Mitch Marner?

[ThatGuyPal]

As an outsider and someone who owns zero of his cards, why does he seem to get no hobby and to be honest real-life love? He's Canadian, on the Leafs, and puts up points, what's wrong?

He's a ghost when it comes to mentions on here, compared to even guys I'd consider less-skilled and even hear Toronto fans want him gone each year lol just wondering if there's a reason as I said I don't follow his career.

[stoopid]

Falls into same bucket as some of the players discussed in this active thread: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1581382

Marner, Nylander, and Tavares are all in Matthews shadow. IMO Matthews is generational, so that seems fair. Nylander had 98 points last season and zero Hart votes. Marner got 99 points a few seasons ago but only managed 13th in Hart voting. Tavares hasn't received any Hart votes since 2018-19, and has never won any awards.

Matthews could win a few more Hart trophies and even a Selkie before he's done. Difference between "Hall of Very Good" and HoF candidates perfectly illustrated. I bet all 4 eventually get into the Hall if all their careers last long enough (Tavares has likely accumulated enough counting stats already), but from a hobby standpoint only Matthews will be collected like Gretzky, Crosby, Lemieux, Ovechkin, Yzerman, Roy, Orr, Esposito, Howe, Brodeur, and others decades after their career is over. True GOATs.

[slightlyrounded]

Originally Posted by stoopid

Falls into same bucket as some of the players discussed in this active thread: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1581382

Marner, Nylander, and Tavares are all in Matthews shadow. IMO Matthews is generational, so that seems fair. Nylander had 98 points last season and zero Hart votes. Marner got 99 points a few seasons ago but only managed 13th in Hart voting. Tavares hasn't received any Hart votes since 2018-19, and has never won any awards.

Matthews could win a few more Hart trophies and even a Selkie before he's done. Difference between "Hall of Very Good" and HoF candidates perfectly illustrated. I bet all 4 eventually get into the Hall if all their careers last long enough (Tavares has likely accumulated enough counting stats already), but from a hobby standpoint only Matthews will be collected like Gretzky, Crosby, Lemieux, Ovechkin, Yzerman, Roy, Orr, Esposito, Howe, Brodeur, and others decades after their career is over. True GOATs.

Agree he’s in Matthews shadow, but in Marner’s case he’s literally made Matthews the player he is. Would love to see Marner on another team as an experiment. I think his production would continue and Matthews would fall. He’s a great player and the only Leaf I cheer for (and collect)

[cbeauch87]

On top of the things listed above, he also has the label of not being a playoff performer. He scores at a .335 goals per game pace in the regular season, but a .193 pace in the playoffs.

A big time playoff run both team wise and individual stats wise would do his hobby love well.

[OGColl]

Is he on the same level of interest as Panarin? Is he this generations Dionne or Oates? Is he perhaps on the level of Kurri?

I think if the Leafs were to win a cup, and Marner was a true factor in that win (a glorious goal on the OT Cup winner) and perhaps was "the guy" that playoff year, then the hobby would "discover" him and a whole bunch of folks will be after everything with image of him on it.

Otherwise, and especially if he gets traded, his hobby love and values will meander. The multiple team aspect would really put a dent on things too.

[ThatGuyPal]

Originally Posted by stoopid

Falls into same bucket as some of the players discussed in this active thread: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1581382

Marner, Nylander, and Tavares are all in Matthews shadow. IMO Matthews is generational, so that seems fair. Nylander had 98 points last season and zero Hart votes. Marner got 99 points a few seasons ago but only managed 13th in Hart voting. Tavares hasn't received any Hart votes since 2018-19, and has never won any awards.

Matthews could win a few more Hart trophies and even a Selkie before he's done. Difference between "Hall of Very Good" and HoF candidates perfectly illustrated. I bet all 4 eventually get into the Hall if all their careers last long enough (Tavares has likely accumulated enough counting stats already), but from a hobby standpoint only Matthews will be collected like Gretzky, Crosby, Lemieux, Ovechkin, Yzerman, Roy, Orr, Esposito, Howe, Brodeur, and others decades after their career is over. True GOATs.

Very good explanation thanks, I forgot Nylander is another one right there optic wise with Marner but he gets a *tiny* bit more love imo, could be because Sweden has less options to cheer for than Canada so could be Swedish fans making up the difference. Tavares is a top-tier player no disrespect at all but I'd put him slightly behind the other two.

I get the Matthews love for sure, I'm just kind of surprised since he's American (willing to admit I didn't know this until about five years ago lol) there isn't more national pride support for Marner lol I thought Canadian hockey fans liked to root for their own. This post reminded me everyone but Tavares will be in the 4 Nations coming up, will be cool to see them all compete together on three separate teams and what numbers they put up. It could be improved but that's one cool thing about 4 Nations I guess as traditional all-star some of these guys would still end up on the same team.

[JanuaryRains]

If anything, I think Marner has pretty strong values for a guy whose biggest thing is being on the Leafs. Never been in any Hart or Art Ross conversations, gets points but has a horrific playoff rep, just flat out not a top 5 guy and usually those are the only guys who command value in the long-ish term. Even then, all the money usually ends up concentrating in the top 1-2 guys from every generation. Compare Crosby/Ovi values vs. Kane or Malkin, right?

In real life - definitely feel like its more of a casual Canadian hockey fan thing to support any and all Canadians? Could be wrong on that though. Besides, Marner's rep at this point is the guy who does stuff in the regular season but is too soft in the playoffs - your perennial Leafs choker. Had the bad contract negotiations too which soured some Leafs fans permanently + if you're getting paid 10+ million and choke in the playoffs? Ouch.

He's a star player in a hobby that only really values the true superstars and/or the shiniest new toy.

[stoopid]

Originally Posted by JanuaryRains

He's a star player in a hobby that only really values the true superstars and/or the shiniest new toy.

Yup, this is 100% true across all sports/collectibles.

[ThatGuyPal]

Originally Posted by JanuaryRains

If anything, I think Marner has pretty strong values for a guy whose biggest thing is being on the Leafs. Never been in any Hart or Art Ross conversations, gets points but has a horrific playoff rep, just flat out not a top 5 guy and usually those are the only guys who command value in the long-ish term. Even then, all the money usually ends up concentrating in the top 1-2 guys from every generation. Compare Crosby/Ovi values vs. Kane or Malkin, right?

In real life - definitely feel like its more of a casual Canadian hockey fan thing to support any and all Canadians? Could be wrong on that though. Besides, Marner's rep at this point is the guy who does stuff in the regular season but is too soft in the playoffs - your perennial Leafs choker. Had the bad contract negotiations too which soured some Leafs fans permanently + if you're getting paid 10+ million and choke in the playoffs? Ouch.

He's a star player in a hobby that only really values the true superstars and/or the shiniest new toy.

You're acting like he's a scrub lol I'm not disagreeing with your points but I said they like to support Canadians, I wouldn't put Marner in the "any and all Canadians" convo like he's some third string defenceman.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

Agree he’s in Matthews shadow, but in Marner’s case he’s literally made Matthews the player he is. Would love to see Marner on another team as an experiment. I think his production would continue and Matthews would fall. He’s a great player and the only Leaf I cheer for (and collect)

Matthews was the Bryce Harper of ther NHL, everyone knew he was a generational talent and was going to produce. That's like saying Pippen made Jordan who he was.....no, MJ still produced but he did help them win and become a champion though once he was added. We'll see if Toronto can do that with these two.

[bp06km13]

Originally Posted by stoopid

Falls into same bucket as some of the players discussed in this active thread: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1581382

Marner, Nylander, and Tavares are all in Matthews shadow. IMO Matthews is generational, so that seems fair. Nylander had 98 points last season and zero Hart votes. Marner got 99 points a few seasons ago but only managed 13th in Hart voting. Tavares hasn't received any Hart votes since 2018-19, and has never won any awards.

Matthews could win a few more Hart trophies and even a Selkie before he's done. Difference between "Hall of Very Good" and HoF candidates perfectly illustrated. I bet all 4 eventually get into the Hall if all their careers last long enough (Tavares has likely accumulated enough counting stats already), but from a hobby standpoint only Matthews will be collected like Gretzky, Crosby, Lemieux, Ovechkin, Yzerman, Roy, Orr, Esposito, Howe, Brodeur, and others decades after their career is over. True GOATs.

He's probably borderline generational if not falling a bit short of that mark. He's about a PPG player this year and falls well short of a PPG in his playoff career. One thing that the other players you mentioned all have is a high degree of playoff success (most with multiple Cups and Conn Smythe trophies).