Fanatics keeps on raising prices, yet people continue to buy....why?

[mfw13]

So...this post/thread is prompted by an exchange I had with a fellow collector....

It's pretty clear by now that Fanatics is raising prices across the board on just about every product....Archives came out yesterday at $130 a box....a product that used to pretty consistently release at $65-75 a box.

Yet people (and I'm NOT talking just about breakers/gamblers) seem to be falling over themselves backwards to buy just about anything Fanatics releases at just about any price point.

Now obviously there are going to be some people who are wealthier and/or less price-sensitive than others. For them, the pleasure they get from opening wax is worth it, even knowing that they are highly likely to lose money doing so. From that perspective, it's no different than paying for an experience (going out to dinner, seeing a movie/cultural performance) that will deliver no value once the event is over. So buying a case knowing that you are likely going to lose several hundred dollars on it is no different than blowing $200-300 going to a MLB baseball game or Broadway show.

However, the flip side is that those who are less price-sensitive do not raise prices just for themselves....they raise prices for everybody by allowing producers/manufacturers to sell at higher prices, thus making it more difficult for others to force prices downwards.

An analogy that occurs to me is the fact that consumer discretionary spending has remained high at the same time everyone is complaining through the nose about inflation. Logic says that if people were truly being bothered by inflation, consumer discretionary spending would decrease. But perhaps it's simply the fact that people who are less price-sensitive have so much more spending power than people who are more price-sensitive that they're the ones setting market prices even though they numerically might be in the minority.

It's easy to simply blame breakers/gamblers, but I think it's actually a bit more complex than that.

Thoughts?

[Poorboy]

Sorry boss I just buy singles…..
Others have said some healthy competition would help
Things….

[nothinbefore]

Originally Posted by Poorboy

Sorry boss I just buy singles…..
Others have said some healthy competition would help
Things….

Let the Rippers Rip while we catch the dip

[eastbayak]

FB (Meta) shares are ~$621 per. A little more than 2 years ago, they were sub-$100 per. Point being, a lot has changed over the past couple years.

Some people have disposable income whereas others don't. Of those with disposable income, some have more than others. And, of those without disposable income, some still purchase wax because they enjoy/have a gambling problem.

Pretty straightforward.

If you're upset with increased wax prices (which is unlikely to change for the unforeseeable future), just find a job that pays more. If you don't have the skills for such jobs, start training for them. Or, even easier, just buy wax at MSRP (or slightly over) and flip some to those who pay premiums on them. Then you can rip/hold wax for free (maybe even realize a gain too).

Hermanos might get hurt in the process but they don't really participate in the hobby anymore.

[NYRE2PECT]

Rippers Rip, Flippers Flip, and Dippers Dip?

[hermanotarjeta]

Fanatics is simply taking advantage of the market and being smart about it - you can always start with the highest prices then lower them if the product is not selling. If they sell out at a lower price, they would be angry at themselves for leaving too much money on the table.

The divide between the rich and the poor is at the greatest point in history, you need to have expendable wealth to purchase cards and those buying now for the most part are well off.

It is however a huge set-up for a huge tank in prices if demand all of sudden falls off the cliff.

The wealthiest buyers in our market? Brings us back to breakers and their degenerate johns. It’s still the overwhelming force that has driven prices northwards. Box flipper bois should get some credit as well, driving up prices for everyone. Then again, they will tell you to evolve with the times or find a better job. It’s funny, however, being that most box flipper bois are still struggling to get by at the Golden Arches and telling you to get a better job.

[Crosby 87]

What did you think they meant by 10x the hobby?

[eastbayak]

For what it's worth, $130 per Topps baseball wax is NOTHING like $500-$1000 per Panini basketball wax, especially when the ROI for the latter is already worse (%/absolute) than the former.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by Crosby 87

What did you think they meant by 10x the hobby?

10x more crybabies?!

[RainCityShecks]

Because some people can afford it and like to collect cards/rip wax. Others who cannot will do something else I'm sure (move to singles, etc).

I don't see a revolt coming, if that's what you're trying to drum up.

[seanbros55]

I really miss the joy/rush of ripping through a case, and sorting all that bass (I know, I'm a sicko).

I went from 9 cases in 2018, down to I think 3-4 in 2019, with just a few over 2020-2023. I bought some 2022 Update and Heritage High to chase Julio and Bobby.

The last case I bought was 2023 S1 and that will be the last case I buy until Fanatics is forced to make drastic changes or sells Topps. The box and case prices are untenable for me - the price to value ratio is so completely out of whack, that Fanatics wont get another penny of my money for the forseeable future.

All singles for me nowadays. I wish it wasnt so, I sure did love opening boxes...

#BoycottFanatics

[Poorboy]

It doesn’t help that you get a product plagued by quality control
And collation issues from what I have read ?

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

The truth is something I’ve been saying for a long while now, but no one wants to hear or acknowledge: Fantastics still isn’t charging enough!

Whether it’s because of breakers, gamblers, collectors, sellers, flippers, bots, Goldin, whoever or whatever is irrelevant. They keep selling out of every new product they release in a timely manner. That means it’s too cheap. I know that makes some people here angry, especially the ones who are priced out, but it’s basic economics.

How will we know when they’re charging enough? When something like Gilded, or Cosmic, or Dynasty just sits there on the website for a while. When people don’t post on here about being bummed their pre-order attempt failed, when breaker slots go unfilled, when we see clearance blasters at Target again, etc.

[rms13]

Supply and demand. There is obviously still demand so they'll keep raising prices every year. Just wait until they have the monopoly with NFL, NBA and WWE and they control pricing for pretty much everything in the hobby.

[Poorboy]

Originally Posted by seanbros55

I really miss the joy/rush of ripping through a case, and sorting all that bass (I know, I'm a sicko).

I went from 9 cases in 2018, down to I think 3-4 in 2019, with just a few over 2020-2023. I bought some 2022 Update and Heritage High to chase Julio and Bobby.

The last case I bought was 2023 S1 and that will be the last case I buy until Fanatics is forced to make drastic changes or sells Topps. The box and case prices are untenable for me - the price to value ratio is so completely out of whack, that Fanatics wont get another penny of my money for the forseeable future.

All singles for me nowadays. I wish it wasnt so, I sure did love opening boxes...

#BoycottFanatics

The house (fanatics) can’t win every single
Time
Even in Vegas folks get to win a little
Even accidentally lol

[hermanotarjeta]

Some people out there actually believe Klay Thompson could have replaced Michael Jordan and the Bulls would still have won six championships.

So it’s not surprising how delusional people can get when buying wax.

There are people having the worst takes in history and there are people grossly overpaying for wax, because of organic cerebral issues.

[awz50]

People will continue to buy until they do not (price becomes unmanageable, product sucks, etc).

Its human nature to want the next shiny thing, some people want it more then others and they will pay no matter the price. I personally only buy singles as losing my a** on wax bums me out.

[awz50]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

The truth is something I’ve been saying for a long while now, but no one wants to hear or acknowledge: Fantastics still isn’t charging enough!

Whether it’s because of breakers, gamblers, collectors, sellers, flippers, bots, Goldin, whoever or whatever is irrelevant. They keep selling out of every new product they release in a timely manner. That means it’s too cheap. I know that makes some people here angry, especially the ones who are priced out, but it’s basic economics.

How will we know when they’re charging enough? When something like Gilded, or Cosmic, or Dynasty just sits there on the website for a while. When people don’t post on here about being bummed their pre-order attempt failed, when breaker slots go unfilled, when we see clearance blasters at Target again, etc.

Interesting take on this and you are not wrong..

[patchgenie]

there is a chance for some BIG hits! you don't want to miss out!

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by mfw13

It's pretty clear by now that Fanatics is raising prices across the board on just about every product....Archives came out yesterday at $130 a box....a product that used to pretty consistently release at $65-75 a box.

When was it $65-75 a box? Give a time frame. And then think about some major world events that may have happened that caused a shift in the sports card world.

Prices were going up well before Fanatics got involved.

[Poorboy]

There was a time when a wax
Box was less than 20.00
No “hits” except the cardboard cards
I’ll go yell at some clouds now lol

[msink28]

Fanatics has had success converting sports card purchases from collecting to gambling. Both Fanatics and Panini have made concerted efforts to reduce the transparency of the odds (at least you *can* still find odds for Topps products though) so people have a harder time calculating any type of EV for a break.

[ATLOTP]

I've been buying singles. A Gunnar Henderson SGC 9.5 Brooklyn back? Same cost as a box. Braylon Payne true blue Bowman 1st auto? Same cost as the Brewers in a case break. Prices will coast back to normal if everyone stops ripping. 2024 Bowman Draft Hobby is down to $460 a box on ebay. I think these products will get cheaper.

[dodgerfanjohn]

So a few things.

Every year I used to collect master sets plus other stuff of:

Heritage
Allen & Ginter
Allen & Ginter X
Archives
Archives Snapshots
A factory set of Flagship along with buying a set of update as well

In 2020 Archives was horrible. Horrible collation, horrible long odds to hit something decent, horrible time collecting the inserts. I actually didnt ever come close to completing the master set. This was after pulling a Soto and Vlad auto in 2019 and a Carlton Fisk and Ozzie Smith magazine cover auto. That was in a handful of hobby boxes. Needless to say I stopped collecting Archives after 2021, with the nail in the coffin being no more "special" inserts (ie, Will Ferrell, Heavy Metal, Sandlot, Bull Durham, etc)

At this point I think Archives is a bad product and I think it has been for about 4 years now.

But as far as rising prices, thats a different story. First off inflation is off the charts, of course depending on where you reside. California is ridiculous and I can't believe people just dismiss it because of political cognitive dissonance. I stopped eating lunch out in Downtown LA where I work after I went to subway for lunch and my footlong sub was $16 (no add ons). Its funny because wife and I stopped on vacation at a McDonalds in Montana and our breakfast that would have run over $20 in Los Angeles was under $8. Average salary in Los Angeles area is currently over $70K a year and as high as $92K a year depending on source (and its even higher in your neck of the woods) . Lets not get into the notion of adult kids making this money and living with mom and dad and having essentially all of it as disposable income.

So thats one factor, though it doesn't fully explain things. But theres something else that does. There clearly is a higher ceiling to the market. This is evidenced by how well stuff sells on the secondary market. Fanatics had this chunk as a business model before they even bought Topps. Sell to what the market will bear...all the way to that point. Toss in a carrot to lead the masses to it (ie Debut patch cards, 2 autos in A&G X, etc).

So thats where we are. Your perception and my perception of what market should be has no relevance at all. All that matters is can Fanatics figure out what market is. Personally, I buy less than I did 3 years ago. Theres no incentive for me to buy. I still have only bought 2 megas of Heritage this year, when Target had a sale/coupons that came out to around $30 a box shipped. Simply put, I'm not paying $80+ for a hobby box of Heritage. As I said I dropped Archives a few years ago, Fanatics took care of Archives Snapshots for me, I missed out on A&G X this year and happily did well in breaks of it(My first and probably last breaks ever) and buying a near complete set on ebay.

So I have spend far less on unopened wax this year...a case of Allen & Ginter, 4 boxes of Heritage mini(at $55 that was a steal), 2 Megas of Heritage, one box of A&G X I just found at a steep discount, a mega holiday box I got as a gift on Christmas (this one was fun if not exactly profitable) and a factory set I also got as a Christmas gift. This after spending $4K plus the last few years, I spent less than half that.

But clearly people are buying and Fanatics SHOULD raise prices to the point where the market will bear.

[dodgerfanjohn]

Retitle this thread "Old guys shaking their fist at the clouds".