2024-25 NBA MVP Thread

[drobfan8]

At the end of the day, as it stands, Shai is the MVP.

Numbers are cool and all, but winning is what matters.

Jokic will have to get his team a but higher than 6th in the west to win it again. Plus he doesn't care about the award,

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

At the end of the day, as it stands, Shai is the MVP.

Numbers are cool and all, but winning is what matters.

Jokic will have to get his team a but higher than 6th in the west to win it again. Plus he doesn't care about the award,

it's because winning matters that Jokić is the likely 1st pick in a hypothetical draft for this season, ergo the mvp under common sense understanding

you OTOH spout opinions without caring to really debate them

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

thaughts?

Originally Posted by tjforce

Any more info on how to interpret this? Is it taking into consideration what we've seen so far this season>

explained here: https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO/

EPM and DPM are the top 2 most trusted (least untrusted?) metrics among GM-types: https://hoopshype.com/lists/advanced...res-analytics/

And yes, the measures are updated close to daily during the season.

[GOATcards]

How rare is a DPM improvement so steep at such an age (26) like with SGA

40-point triple-double from Giannis, pretty nice
(I think Joker had a 49-point 3D in a '22-23 game*)

Joker had a mere 28/13/11 with 5 TO in the last game, isn't that like a 30th percentile performance from Joker this season. Anyway, he's down to like 62% in the B-Ref Tracker

* and let's not forget that 60/20/10 from Lulu

[GOATcards]

Vegas Insider site has Joker's odds getting even closer to +100 in the past day in spite of his team's loss (to the dreadful-on-average Wizards, without Murray and Gordon) and a 11-10 record. What might these bettors know that we don't?

Jokic is the likeliest test case for the claim that a player (in this era) has to be on a high-ranking team to be MVP. I think the claim is dumb on its face and a pitiful excuse for denying a player the award. There's only so much a player can do with scrubs, and this illustrates what I think should be the key point of any MVP discussion:

Which player is the one you'd pick first to have on a team?

If that criteria isn't explicitly in there and up front, then the MVP "analysis" is a disservice. Whatever other criteria are involved, this has to be the question to begin and end with.

Pretty tired of the sophistry from Jokic's detractors, the gloves should be off already with them.

Anyway, he got MVP back in '22 on a 6th-seeded team because he was the answer to the question basically, and as a matter of luck I guess there wasn't a lesser but better-surrounded-with-talent player with a much higher record. SGA might be that player this year and yet somehow the markets just moved closer to Jokic. Was it the 56-16-8 and Joker already proving he can win if he's got enough talent around him, and more people having tired of the stupid sophistry?

I'm pretty sure I could get ChatGPT to agree on all this just by drawing from the zeitgeist and filtering out the noise through probing prompts.

If someone tries to press a case for another player as MVP, just turn the tables on their butts and ask them why they'd pick that player over Jokic for their team.

Why this smashmouth framing isn't widely used already, I dunno. The pushback against the sophistry and stupidity was groping toward that framing/formulation. No more quarter for the intellectual miscreants!

That's the only way to put the candidates on a fair/level playing field for MVP consideration. Arguers then actually have to show that the player they pick lifts their team more than any other player could, meaning actually demonstrating their capability of recognizing VALUE in a player. That rules out 80% of arguers from the get-go? Good! Tough for them! Let them lift their argumentative game before they're allowed back into consideration. A win-win

strain is Permanent Zkittles (or is it Chimera)

[Torro]

Hard to see anyone else than Jokic winning the MVP, his stats is crazy, but Denver not doing so well.. Has there ever been an MVP from team that did not even reach playoffs? (not saying that Denver will not make it)

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Torro

Hard to see anyone else than Jokic winning the MVP, his stats is crazy, but Denver not doing so well.. Has there ever been an MVP from team that did not even reach playoffs? (not saying that Denver will not make it)

Kareem is the only player to do it.

[jcardstore]

Jokic is so far ahead of the rest of the league there's really nobody else with a compelling MVP case.

[daeve]

Tracker update since we're a quarter thru the season.

Joker ~68%
Shai ~12%
Tatum ~6%
Giannis ~4%
Luka ~3%

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Jokic is so far ahead of the rest of the league there's really nobody else with a compelling MVP case.

Shai's the best player on the best team, has played every game and it's putting up 30-6-5 with good defense.

The problem is that Joker is having the best regular season in modern history. Only an injury or the Nuggets not making the playoffs are the only way he doesn't get it.

[tjforce]

So question that may not even matter by the time anyone reads this:

If OKC plays Milwaukee in the finals of the In Season Tournament, should the performances of SGA and Giannis in that game matter in the race for MVP (Ignore Jokic for the sake of this discussion)?

[ninjabum87]

If Milwaukee wins the IST then its the most important metric of the season outside the playoffs. If they dont then its just a meaningless game and should have little to no bearing on the race.

[RKH916]

If all things in terms of individual performance remain consistent throughout the season, then the only thing stopping Jokic from winning the award is the 50 win barrier.

If he hits that conventional cut-off, its his

[Spacemanspif]

I don’t know why everyone is just assuming that what he’s doing is sustainable. He’s playing 3 more minutes and taking 3 more shots per game than he ever has. At some point I feel like they’ll have to start resting him more, or he may wear down and will take a hit to his efficiency

[Nomad]

Every time I see a Jokic bump for MVP, and I know he is very good, it comes off like someone touting the Cybertruck.

[cardozo]

Originally Posted by tjforce

So question that may not even matter by the time anyone reads this:

If OKC plays Milwaukee in the finals of the In Season Tournament, should the performances of SGA and Giannis in that game matter in the race for MVP (Ignore Jokic for the sake of this discussion)?

Quite possibly, it’s all about durability.

[RBKSNIPZ]

Take Shai off the Thunder they still win games.

Take Jokic off the Nuggets they are worse then the shanghai sharks.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by tjforce

So question that may not even matter by the time anyone reads this:

If OKC plays Milwaukee in the finals of the In Season Tournament, should the performances of SGA and Giannis in that game matter in the race for MVP (Ignore Jokic for the sake of this discussion)?

Short term, yes.

But it's unlikely to matter that much because it's probably gonna be one of them vs Jokic for MVP. I don't think the Cup final performance for the winner will matter that much if that's the case.

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

At the end of the day, as it stands, Shai is the MVP.

Numbers are cool and all, but winning is what matters.

Jokic will have to get his team a but higher than 6th in the west to win it again. Plus he doesn't care about the award,

This is some amazing bait

Joker is the mvp and it isn't close

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by RBKSNIPZ

Take Shai off the Thunder they still win games.

Take Jokic off the Nuggets they are worse then the shanghai sharks.

Ah yes, nothing better than working off hot takes from the magical fairyland where nobody knows.

He's leading them without Chet also.

SGA is the guy that constantly gets them an easy 2 whej they need it.

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

This is some amazing bait

Joker is the mvp and it isn't close

Meh.

My opinion is that the best players on the best teams should win the award.

Jokic has said he doesn't care.

Shai is leading his team to the best in the West and also sacrificing numbers for the teams success.

I'm just not sure why you'd give it to Jokic. I doubt he gets the votes. You'd have to explain to me why Shai doesn't deserve it compared to why Jokic does.

[boxbuster7]

The Thunder are one of the deepest teams in the league. Chet literally got injured and they are still the top team. They are loaded. Jokic has nobody. The guy is single handedly keeping his team in contention.

Jokic is the all time leader in BPM - next up...michael jordan, and lebron james

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

The Thunder are one of the deepest teams in the league. Chet literally got injured and they are still the top team. They are loaded. Jokic has nobody. The guy is single handedly keeping his team in contention.

Jokic is the all time leader in BPM - next up...michael jordan, and lebron james

Oh yeah, that's why nobody predicted them to be the 1 seed last year.

It's almost as if there are multiple MVP candidates each year.

if you've bet on Jokic, all the best.

Could I change my pick? Yes. But right now I'll give it to the guy that is in 1st and is also deserving.

Numbers are overrated. Wins is what matters.

[kipgen]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

The Thunder are one of the deepest teams in the league. Chet literally got injured and they are still the top team. They are loaded. Jokic has nobody. The guy is single handedly keeping his team in contention.

Jokic is the all time leader in BPM - next up...michael jordan, and lebron james

I'd still put Celtics above the Thunder

Thunder are totally unproven in the playoffs

[boxbuster7]

That isn't the discussion ^ and I'm talking western conference only

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by kipgen

I'd still put Celtics above the Thunder

Thunder are totally unproven in the playoffs

Exactly.

I feel for Tatum who actually will never win an MVP in his current set up. But he'll win titles. Which ultimately is what counts.

Not putting up numbers as a 6th seed barely over .500