I don’t think buying baseball cards is gambling

[DaveTaplin]

The fact that the have to say "no purchase necessary" should tell you something.

In 2005 Topps put $100 bills in packs. What would that be called?

[Twalk1975]

I'm going to feel like a degenerate now any time I purchase a bottle of soda where I can win a free t-shirt if I get the lucky cap. Those bottles also all have a "no purchase necessary" disclaimer on them.

#Thanks Topps

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Twalk1975

I'm going to feel like a degenerate now any time I purchase a bottle of soda where I can win a free t-shirt if I get the lucky cap. Those bottles also all have a "no purchase necessary" disclaimer on them.

#Thanks Topps

Just don’t pay $30 for the bottle and share it with 29 other guys then no one will judge you.

[dashcol]

I just stopped by to say, I do not consider myself a gambler.

I do want my cards to go up in value, and I do want to hit a big card in any break so I can tie a round a sell it, to get something I truly want.

So why do I not consider it gambling?

1) I buy into anything expecting nothing but enjoyment in return.
2) I only buy into group breaks with other team clectors who like me, want the base cards and inserts of their team, but no others. I will gladly pay $10 to only get my team, and not worry about anything else.
3) when I do buy into other teams on a break, it is to get trade folder, not for investment.
4) all money earned is re-put into the PC. Not to pad my bank account.
5) my PC is worth way less than I paid for it, and I am okay with that.
6) I play with only money I can afford to lose, so there is no feeling of needing to make profit.


All of that to say, I think that this could be considered gambling for some, but a hobby for so many.

[Twalk1975]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Just don’t pay $30 for the bottle and share it with 29 other guys then no one will judge you.

Or be a twelve pack flipper boi...

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Twalk1975

Or be a twelve pack flipper boi...

Enjoy your soda, don’t purposely make it more expensive for someone else!

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I just stopped by to say, I do not consider myself a gambler.

I do want my cards to go up in value, and I do want to hit a big card in any break so I can tie a round a sell it, to get something I truly want.

So why do I not consider it gambling?

1) I buy into anything expecting nothing but enjoyment in return.
2) I only buy into group breaks with other team clectors who like me, want the base cards and inserts of their team, but no others. I will gladly pay $10 to only get my team, and not worry about anything else.
3) when I do buy into other teams on a break, it is to get trade folder, not for investment.
4) all money earned is re-put into the PC. Not to pad my bank account.
5) my PC is worth way less than I paid for it, and I am okay with that.
6) I play with only money I can afford to lose, so there is no feeling of needing to make profit.


All of that to say, I think that this could be considered gambling for some, but a hobby for so many.

Why don’t you simply buy something you truly want? It’s clearly been shown that it is much more economical to buy the singles you desire than to try to land one in a break.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by wilsonsingles

It's actually a lot more complicated than this.
The card contents of boxes aren't random. The card companies know exactly what cards are in what boxes and distribute them accordingly to a hierarchy of customers/breakers.
Certain customers and breakers get preferential loaded boxes/cases while others get the less loaded boxes/cases.
First waves of products are usually better than second waves of products.

One could actually argue, that you would be more likely to hit a big hit if you participated in one of the big two or three big breakers breaks.

This is the way, that the card companies have been able to reap even bigger profits.

The question is whether or not this is technically fraud. Buyers aren't guaranteed a chance at hitting a specific card.

But the emphasis on the monetary value of chase cards makes modern trading card products more like a gambling product. And gambling is regulated differently than other types of products and services.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Why don’t you simply buy something you truly want? It’s clearly been shown that it is much more economical to buy the singles you desire than to try to land one in a break.

Some people still enjoy opening product. The middle class can’t afford a $2,500 box of Definitive Collection but can afford a $125 spot in a break. It’s really that simple.

[RainCityShecks]

It is what it always has been. Pay money, open pack, hope you get something cool/desirable. Now, some of the product is just astronomically more expensive than it was in the past and some people are pissed off about it, hence the name calling and shaking fists at the clouds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jsatx]

I don't want you to think I am picking on you here, but you made some really good points that show the difference between responsible and problem gambling. I work in the gaming industry and have to take a few classes a year on this.

Originally Posted by dashcol

I just stopped by to say, I do not consider myself a gambler.

I do want my cards to go up in value, and I do want to hit a big card in any break so I can tie a round a sell it, to get something I truly want.

So why do I not consider it gambling?

1) I buy into anything expecting nothing but enjoyment in return. Expecting nothing does not make it not gambling. It is responsible. You expect nothing when you bet your son's birthday every time you walk buy a roulette table, or buy a powerball ticket, or bet on your team to cover. It is still gambling.
2) I only buy into group breaks with other team clectors who like me, want the base cards and inserts of their team, but no others. I will gladly pay $10 to only get my team, and not worry about anything else. You are gambling that you will win better cards for the price than you would if you bought them individually.
3) when I do buy into other teams on a break, it is to get trade folder, not for investment. Same thing as #2. You are gambling that you will have a more valuable trade stash than if you purchased cards individually.
4) all money earned is re-put into the PC. Not to pad my bank account. Replace "earned" with "won". When you sit at a slot machine and put $20 into it and win $19 on the first $20 played, you reinvest if you keep playing.
5) my PC is worth way less than I paid for it, and I am okay with that. This is a hobby statement.
6) I play with only money I can afford to lose, so there is no feeling of needing to make profit. This is a textbook example of a responsible gambler.


All of that to say, I think that this could be considered gambling for some, but a hobby for so many.

Again, I'm really not trying to pick on you. You just gave some perfect, textbook examples of what a responsible gambler looks like. Maybe LCS employees and breakers should look for the same signs of problem gambling that casino, sportsbook, and lottery operators are supposed to look for. Or have the same links to problem gambling websites and phone banks that online gaming sites have.

[Bcr]

We are now at the point of it's not gambling if you are doing it responsibly

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Why don’t you simply buy something you truly want? It’s clearly been shown that it is much more economical to buy the singles you desire than to try to land one in a break.

Because normally I can get my team for under $10 dlvd for a new product box break.

Buying the base cards alone with shipping and taxes would be around the same price and this way fellow clectors get to get their teams just as cheap.

Sometimes it way less than the $10 mark when other teams get bid way up. I have gotten my team for $2-3 dlvd.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by jsatx

I don't want you to think I am picking on you here, but you made some really good points that show the difference between responsible and problem gambling. I work in the gaming industry and have to take a few classes a year on this.




Again, I'm really not trying to pick on you. You just gave some perfect, textbook examples of what a responsible gambler looks like. Maybe LCS employees and breakers should look for the same signs of problem gambling that casino, sportsbook, and lottery operators are supposed to look for. Or have the same links to problem gambling websites and phone banks that online gaming sites have.

I didn’t take it as you picking on me at all.

I can see what you’re saying, but I still don’t view it as gambling. I can wait and spend $10 buying the commons off eBay and get the cards I want, or I could spend $10 with a group of friends and now we get two boxes and each of us get our team for those two boxes. $10 for two boxes of a team is cheaper than you get somewhere else which is good economics, not gambling.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I didn’t take it as you picking on me at all.



I can see what you’re saying, but I still don’t view it as gambling. I can wait and spend $10 buying the commons off eBay and get the cards I want, or I could spend $10 with a group of friends and now we get two boxes and each of us get our team for those two boxes. $10 for two boxes of a team is cheaper than you get somewhere else which is good economics, not gambling.

Whether something is a sound economic decision is completely irrelevant to whether it's gambling. Gambling simply means you are purchasing a chance to get something.

I think one thing OP and many others have missed is the important distinction between gambling and illegal gambling.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I didn’t take it as you picking on me at all.

I can see what you’re saying, but I still don’t view it as gambling. I can wait and spend $10 buying the commons off eBay and get the cards I want, or I could spend $10 with a group of friends and now we get two boxes and each of us get our team for those two boxes. $10 for two boxes of a team is cheaper than you get somewhere else which is good economics, not gambling.

That $10 you spend for your team along with 29 other friends equals to paying $300 for the box.

If the box would otherwise cost $150, you are collectively grossly overpaying for the box, which is not good economics.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I just stopped by to say, I do not consider myself a gambler.

I do want my cards to go up in value, and I do want to hit a big card in any break so I can tie a round a sell it, to get something I truly want.

So why do I not consider it gambling?

1) I buy into anything expecting nothing but enjoyment in return.
2) I only buy into group breaks with other team clectors who like me, want the base cards and inserts of their team, but no others. I will gladly pay $10 to only get my team, and not worry about anything else.
3) when I do buy into other teams on a break, it is to get trade folder, not for investment.
4) all money earned is re-put into the PC. Not to pad my bank account.
5) my PC is worth way less than I paid for it, and I am okay with that.
6) I play with only money I can afford to lose, so there is no feeling of needing to make profit.


All of that to say, I think that this could be considered gambling for some, but a hobby for so many.

Sure, you’re clearly describing the universally-accepted definition of the word “hobby”! Naturally providing the proper definition upsets those who will lose profit if everyone understood the truth

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Whether something is a sound economic decision is completely irrelevant to whether it's gambling. Gambling simply means you are purchasing a chance to get something.

I think one thing OP and many others have missed is the important distinction between gambling and illegal gambling.

Sure, it’s not gambling since he already knows what he’ll be getting - base cards of his team:

“I only buy into group breaks with other team clectors who like me, want the base cards and inserts of their team, but no others. I will gladly pay $10 to only get my team, and not worry about anything else.”

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Sure, it’s not gambling since he already knows what he’ll be getting - base cards of his team:

“I only buy into group breaks with other team clectors who like me, want the base cards and inserts of their team, but no others. I will gladly pay $10 to only get my team, and not worry about anything else.”

It's improper to generalize what you'll get to "base cards of his team" because that's not true. He might get some base cards of his team. He might get zero. He might get inserts. Or he might get an expensive autograph. The defintion of buying a chance to get something means you don't know EXACTLY what item you will receive. I know you are smart enough to understand the difference.

[auctionjmm]

Why does anyone care? Is this some puritanical forum where a few gamblers have to justify their actions to the elders?

We all gamble. State lotteries, 50/50 raffles, casinos, sports books, fantasy sports leagues, "Night At The Races", baby pools, Survivor leagues, Pick Em tournaments, white elephant gift exchanges, LRC, and yes, sports cards.

No need to defend it. No need to justify it. When the family whips out LRC at Christmas, you put your $3 on the table and play. Who cares? When your church hosts Night At The Races, you buy a table and support the cause. Who cares? When your nephew is selling 50/50 raffle tickets for his baseball league, you buy some tickets. Who cares? When your friends want to meet at a casino and grab dinner and play a little, you go. Who cares? When the guy at work is collecting $2 for the state lottery, you pay him. Who cares? You join a fantasy football league. Who cares?

If you happen to be one of the few who avoids all of the above, I feel bad for you, but you do your thing. Most of us gamble. Again, who cares? People are bending over backwards to try and explain why cards isn't gambling but I don't see the reason to have to justify it in the first place.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Why does anyone care? Is this some puritanical forum where a few gamblers have to justify their actions to the elders?

We all gamble. State lotteries, 50/50 raffles, casinos, sports books, fantasy sports leagues, "Night At The Races", baby pools, Survivor leagues, Pick Em tournaments, white elephant gift exchanges, LRC, and yes, sports cards.

No need to defend it. No need to justify it. When the family whips out LRC at Christmas, you put your $3 on the table and play. Who cares? When your church hosts Night At The Races, you buy a table and support the cause. Who cares? When your nephew is selling 50/50 raffle tickets for his baseball league, you buy some tickets. Who cares? When your friends want to meet at a casino and grab dinner and play a little, you go. Who cares? When the guy at work is collecting $2 for the state lottery, you pay him. Who cares? You join a fantasy football league. Who cares?

If you happen to be one of the few who avoids all of the above, I feel bad for you, but you do your thing. Most of us gamble. Again, who cares? People are bending over backwards to try and explain why cards isn't gambling but I don't see the reason to have to justify it in the first place.

I agree. The thread was unnecessary.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Whether something is a sound economic decision is completely irrelevant to whether it's gambling. Gambling simply means you are purchasing a chance to get something.

I think one thing OP and many others have missed is the important distinction between gambling and illegal gambling.

No one is wagering money to only lose it or break even. The key aspect of gambling and what drives the business is the potential for financial reward.

And that's why the hyper emphasis on the value of cards in the modern hobby makes it more like gambling than ever before. The game of chance in opening product was always there, but now the financial stakes are higher than ever.

[Cracktoast]

Originally Posted by Twalk1975

I'm going to feel like a degenerate now any time I purchase a bottle of soda where I can win a free t-shirt if I get the lucky cap. Those bottles also all have a "no purchase necessary" disclaimer on them.

#Thanks Topps

Most of you whipper snappers are too young but I remember back in the early 90's Coke supposedly hid money inside of Coke cans as some type of promotion. People were wasting so much coke it wasn't even funny. They would pop the top so to speak and if money didn't pop up they just threw it away or poured it out.

The MagiCan promotion began on May 7, 1990, and ended on May 31. A spring-loaded tab dispensed real U.S. money or a gift certificate redeemable for trips or merchandise. In this promotion, some Coca-Cola cans had cash prizes or gift certificates inside instead of Coca-Cola.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Why does anyone care? Is this some puritanical forum where a few gamblers have to justify their actions to the elders?

We all gamble. State lotteries, 50/50 raffles, casinos, sports books, fantasy sports leagues, "Night At The Races", baby pools, Survivor leagues, Pick Em tournaments, white elephant gift exchanges, LRC, and yes, sports cards.

No need to defend it. No need to justify it. When the family whips out LRC at Christmas, you put your $3 on the table and play. Who cares? When your church hosts Night At The Races, you buy a table and support the cause. Who cares? When your nephew is selling 50/50 raffle tickets for his baseball league, you buy some tickets. Who cares? When your friends want to meet at a casino and grab dinner and play a little, you go. Who cares? When the guy at work is collecting $2 for the state lottery, you pay him. Who cares? You join a fantasy football league. Who cares?

If you happen to be one of the few who avoids all of the above, I feel bad for you, but you do your thing. Most of us gamble. Again, who cares? People are bending over backwards to try and explain why cards isn't gambling but I don't see the reason to have to justify it in the first place.

I completely agree. I wouldn’t really stress if anyone here thinks you’re a degenerate or not. It wouldn’t cost me any sleep.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Because normally I can get my team for under $10 dlvd for a new product box break.

Buying the base cards alone with shipping and taxes would be around the same price and this way fellow clectors get to get their teams just as cheap.

Sometimes it way less than the $10 mark when other teams get bid way up. I have gotten my team for $2-3 dlvd.

Just because your primary reason for buying into breaks is to build out your collection, doesn't mean it isn't gambling. You don't know what you're getting beyond the team name -- the cards could fall into a wide range of values. So, you're getting a chance at "winning" a prize that is valued beyond the price you paid.

Casual gamblers generally don't expect to win big or come out ahead, but they like the thrill of possibly doing so. To them, gambling is entertainment. This is similar to your logic of buying low-end team slots in breaks to build out your collection -- you don't expect to get a big return, but you like having the possibility.