by baseballbunez

Nobody is getting rich off this set

The only way nobody is getting rich from this set, is if the breakers that are profiting off of it were already rich in the first place.

[baseballbunez]

Originally Posted by maneonemo

Right, maybe not a grand exactly but was it that much more?

I've seen some breakers already that couldn't publicly contain themselves with the excitement and obnoxiously bragged about how they'll buy all the boxes with big markups (below certain threshold) on the secondary market to dump them with much higher markups in breaks.

Selling spots that add up to 3.8k/box is rookie numbers compared to what the more crafty breakers manage to pull. I've seen already in the popular place spots being filled that added up to 5k, and later even 6.5k.



The only way nobody is getting rich from this set, is if the breakers that are profiting off of it were already rich in the first place.

If you're upset about a breaker making $1,500 off a case then I have bad news for you on what the market has been on sports side for ~5 years.

I haven't seen a single breaker anywhere over the $369 per random spot which I thought was hefty, not sure where you're seeing $3,800 case breaks as "rookie numbers" when 99% of breaks out there are $3,200 and under. Literally anyone on here can go on any platform and buy spots for sub $340 right now. Not saying that as if it is some great price, just saying your examples are not indicative of the market whatsoever.

And perhaps different strokes for different folks but making $3-6k before fees/ship/overhead on 2-4 cases (what most good size breakers got offered on secondary) is not getting rich by most standards

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by baseballbunez

I haven't seen a single breaker anywhere over the $369 per random spot which I thought was hefty

I suspect people are talking about the per-character slot breaks when they're getting higher estimations. I don't know why the conversation is so break-complaint heavy to be honest ... people want to pay it, okay. I just feel really smart that I got in on stellar breaks back in the day for under a hundred.

I'm glad the breakers are enjoying a golden age ... but like most things in this hobby that rollercoaster can't last forever.

[baseballbunez]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

I suspect people are talking about the per-character slot breaks when they're getting higher estimations. I don't know why the conversation is so break-complaint heavy to be honest ... people want to pay it, okay. I just feel really smart that I got in on stellar breaks back in the day for under a hundred.

I'm glad the breakers are enjoying a golden age ... but like most things in this hobby that rollercoaster can't last forever.

Stellar breaks were the best, I ripped 5-10 cases of each release! I remember one specific poster complained on every single thread about them, while many of us were buying cases or in to breaks and enjoying the value. We didn't know how good we had it til the takeover. But in this new "normal", Antiquities checks the boxes for content (to a degree, would have loved Christensen/Ford/Hamill obviously as well as maybe 1 premium screen used or prop relic per box). Price isn't ideal, but the market has moved to where it is and people can choose to skip it if uncomfortable with it

[Mattsurewood]

I was hoping to see more sketches and cards on eBay (not for buying, just to look), I always like looking at the nice sketches.

I guess more will hit once breakers "mail out" the hits to the people..

[Jaysabz]

Originally Posted by baseballbunez

If you're upset about a breaker making $1,500 off a case then I have bad news for you on what the market has been on sports side for ~5 years.

I haven't seen a single breaker anywhere over the $369 per random spot which I thought was hefty, not sure where you're seeing $3,800 case breaks as "rookie numbers" when 99% of breaks out there are $3,200 and under. Literally anyone on here can go on any platform and buy spots for sub $340 right now. Not saying that as if it is some great price, just saying your examples are not indicative of the market whatsoever.

And perhaps different strokes for different folks but making $3-6k before fees/ship/overhead on 2-4 cases (what most good size breakers got offered on secondary) is not getting rich by most standards

Interesting to hear the perspective of the other side.

I don't know what you do for a living sir, but it takes about 10 minutes going slow to break a box of Galactic Antiquities.

So to make $3-$6k gross on 2-4 cases for 20-40 minutes of work, respectively, which I'd conservatively guess would be $1500-$3000 net on initial allocations if you included shipping, breaker pay, etc., .... I'd say that's good money for under 1 hours' work, and includes the ordering, cutting the outer boxes and flattening them out for recycling too! And if that doesn't make someone "rich" to be pulling down thousands of dollars net per hour, I'd say it puts them well on their way!

Also, it's wonderful that breakers have been pulling down these kind of margins for years. However, non-sports has been on a bit of its own island in that breakers weren't really seeking out non-sports until recently, but we had literally 20-30 breaks with iFish here from 2018-2021 with Stellar, where we got nice cards for nice prices, all happily skipping along together.

Also, maybe I'm naive, but it seemed non-sports folks were more about collecting than other sports. With sports breaks, you had some buy a team, where I'd buy Eagles or Phillies for PC cards, but then it moved to random teams and on higher end random hit, and it seemed the vast majority just took to eBay to flip their DeLaCruz or Wemby or Yamamoto.

Plus, ultimately this product relies on its sketches. The top top signers are SSP, seen a few Emilia Clarke autos and a few Samuel J's, but the feigned hype from the breakers who don't know anything about Star Wars is fun and funny. " OH wow, this is sick.... Freddie Prince Jr. as..... Cannon..... Jarruks, nice hit.... to 10!! Wow, to 10!!"

[Grid]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

If we needed more indicia that these are just degenerate gamblers buying $320 scratch offs instead of caring about the actual cards, this is it.

Regulate it like gambling then, if Fanarics is going to control what "casinos" get what "slot machines."

Using your analogy of gambling. Casinos will always cater to their bigger players. Do you think they stand in lines at clubs? Wait in the check-in lines for their rooms? Stand with the peasants for cabs?

No, they get special privileges that come with the tons of money they spent in the casino.

Is that fair to the low roller from Omaha that spent dozens of dollars in the same casino? It isn't to them. But a company cant cater to everyone. So they go the extra mile for their big spenders. in this case, major breakers.

Welcome to the real world.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

Interesting to hear the perspective of the other side.

I don't know what you do for a living sir, but it takes about 10 minutes going slow to break a box of Galactic Antiquities.

So to make $3-$6k gross on 2-4 cases for 20-40 minutes of work, respectively, which I'd conservatively guess would be $1500-$3000 net on initial allocations if you included shipping, breaker pay, etc., .... I'd say that's good money for under 1 hours' work, and includes the ordering, cutting the outer boxes and flattening them out for recycling too! And if that doesn't make someone "rich" to be pulling down thousands of dollars net per hour, I'd say it puts them well on their way!

Also, it's wonderful that breakers have been pulling down these kind of margins for years. However, non-sports has been on a bit of its own island in that breakers weren't really seeking out non-sports until recently, but we had literally 20-30 breaks with iFish here from 2018-2021 with Stellar, where we got nice cards for nice prices, all happily skipping along together.

Also, maybe I'm naive, but it seemed non-sports folks were more about collecting than other sports. With sports breaks, you had some buy a team, where I'd buy Eagles or Phillies for PC cards, but then it moved to random teams and on higher end random hit, and it seemed the vast majority just took to eBay to flip their DeLaCruz or Wemby or Yamamoto.

Plus, ultimately this product relies on its sketches. The top top signers are SSP, seen a few Emilia Clarke autos and a few Samuel J's, but the feigned hype from the breakers who don't know anything about Star Wars is fun and funny. " OH wow, this is sick.... Freddie Prince Jr. as..... Cannon..... Jarruks, nice hit.... to 10!! Wow, to 10!!"

I am not defending the breakers. As I have never joined or hosted a break. Nor do I have any intention of ever doing one. But just to better explain how that works...

Most of these breakers, who get product like this when collectors are shut out. Dont pocket all the money you think they do. They have overhead, like any other business.

They often pay rent, pay for staff, pay for packing supplies and shipping, pay for marketing and ads. And still have to account for the "bad" products they are forced to buy, and sometimes take a loss on. For the right to buy the "good" stuff that often sets collectors off like your post.

I assure you, hardly anyone (or no one) is pocketing $6K on a few cases of this stuff. And certainly not net, when you figure in the other costs I posted above.

[baseballbunez]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

So to make $3-$6k gross on 2-4 cases for 20-40 minutes of work, respectively, which I'd conservatively guess would be $1500-$3000 net on initial allocations if you included shipping, breaker pay, etc., .... I'd say that's good money for under 1 hours' work, and includes the ordering, cutting the outer boxes and flattening them out for recycling too! And if that doesn't make someone "rich" to be pulling down thousands of dollars net per hour, I'd say it puts them well on their way!

I'm not a breaker or store owner, just to get that out of the way. And 100% agree if breaking it down hourly it sounds extravagant. The thing is the breakers are only getting 1-2 cases at cost and then maybe 2-4 at $2k+ on secondary, and I think it is quite obvious that to portray it as some repeatable task hourly is disingenuous. So for some breakers that is all their income on it and then nothing til next release, or until they go out and buy more to try and raise rates to make whatever they can to stay in the public eye til next new release. Making $1,500-3k an hour is rich, making $1,500-3k over a let's say 2 week period til next release hits is not.

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

Also, maybe I'm naive, but it seemed non-sports folks were more about collecting than other sports. With sports breaks, you had some buy a team, where I'd buy Eagles or Phillies for PC cards, but then it moved to random teams and on higher end random hit, and it seemed the vast majority just took to eBay to flip their DeLaCruz or Wemby or Yamamoto.

Plus, ultimately this product relies on its sketches. The top top signers are SSP, seen a few Emilia Clarke autos and a few Samuel J's, but the feigned hype from the breakers who don't know anything about Star Wars is fun and funny. " OH wow, this is sick.... Freddie Prince Jr. as..... Cannon..... Jarruks, nice hit.... to 10!! Wow, to 10!!"

Non-sports is more about collecting, absolutely, and you are clearly free to collect what you want. But what it is not about is having access to any item you choose to collect at a fixed price no matter the value or market because that is what it was recommended to be priced at release. People are buying at $2700+ per case, myself included, and enjoying it. Why would people sell for $1500 when market says it's worth more just because?

And absolutely I agree with you nothing worse than breakers that hype up stuff they know nothing about. It's not a good look and I'd rather they just go through the motions personally but the pretend "SOUND THE ALARM" type stuff over a Swallow /10 doesn't do it for me. Neither does that Ally chick crashing out on stream the other night complaining about how she was the first SW breaker so people should pay more for her spots. I buy in from breakers that actually know what they're opening, as easy as that sounds it is tough to find these days in the current environment

[ATLOTP]

Originally Posted by baseballbunez

Neither does that Ally chick crashing out on stream the other night complaining about how she was the first SW breaker so people should pay more for her spots.

there a recording of this anywhere?

[Archangel1775]

Supply & Demand rules. Most breakers reduce spot prices as the break gets closer. Some people don't mind paying a small premium for a specific character or an early break. I mean, obviously if the case is $1200 and they are charging $200 spot in a 30 spot break, there is a disconnect but normally it isn't that egregious. With few exceptions, in no way should a business be doing breaks for 0 profit.

[baseballbunez]

Originally Posted by ATLOTP

there a recording of this anywhere?

It was on whatnot the other night, not trying to throw her under the bus or anything it isn’t about any one breaker. It was a tough little stretch but not trying to make about her as much as a passing comment on breakers in general with this set

[Jaysabz]

Originally Posted by Grid

Using your analogy of gambling. Casinos will always cater to their bigger players. Do you think they stand in lines at clubs? Wait in the check-in lines for their rooms? Stand with the peasants for cabs?

No, they get special privileges that come with the tons of money they spent in the casino.

Is that fair to the low roller from Omaha that spent dozens of dollars in the same casino? It isn't to them. But a company cant cater to everyone. So they go the extra mile for their big spenders. in this case, major breakers.

Welcome to the real world.

Thanks. Real world isn't lost on me that better customers get better prices, more product, etc. But let's roll the ball down the hill a little further.

Couldn't another breaker claim it's an unfair trade practice to do so? I am willing to pay the same as Breaker X, but Breaker X gets 20 cases and I get only 5.. how can I grow to be as big as Breaker X if they get more product than my company? We'll never be able to compete with Breaker X.

And how were Breakers filling random hit breaks weeks before the public had a chance to purchase boxes? Is there no requirement that any go to consumers? They had obviously either officially or unofficially told some breakers how many they were getting in the first wave at least.

Could Fanatics charge for a Breaker's License and only sell product to Breakers who buy a license for $100k per year?

Different question, but could Topps/Fanatics offer a product only to breakers? None to the big 3 online, none direct to consumer, only sell to those who pay the breaker license fee, like how Montgomery Club members get exclusive offers?

Sorry ... had a bunch of questions, most hypothetical, but legitimate, I believe.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by Grid

Using your analogy of gambling. Casinos will always cater to their bigger players. Do you think they stand in lines at clubs? Wait in the check-in lines for their rooms? Stand with the peasants for cabs?

No, they get special privileges that come with the tons of money they spent in the casino.

Is that fair to the low roller from Omaha that spent dozens of dollars in the same casino? It isn't to them. But a company cant cater to everyone. So they go the extra mile for their big spenders. in this case, major breakers.

Welcome to the real world.

How many times are people going to post something similar to this? The card industry the last 5 years is in no way representative of the casino business. The casino isn't going to give rates to players that they are guaranteed to win and guaranteed to win huge on every single time. The casinos would go out of business if they did this.

If you're going to argue that most of these breakers spend the most with Panini and Fanatics it's only because Panini and Fanatics are allowing these very small groups to spend the most. If they offered those products at those quantities to any buyer you'd have a line of millions of people trying to get in to get those spots. It's a never ending money tree. They needed these groups until 2020 because the margins were usually around 25%. They also needed them because these for the most part were not easy to move products. Now almost everything is incredibly easy to move it all immediately. The margins are so high that especially in the case of Panini the direct below MSRP buyer and/or breaker is making more profit per box than the total cost Panini is selling them the product for.

How does it make any sense to continually give the secondary seller a product with an immediate profit of over 100%? Products that in many cases they are selling at those prices before even receiving the products in the mail.

If you want to argue that so and so only gets so much at a low cost again thats fine. The main issue the last 5 years has been the big 3. They are getting the most. They are getting it all for peanuts. They are the ones setting the high price. They are the main ones that need to be shown the door and things would at the very least change somewhat.

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

Thanks. Real world isn't lost on me that better customers get better prices, more product, etc. But let's roll the ball down the hill a little further.

Couldn't another breaker claim it's an unfair trade practice to do so? I am willing to pay the same as Breaker X, but Breaker X gets 20 cases and I get only 5.. how can I grow to be as big as Breaker X if they get more product than my company? We'll never be able to compete with Breaker X.

And how were Breakers filling random hit breaks weeks before the public had a chance to purchase boxes? Is there no requirement that any go to consumers? They had obviously either officially or unofficially told some breakers how many they were getting in the first wave at least.

Could Fanatics charge for a Breaker's License and only sell product to Breakers who buy a license for $100k per year?

Different question, but could Topps/Fanatics offer a product only to breakers? None to the big 3 online, none direct to consumer, only sell to those who pay the breaker license fee, like how Montgomery Club members get exclusive offers?

Sorry ... had a bunch of questions, most hypothetical, but legitimate, I believe.

Here's what's funny about the analogy you made. In most cases the breaker getting none or less isn't offering to pay the same as the guys getting more. They are offering to pay not only more but WAY MORE yet can't get more from the source. IE Panini and Fanatics. How does this make any sense? It's been happening for 5 years straight now. All these breakers and shops willing to pay way more than the guys paying 75-80% of MSRP yet it almost all goes to the guys that are paying by far the least money for it.

Hell, Im a small time guy. If I was offered their allocation tomorrow I would find the money to pay for it. If I was offered it all and had to pay the full MSRP I'd find a way to get the money. If I can do that, how many other people out there that know what's been going on in this industry this entire decade would be willing to do the same? Panini is obviously much worse than Fanatics has been but both of them could decide to charge their direct buyers full MSRP price tomorrow instead of 20-25% below MSRP and every single one of them would begrudgingly pay it. That's a difference of tens of millions of dollars per year these companies could snap their fingers and receive yet don't.

[greatgradegrate]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

don't know why the conversation is so break-complaint heavy to be honest ... people want to pay it, okay.

I'm glad the breakers are enjoying a golden age ... but like most things in this hobby that rollercoaster can't last forever.

I honestly care less about the profit breakers are getting off of GA than the fact that they got it AT ALL.

Give them a bunch of 30k box products, fine. Not the super limited, carefully curated, fancily-packaged once every who-knows-how-long product.

I certainly enjoy breaks on occasion, when they make sense for my situation, and don't care about others doing the breaking or buying in -- but I do completely mind when there is a product that is almost exclusively sold by breakers (I cannot even think of an instance with SW like this one in the last 5 years).

[cypher]

The most bizarre part about this release has to be the base card parallels in magnetics. "Hey we put your $10 hit in a magnetic so now it's 10x'd! 10x the hobby!" Watching breakers slow roll every one.

[Mattsurewood]

Originally Posted by cypher

The most bizarre part about this release has to be the base card parallels in magnetics. "Hey we put your $10 hit in a magnetic so now it's 10x'd! 10x the hobby!" Watching breakers slow roll every one.

True--I will point out though that when I open a case of SW Masterwork, I generally get 2 red/25 parallels, maybe one orange /10...so, at least the ratios play out similarly, 2 base cards /25 or better in this "case" of Antiquities...

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by greatgradegrate

I honestly care less about the profit breakers are getting off of GA than the fact that they got it AT ALL.

Give them a bunch of 30k box products, fine. Not the super limited, carefully curated, fancily-packaged once every who-knows-how-long product.

I certainly enjoy breaks on occasion, when they make sense for my situation, and don't care about others doing the breaking or buying in -- but I do completely mind when there is a product that is almost exclusively sold by breakers (I cannot even think of an instance with SW like this one in the last 5 years).

Probably not a popular opinion but I'm just skipping this product because of this exact thing of limited run with super controlled distribution that I'm not a part of. If I can't buy a box, everyone else can have at this one and I'll wait for the next one. Maybe that's just because we've always had 13 to 20 star wars releases per year but sometimes I miss out and that's okay.

[FatButcher]

I don't think that will be an unpopular opinion at all. I would have bought a couple boxes at retail of this, but would never get into a break for it. Since my day job didn't allow me to compete for the 33 cases online I'm happy to sit this one out.

[bub838]

Originally Posted by greatgradegrate

I honestly care less about the profit breakers are getting off of GA than the fact that they got it AT ALL.

Give them a bunch of 30k box products, fine. Not the super limited, carefully curated, fancily-packaged once every who-knows-how-long product.

I certainly enjoy breaks on occasion, when they make sense for my situation, and don't care about others doing the breaking or buying in -- but I do completely mind when there is a product that is almost exclusively sold by breakers (I cannot even think of an instance with SW like this one in the last 5 years).

If it makes you feel any better this does not apply to Fanatics. You'll get this again next year, or something similar- and probably with a couple additional similar SKU's.

[greatgradegrate]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

Probably not a popular opinion but I'm just skipping this product because of this exact thing of limited run with super controlled distribution that I'm not a part of. If I can't buy a box, everyone else can have at this one and I'll wait for the next one. Maybe that's just because we've always had 13 to 20 star wars releases per year but sometimes I miss out and that's okay.

Oh I'm def out on Antiquities, too, but I have less of a c'est la vie attitude about it. The way this one was handled makes me less interested in everything on the Topps horizon.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

Thanks. Real world isn't lost on me that better customers get better prices, more product, etc. But let's roll the ball down the hill a little further.

Couldn't another breaker claim it's an unfair trade practice to do so? I am willing to pay the same as Breaker X, but Breaker X gets 20 cases and I get only 5.. how can I grow to be as big as Breaker X if they get more product than my company? We'll never be able to compete with Breaker X.

And how were Breakers filling random hit breaks weeks before the public had a chance to purchase boxes? Is there no requirement that any go to consumers? They had obviously either officially or unofficially told some breakers how many they were getting in the first wave at least.

Could Fanatics charge for a Breaker's License and only sell product to Breakers who buy a license for $100k per year?

Different question, but could Topps/Fanatics offer a product only to breakers? None to the big 3 online, none direct to consumer, only sell to those who pay the breaker license fee, like how Montgomery Club members get exclusive offers?

Sorry ... had a bunch of questions, most hypothetical, but legitimate, I believe.

All good questions! But this is how free trade is set up. Is it fair to the mom and pop grocery store, that Coke sells soda for so much less to Walmart? Walmart is a much, much more valued customer. As they spend so much more money.

Not only will Walmart pay less. But they will also be guaranteed allotment. If supply issues become a concern. Which is exactly what we saw during the pandemic. The major corporations that spend the most money. Were first in line to receive goods.

It is not in the suppliers best interest to ensure a level playing field for all that buy their goods. They have, and always will, support their larger clients. And there is nothing illegal or even immoral in any of that.

Now, saying something is going to be released to the public and only doing so on a very, very small scale is unethical. How Fanatics handled this drop is a bad look to those end users who wanted a personal box or two.

But in the same vein, Fanatics has very little concern over the hurt feelings of many small buyers. If it means they keep their cash cows happy. I am not saying that is right. But I am saying that is how it all works.

[greatgradegrate]

Originally Posted by bub838

If it makes you feel any better this does not apply to Fanatics. You'll get this again next year, or something similar- and probably with a couple additional similar SKU's.

Yeah, some watered down price-jacked Antiquities released in unison with Antiquities Breaker's Deluxe isn't gonna make me feel too much better.

[ricebellypanda]

Now that Topps has Disney license in the US, I imagine Marvel movie sets like these are coming as well..