CGC Grading

[baseballcarding]

What is the reputation of CGC grading for cards? I know for comics it is pretty much #1 but for non sports cards is CGC a good option? Or PSA still king?


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[js0000001]

PSA > CGC

For my personal collection I use CGC. For things that I plan to sell I use PSA.

[finfangfan]

If you sub through COMC, the cheapest CGC option is $16 vs $23 being the cheapest PSA option. If trying to resell, I think in long run you are better off going with PSA 90% of the time. However, I’ve encountered some sketches PSA wouldn’t slab (frequently if the sketch card is unsigned) that CGC was happy to slab.

And PSA doesn’t grade printing plates (it marks them as Authentic) but CGC will give printing plates a grade. However, I like the look of PSA slabbed plates so I have still subbed quite a few of them to PSA anyway.

[orion9578]

The "right" answer is probably PSA in all cases. I've used the 3 COMC offers in the past few months and it's basically broke down like this:

PSA - The most expensive, the longest wait but on time and worth the most assuming it grades the same(9 vs 9, 8 vs 8, 10 vs 10).

SGC - I sent vintage, which is probably all I'd send to them...not a huge fan of the cases but they're close to sold PSA prices and they're actually only 50% of the wait time(and on time...) and 70%~ of the cost($16 vs $23).

CGC - Cheapest option. Not by much, but cheapest. Took about 1 month over the estimated date, which put it at nearly PSA timing but was about 65%~ the cost($15 vs $23).

Haven't used BGS since COMC stopped using them.

[DynaEtch]

PSA is king for value. Anyone who disagrees check Gem Mint examples of say 92 Masterpieces battle spectra PSA 10 vs CGC 10 (or 9.5 before change).

CGC does a lot better in modern UD era Marvel than it does in sports (probably because the comic connection and carry over), but still second to PSA in equivalent grade. That said modern marvel card grading is dominated by both PSA and CGC. I do not think CGC values perform well in 90s marvel.

Things CGC surpasses PSA in:

-The slab CGC uses is higher quality than PSA’s.
-Cheaper to grade
-Signature series witnessed autos
-They grade errors (not just well known ones but also fluke misprints, and designate them errors too).
-Possibly more consistent grading.

When it comes to cards though, PSA is king and it’s a carry over from sports.

[Rictor]

CGC is most popular in the Pokemon/CCG realm. I think they'll take over the nonsports market next and eventually become more and more popular with sports. My reasoning is that they're such a big company with so much cross-over appeal as they grade everything. They also have the money to buy competitors that may start to have financial troubles.

They own JSA for auto authentication. They do comic grading, video games, Funko Pops, trading cards, coins, etc. They aren't leaving the card grading market anytime soon.

I'd say buy CGC 10s now if graded cards are your thing. They will likely become closer to PSA values over time. It's not like PSA is any better at grading cards than CGC. They are dominating on name recognition only and CGC has the advertising dollars to take over as most recognized brand with time.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by Rictor

CGC is most popular in the Pokemon/CCG realm. I think they'll take over the nonsports market next and eventually become more and more popular with sports. My reasoning is that they're such a big company with so much cross-over appeal as they grade everything. They also have the money to buy competitors that may start to have financial troubles.

They own JSA for auto authentication. They do comic grading, video games, Funko Pops, trading cards, coins, etc. They aren't leaving the card grading market anytime soon.

I'd say buy CGC 10s now if graded cards are your thing. They will likely become closer to PSA values over time. It's not like PSA is any better at grading cards than CGC. They are dominating on name recognition only and CGC has the advertising dollars to take over as most recognized brand with time.

Delusional my friend, delusional. They are a big company, for sure. But one word will almost certainly stop that from happening. Registry. Way too many people have way too much money wrapped up into their PSA cards and their PSA registry sets/players/characters.

I do agree that a CGC 10 vs SGC 10 vs PSA 10 vs BGS 9.5/10 are probably close in terms of condition. PSA isn't better at grading than any of the other big cards companies. But registry collectors and PSA 10 POP 1 collectors will almost certainly dwarf anything CGC pumps out in the foreseeable future.

Things do change though, I'll also concede that point. It'd take something unforeseen to happen, in my opinion. I just don't see people cracking PSA 10's to get CGC 10's any time soon .

[cmixer]

While I'll agree that PSA is king,
I like that CGC allows for multiple lines of text
(so I can get set, character, artist, etc. all printed on the flip).
Plus, the pop report includes these details.
So CGC might be better for sketch cards?

[glorbgorb]

CGC has two versions of 10 like BGS? Sheesh.

[Dredd84]

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

CGC has two versions of 10 like BGS? Sheesh.

Nice sketch mixer!

They do. I was surprised to get this grade back on a sketch.





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[sfgiants4life]

I really do not understand how so many sketch cards can get 10 grades from CGC.

[glorbgorb]

Originally Posted by sfgiants4life

I really do not understand how so many sketch cards can get 10 grades from CGC.

I don't understand why companies grade them, period. Slab, sure, so they can take your money, but grade? Don't get it.

[Rictor]

Originally Posted by orion9578

Delusional my friend, delusional. They are a big company, for sure. But one word will almost certainly stop that from happening. Registry. Way too many people have way too much money wrapped up into their PSA cards and their PSA registry sets/players/characters.

I do agree that a CGC 10 vs SGC 10 vs PSA 10 vs BGS 9.5/10 are probably close in terms of condition. PSA isn't better at grading than any of the other big cards companies. But registry collectors and PSA 10 POP 1 collectors will almost certainly dwarf anything CGC pumps out in the foreseeable future.

Things do change though, I'll also concede that point. It'd take something unforeseen to happen, in my opinion. I just don't see people cracking PSA 10's to get CGC 10's any time soon .

Here's the thing though, PSA is one bad financial decision/graded card market crash from going out of business. CGC has tons of other revenue streams. They could also buy PSA tomorrow with probably 1% of their cash reserves if they felt like it.

CGC also has a registry and registry collectors. And they are getting the younger collectors with Pokemon while the older sports card PSA collectors are dying off from old age.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by Rictor

Here's the thing though, PSA is one bad financial decision/graded card market crash from going out of business. CGC has tons of other revenue streams.1. They could also buy PSA tomorrow with probably 1% of their cash reserves if they felt like it.

2. CGC also has a registry and registry collectors. And they are getting the younger collectors with Pokemon while the older sports card PSA collectors are dying off from old age.

1. That'd probably be what it'd take, but I think that just proves my point. Yes, Blackstone could buy PSA. That'd be the smart thing to do, because as it stands now, CGC card grading just isn't that highly thought of. Do a simple eBay ended/sold search .

2. That's news to me and I've been collecting for 40~ years. Again, further proves my point. Very few people care that CGC has a registry, currently, if I was to hazard a guess.

I like conceding things, so I'll concede another point I think you're trying to make. Yes, in 20 years CGC could be THE grader. I'm not really buying things currently to hold for another 20 years though(I'm old). If my 12 year old son decides he wants to collect Pokemon(He won't, he dislikes cards in general...odd!), then he MIGHT be better off buying CGC? I mean, I guess he might? I'll stick with PSA and not hold my breath that they're going to go out of business tomorrow, for now .

[TXRunner]

I really wish that CGC would cut more into PSA’s share. Everything CGC does is superior to PSA, pricing, customer service, turn around time, slabs, etc. Someone hit the nail on the head on why PSA will reign supreme, too many super collectors with tens, hundreds, thousands of dollars wrapped up in the registry. If PSA ever falls onto hard times money wise, you have a company like Fanatics who will buy it up in a heartbeat.

[LOTG1968]

I've now 32 years dealing with slabbed cards:

Up-to-date Perception of CGC is they are a garbage slabber (ie; the Omega Deal) then there is the Pokeman debacle, which is still on-going BTW, since mid Feb most of that TCG business is now with PSA. To the point PSA has been heavily hiring in their NJ office to handle what they expect is not short term but long term deluge. I was there last week on walk-through business and talked to a supervisor.

Current Collector and Seller Perception is:

1) PSA - highest among sellers. Cards in PSA slabs command a premium over all other slabs nearly every time. Standards that ofttimes are too strict. It may be decades before their dominance is challenged

2) SGC - very popular with Collectors who do not sell. Since PSA's parent purchased them grading is PSA strict but submissions are faster and cost less. Many like me feel this is the nicest looking and highest quality slab.

3) BGS - still popular among older folks who recall the Beckett name but have been out of touch with the hobby. Also among novices. Experienced folks don't use them unless they are trying to "hide" something.

Then take a Huge step down as TAG and CGC battle for 4th.


Pokeman debacle and their associated reactions is a wood stake in CGC's heart.

Now as for comics PSA may very well begin to eat some of CGC's lunch later this year. CGC's wanton willing damaging of high grade comics to save a penny or so per inner well will come back to haunt their bottom line. CGC repsonded via gaslighting and purging all information and members referring their damage books were banned. CGC is still damaging books but don't look at their forums for details they have scrubbed them clean.

Many now former CGC slab Collectors + Submitters are now chompin' at-the-bit for PSA and their soon to be Premium Quality slabs that will keep the comic Flat and not bent into a bruised Banana.

If not in process already behind scenes, expect Blackstone to divest themselves of CGC or all of Collector's Society in the next 6-12 months as prime pumping for them is long since past and what's left is not worth the effort - akin to an oil well long past its peak.

[LOTG1968]

Collector's Society is owned by Blackstone which is huge but they are known for pump-and-dumps. The only question is has or when (not if) CGC will fall under the unknown number Blackstone has for them.

Collector's Universe PSA's parent is private company which falls under the ownership ultimately of multi-Billionaires Steve Cohen and Nat Turner. They do not have shareholders to report to and have no challenging competition in Trading Card grading. With his ego don't ever expect PSA (Collector's Universe) to be sold by Cohen its a minor side hustle for him that feeds into his hubris.

Plenty of reasons to dislike PSA, but CGC is worse and Cards in their slabs are a tough sell in the market and if Pokeman they are now rather tainted in market perception. When the Omega Deal ends if no replacement for that huge amount of bulk junk slabbing expect CGC's card division to have mass layoffs with a possible shuttering.

[DynaEtch]

Seems like veiled ad for PSA, but my take on this- don’t really trust any grading company all that much. It’s quite easy to find issues with PSA, check the baseball forum for almost constant stream of threads of fake/doctored cards in PSA holders, and the inconsistency in grading is almost comical.
They all have their issues.

Since this is the nonsports category, I’d still put CGC above like BGS. Marvel cards, which make up a decently big chunk of non sports, more often tend to be in CGC slabs than BGS.

[YayNJ]

Originally Posted by LOTG1968

I've now 32 years dealing with slabbed cards:

Up-to-date Perception of CGC is they are a garbage slabber (ie; the Omega Deal) then there is the Pokeman debacle, which is still on-going BTW, since mid Feb most of that TCG business is now with PSA. To the point PSA has been heavily hiring in their NJ office to handle what they expect is not short term but long term deluge. I was there last week on walk-through business and talked to a supervisor.

Current Collector and Seller Perception is:

1) PSA - highest among sellers. Cards in PSA slabs command a premium over all other slabs nearly every time. Standards that ofttimes are too strict. It may be decades before their dominance is challenged

2) SGC - very popular with Collectors who do not sell. Since PSA's parent purchased them grading is PSA strict but submissions are faster and cost less. Many like me feel this is the nicest looking and highest quality slab.

3) BGS - still popular among older folks who recall the Beckett name but have been out of touch with the hobby. Also among novices. Experienced folks don't use them unless they are trying to "hide" something.

Then take a Huge step down as TAG and CGC battle for 4th.


Pokeman debacle and their associated reactions is a wood stake in CGC's heart.

Now as for comics PSA may very well begin to eat some of CGC's lunch later this year. CGC's wanton willing damaging of high grade comics to save a penny or so per inner well will come back to haunt their bottom line. CGC repsonded via gaslighting and purging all information and members referring their damage books were banned. CGC is still damaging books but don't look at their forums for details they have scrubbed them clean.

Many now former CGC slab Collectors + Submitters are now chompin' at-the-bit for PSA and their soon to be Premium Quality slabs that will keep the comic Flat and not bent into a bruised Banana.

If not in process already behind scenes, expect Blackstone to divest themselves of CGC or all of Collector's Society in the next 6-12 months as prime pumping for them is long since past and what's left is not worth the effort - akin to an oil well long past its peak.

Dang, I hope you got paid for this.

[glorbgorb]

I dabble in CGC comics, and there seems to be no shortage of books available. Oh well.

Anyway, I wonder how much I need to update this. Still seems pretty accurate:
https://czech-it-cards.blogspot.com/...-should-i.html

[LOTG1968]

Think what you want but CGC is toast in trading cards. IMHO don't waste your money on them. Go SGC, PSA or if you never plan on selling then BGS. Final nail in CGC's coffin is this just announced this week eBay w/PSA program - note the card they used is a Marvel!

https://www.psacard.com/info/ebay-gr...4web_only=true

IMHO they should also offer choice for SGC.

As for comics by this time next year PSA may siphon off as much as 30% of CGC's Comic Grading business according to some projections. Anywhere above 20% will mean foot in door well positioned to push open eventually. Conversely if PSA fails to drain at least 10% in first year then they will be gone from Comic Space in less than 2 years.

As consumers any who are smart will welcome strong competition we all benefit in terms of prices and innovation. This is my agenda!

[finfangfan]

I’m curious if COMC will have an arrangement with PSA to grade comics through the COMC website. I think that would both help build PSA’s comic grading footprint and could also increase COMC’s comic book sales.

[LOTG1968]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

I’m curious if COMC will have an arrangement with PSA to grade comics through the COMC website. I think that would both help build PSA’s comic grading footprint and could also increase COMC’s comic book sales.

Interesting you ask. From same Folks back in Feb who told me the Deal with eBay woudl be coming also told me they were working on similar with eBay and MCS for raw comics. But COMC was not mentioned still who knows.

The advantage Collector's Universe (PSA,SGC etc) had over Collector's Society (CGC) is they are privately held by those with huge ego's. These folks are willing to toss around their cash even taking a short term loss in exchange for claiming victory in Mid term.

Rumours abound that Blackstone is attempting to polish up CGC, break it off from Collector's Society and sell it off. CGC's valuation was 500MM in 2021 it's now under 150MM. If they do that a potential suitor could be Beckett (combine it with CBCS) or PSA.

CBCS BTW may not have the market perception but their slabs do not damage comic books via bending. CGC has been attempting to suppress that however eventually the Truth does will out. it's one of many factors CGC profits have declined.

It does beg the question though is there really enough money in the slabbed Comic market to sustain 3 company's going forward? A market when many advanced collectors (not sellers) now preach "Raw is the new graded"


Anyhow folks did not mean to sound like a PSA commercial in my earlier posts. I actually was thrown off their forums for speaking out against them and they have a pretty high tolerance for that. Reason for my post was to hopefully save good folks from sinking money into CGC trading card slabbing when its really not wise fiscally. Want a nice looking slab with decent TAT's, PSa level grading, and lower than PSA price use SGC - now that is a commercial for SGC

[DynaEtch]

I trust CGCs grading lately more than PSAs tbh. I was doing an experiment trying to collect PSA gem mint 10s of certain runs of Marvel cards. In my browsing on eBay, I really found myself having to look closely at the card, whether in the psa 10 holder or not (silly I have to do that). The reason is because there were enough examples out there with visible flaws inside a PSA Gem Mint 10 holder…in a few cases even with literal paper loss, like in some of the 92-93 Masterpieces sets, probably from bricking*. Also suspected on more than one occasion trimming, due to questionable edges. Which would not be unheard of whatsoever given psa’s history. So in short a lot of grading is a borderline scam, and I’m also not convinced there are that much differences between 10s and 9s, to the point some are designated a 10 or a 9, just because.

I’m sure CGC is far from perfect too. As is any grading company. But I think the above post is underestimating CGC’s pull in nonsports cards, especially marvel. Many marvel cards getting into CGC slabs. Was just talking on the phone with them about a submission, they were saying how backlogged the warehouse was with incoming packages. PSA is king for secondary market value though. Personally I like the actual slab quality of CGC’s better than PSA’s, both for presentation and security of card within.

*Edit: to see what I mean…pulling just one random example from ebay- this Doom 2099 is supposedly in GEM MINT condition.





All that white stuff on the back? Is it supposed to be there?

Here’s what a back should look like


You tell me…is what looks like classic signs of paper loss all over the back just totally glossed over for a Gem Mint 10? If so…how is it so easily seen via a 2-bit glance at an online pic, yet passed over by supposedly the ‘premier’ graders inspecting it ultra close up in person? (Possibly by more than one person too, depending if grading is done by consensus). Why do we value that? Can you imagine if someone pays $50-75 or whatever this card goes for in psa 10 for a card id toss in the literal trash pile from damage while opening 93MM boxes?

In case you’re wondering, this is not an isolated situation, I have to carefully look over cards even when in a psa 10 slab to make sure it’s not an actual junk card. A lot of grading I do think is a borderline scam.

[LOTG1968]

Seeing speckles on back as well as front to a lesser extent. I've seen similar with dirty scanners. Thing is many scanners will attract dust even on bottom of glass. Epson's lower priced smaller scanners have been known for that since the late 90's.


The knock on PSA in most Forums including their own is they are too strict. 6's and 7's are cracked and sent elsewhere get 10's.

IMHO bottom line if you sell slabbed cards use PSA, if you collect then submit to SGC.

SGC's slab both structurally and visually is best in class. Fast TATS even with them being flooded with subs recently and a fair pricing especially on valuable cards its the same $15. None of that up-charge nonsense after you send it to them.

Bash PSA all you want here but most of the hobby won't touch CGC slabs and with the Pokeman debacle submissions on TPG cards has slowed to a trickle.

Only the Omega deal which has cemented CGC's reputation as garbage slabber is keeping that division afloat. Expect much better TAT's from CGC when that expires but don't sub too much as if they close their doors you will have a nightmare getting you cards back assuming you even do.

Time will tell but why risk wasting your money when you can use SGC and their high level of collector perception. SGC BTW used to be owned by CGC's parent Collector's Society...

P.S. Yes grading be it comics or cards is at minimum scam adjacent. There are NO Boy Scouts in collectibles grading, its a vile nasty business! It may be worse than private trash hauling?