What’s going on with TAG?

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Yes that is the master plan, caught us.

He literally said that.

I’m sorry it upsets you, but it is what it is and it’s as clear as day. That’s just part of the hobby.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

He literally said that.

I’m sorry it upsets you, but it is what it is and it’s as clear as day. That’s just part of the hobby.

Caught red handed. Only way to increase market shares is to pull the troglodytes from the blowout card forum over to discord

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Caught red handed. Only way to increase market shares is to pull the troglodytes from the blowout card forum over to discord

Are you insane?

[Ataraxia]

Ah, yes.... TAG.

I do think that some people come into these threads with as much ammo as humanly possible to get the back and forth dialogue happening each week (from what I've seen from reading this thread, at least). Let's see if I can voice an opinion without too many losing their heads over it?

Praise/Commendations:

1. Their slabs are the best in the industry. CGC gets very close, but there's no other slab that gives the card the center stage. If PSA updated their label and did away with their frosted slabs, this would be a different story.
2. The "machine-assisted" grading would be a game changer, if the technology allowed them to grade thicker cards, relic/memorabilia, or older cards.
3. Transparency is king. This is probably why there are a number of "TAG Kool-Aid Drinkers" that comment here and on Reddit. Knowing why your card is graded a certain way and having the information/data to correlate to it goes a long, long way. Nothing sucks more than to get a card back that's visually impeccable, but something caused it to be a 3-5.
4. They are trying to be more relevant through marketing campaigns. Between collaborations with well-known athletes to card shows, TAG is ramping up their marketing expenses in hopes that more people will see what they have to offer. It's something that's required in 2024 with the landscape of graders.

Criticisms:

1. TAG has become rather stagnant in delivery over the past year. This means that while they've grown operationally, we're not seeing any value added in their product offerings.
2. To further the first point (^), they do need to solve "all of the things" that prevent people from grading with them (thicker cards, memorabilia, relics, Japanese TCG (all cards, not just the big ones), and older cards). Without that level of accessibility, people will be cautionary as they worry about sending in cards that will get rejected.
3. The whole "bootleg card with guided-AI art" thing rubs me the wrong way; especially considering the Cook brothers claim to be creatives. It was embarrassing to see that some of the original art had the classic AI "too many fingers" situation going on.
4. Their Customer Support is, to say the least, lacking. There have been a number of submissions that they've mislabeled and their CS gave the run around each and every time. It definitely ruins the "trust" side of the customer/product relationship there.
5. Fans of TAG do spend a little too much energy "advocating" on forums and Reddit. This leads to a lot of the "outside world" being overtly negative or critical of TAG because they're knee-jerking one extreme with the polar opposite.
6. They've lost their purpose/mission. If you tracked through some of their earlier cameos or podcast appearances, they've made a significant amount of promises around their overall "vision" -- but once a mysterious amount of investors/collectors forced them to pivot a little, they've leaned all in to those folks without understanding the value they bring to the market.

Overall, I think TAG has a great product (DIG/DING Reports, consistent grading, and good looking slabs) but their lack of development and accessibility murders them. I do find the whole "oh but the bulk submitters/mystery packs" criticism laughable, considering every single grader on the planet has an abundance of both. In the same vein, the consistency of how much they're grading on a weekly/monthly basis is a bit frustrating and paints that they're not making much traction in the market overall.

Will I crack open my TAG slabs and submit them elsewhere? Doubtful. Do I think TAG could stand to make some real progress on those deliverables they've promised year over year? Absolutely. But some criticisms I've seen in this thread (so far, at least) are egregious and (often) disingenuous when viewed from the perspective of TAG's competitors suffering from the same or similar issue(s).

[Bowman1951]

My first ever post in this TAG thread so can't wait to get called out for the same thing over and over again.

But BIG TIME YIKES when 90% of your weekly business is only in Pokemon, it's pretty much over for the sports wing of your grading service. And of those Pokemon, as others have stated it's someone putting together mystery packs and probably getting a massively great deal on the volume they are putting through the system. Because without it, TAG would effectively be going under.

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by Bowman1951

My first ever post in this TAG thread so can't wait to get called out for the same thing over and over again.

But BIG TIME YIKES when 90% of your weekly business is only in Pokemon, it's pretty much over for the sports wing of your grading service. And of those Pokemon, as others have stated it's someone putting together mystery packs and probably getting a massively great deal on the volume they are putting through the system. Because without it, TAG would effectively be going under.

I would argue that this somewhat of a reductionist stance on a singular company, but I see where you're coming from. It's definitely not "big times yikes", though. This is more of one of those situations where TAG needs to "crap or get off the pot" when it comes to supporting sports cards. Much like my comment above - it's clear to me that they've lost their purpose and have doubled-down on letting the bulk submitters ruin their roadmap/product offering strategy.

Compared to other "small" grading companies, TAG is still hanging on in the top of that pile (internationally speaking, despite TAG being primarily North American). Be it that they're hanging on by a finger or two due to bulk submitters of TCG/Pokemon is somewhat irrelevant. People are still sending in sports cards (from the numbers posted, around 180-300 a week, on average) - so it's not "dead." The issue is the lack of accessibility across types of sports cards, which kills the desire to grade with TAG.

Personally, I have a lion's share of SP Authentic or thicker patch/auto cards that I would love to get graded - except PSA slabs are ugly as sin and TAG doesn't grade them. So instead, they just sit in a toploader in a binder for the team(s) in question (though, I am playing around with CGC, but think Beckett and SGC slabs aren't that great looking either). This is why TAG isn't getting more sports cards - there's too great of a barrier of entry and too many restrictions on what they can/cannot grade. It's a bummer when I can find the exact acetate card I want graded in their population report - but Customer Service tells me "Oh, that was for testing purposes and we do not grade those kinds of cards."

There are a lot of "forgotten" grading services that people prop up for any number of reasons and TAG may end up being one of them. The reality that I think all of us can agree on is that trust in the "Top 3/Top 4" is starting to wane across the market due to how inconsistent their grades are and how little transparency there is about the how/why your card received a grade. PSA/CGC/BGS/SGC all need to step up and improve their output (better reports, better notes (and free notes, not "you have to pay at least $149.99 for a three-word Grader's Note"), and better slabs that put the cards in the spotlight).

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Ah, yes.... TAG.

I do think that some people come into these threads with as much ammo as humanly possible to get the back and forth dialogue happening each week (from what I've seen from reading this thread, at least). Let's see if I can voice an opinion without too many losing their heads over it?

Praise/Commendations:

1. Their slabs are the best in the industry. CGC gets very close, but there's no other slab that gives the card the center stage. If PSA updated their label and did away with their frosted slabs, this would be a different story.
2. The "machine-assisted" grading would be a game changer, if the technology allowed them to grade thicker cards, relic/memorabilia, or older cards.
3. Transparency is king. This is probably why there are a number of "TAG Kool-Aid Drinkers" that comment here and on Reddit. Knowing why your card is graded a certain way and having the information/data to correlate to it goes a long, long way. Nothing sucks more than to get a card back that's visually impeccable, but something caused it to be a 3-5.
4. They are trying to be more relevant through marketing campaigns. Between collaborations with well-known athletes to card shows, TAG is ramping up their marketing expenses in hopes that more people will see what they have to offer. It's something that's required in 2024 with the landscape of graders.

Criticisms:

1. TAG has become rather stagnant in delivery over the past year. This means that while they've grown operationally, we're not seeing any value added in their product offerings.
2. To further the first point (^), they do need to solve "all of the things" that prevent people from grading with them (thicker cards, memorabilia, relics, Japanese TCG (all cards, not just the big ones), and older cards). Without that level of accessibility, people will be cautionary as they worry about sending in cards that will get rejected.
3. The whole "bootleg card with guided-AI art" thing rubs me the wrong way; especially considering the Cook brothers claim to be creatives. It was embarrassing to see that some of the original art had the classic AI "too many fingers" situation going on.
4. Their Customer Support is, to say the least, lacking. There have been a number of submissions that they've mislabeled and their CS gave the run around each and every time. It definitely ruins the "trust" side of the customer/product relationship there.
5. Fans of TAG do spend a little too much energy "advocating" on forums and Reddit. This leads to a lot of the "outside world" being overtly negative or critical of TAG because they're knee-jerking one extreme with the polar opposite.
6. They've lost their purpose/mission. If you tracked through some of their earlier cameos or podcast appearances, they've made a significant amount of promises around their overall "vision" -- but once a mysterious amount of investors/collectors forced them to pivot a little, they've leaned all in to those folks without understanding the value they bring to the market.

Overall, I think TAG has a great product (DIG/DING Reports, consistent grading, and good looking slabs) but their lack of development and accessibility murders them. I do find the whole "oh but the bulk submitters/mystery packs" criticism laughable, considering every single grader on the planet has an abundance of both. In the same vein, the consistency of how much they're grading on a weekly/monthly basis is a bit frustrating and paints that they're not making much traction in the market overall.

Will I crack open my TAG slabs and submit them elsewhere? Doubtful. Do I think TAG could stand to make some real progress on those deliverables they've promised year over year? Absolutely. But some criticisms I've seen in this thread (so far, at least) are egregious and (often) disingenuous when viewed from the perspective of TAG's competitors suffering from the same or similar issue(s).

Very well written and fair post.


I completely agree with point 3: transparency is king. Knowing exactly why a card received its grade is a major selling point for TAG. The DING report adds a level of trust and clarity that most grading companies simply don’t provide. Would PSA even have grader notes if it weren’t for TAG’s push with the DING report? Maybe, maybe not.

On the other hand, the "machine-assisted" aspect is definitely an issue. TAG was initially pitched as fully automated, but the need for oversight shows the technology is still a work in progress.

When it comes to slabs, I’d say TAG and CGC are pretty much identical in terms of quality, but the etched label gives TAG a modern, sleek look that many prefer. It’s subjective, of course, but to me, TAG’s design highlights the card better.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by Bowman1951

My first ever post in this TAG thread so can't wait to get called out for the same thing over and over again.

But BIG TIME YIKES when 90% of your weekly business is only in Pokemon, it's pretty much over for the sports wing of your grading service. And of those Pokemon, as others have stated it's someone putting together mystery packs and probably getting a massively great deal on the volume they are putting through the system. Because without it, TAG would effectively be going under.

You are right. Totally redundant post.

[Bowman1951]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

You are right. Totally redundant post.

Ironic, since that describes everything you’ve brought to this thread, over and over again.

[discodanman45]

A little gambling with "art" cards. Is TAG a grading company now or a card company?

https://taggrading.com/products/KDVPC

[ScattMan]

Redundant posts will continue until morale improves!

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

A little gambling with "art" cards. Is TAG a grading company now or a card company?

https://taggrading.com/products/KDVPC

I'll echo myself a little bit, while also going into greater detail:

These "art cards" that they're doing is greatly disingenuous to their customers and really exaggerate the "pump and dump" logic that they're been accused of. It's wild to me that they have so-called "creatives" in their leadership and they're so "anti-creative" when it comes to these "AI-Inspired/Guided" cards. The fact that they're unofficial and still playing into the FOMO serialization (à la Topps/Fanatics) is ridiculous.

I can understand the "AI-Guided" portrait cards since they're just erasing the background + running a few filters on the person + slapping a stock background on it - but these cards are just embarrassing. It's equally problematic that people genuinely do buy these "parody" cards to the point of TAG selling out - and I've seen 3ish of them on eBay already.

[discodanman45]

Mike Tyson Sues Australian Streetwear Brand Culture Kings
Jul 23 2021

Mike Tyson, the famous former boxer, has sued Australian streetwear brand Culture Kings and its founders. Mr Tyson alleges the respondents have engaged in misleading and deceptive conduct under the Australian Consumer Law for using his name, nicknames and likeness to sell t-shirts, without his permission. Mr Tyson alleges that Culture Kings’ t-shirts bear images of him, his name as well as his monikers “Iron Mike”, and “Kid Dynamite”.

Logan Paul loves him some lawsuits as well. Has he copyrighted his nickname, "Problem Child."

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Mike Tyson Sues Australian Streetwear Brand Culture Kings
Jul 23 2021

Mike Tyson, the famous former boxer, has sued Australian streetwear brand Culture Kings and its founders. Mr Tyson alleges the respondents have engaged in misleading and deceptive conduct under the Australian Consumer Law for using his name, nicknames and likeness to sell t-shirts, without his permission. Mr Tyson alleges that Culture Kings’ t-shirts bear images of him, his name as well as his monikers “Iron Mike”, and “Kid Dynamite”.

Logan Paul loves him some lawsuits as well. Has he copyrighted his nickname, "Problem Child."

Somewhat ironically - Mike Tyson doesn't own the copyright in the US for "Kid Dynamite." It's currently held by Jermane Britton.
Logan Paul is notorious for filing fake copyright/trademark violation claims on YouTube, but his authority/power only extends that far at the end of the day.

[collective]

Originally Posted by Bowman1951

My first ever post in this TAG thread so can't wait to get called out for the same thing over and over again.

But BIG TIME YIKES when 90% of your weekly business is only in Pokemon, it's pretty much over for the sports wing of your grading service. And of those Pokemon, as others have stated it's someone putting together mystery packs and probably getting a massively great deal on the volume they are putting through the system. Because without it, TAG would effectively be going under.

Mystery packs are never a good idea. TAG and CGC need to move on from these and focus on building a sustainable model for their sports side

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by collective

Mystery packs are never a good idea. TAG and CGC need to move on from these and focus on building a sustainable model for their sports side

Essentially, I think this is something that all graders in the current market has issues with. PSA isn't immune, it also helps that there's just SO MUCH VOLUME when it comes to PSA that it doesn't really matter. Someone could throw in 50,000 Mystery Pack submissions and nobody would bat an eye. It's just significantly more obvious when you're looking at a company's data in a vacuum and there's not enough volume to "bury" the lede.

With TAG, the issue is that they've formed fairly comprehensive partnerships through some of these mystery pack builders (like Poke-Collect) that they're letting the bulk submitters determine their overall operational route/product roadmap. For TAG being so small, it's easy as hell to spot even if you're a good 30,000ft in the air about grading (as long as you see the numbers). CGC, PSA, SGC, et. al have the same issues but the fact they've been in the market much longer allows some people to pull the wool over their eyes about it.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by collective

Mystery packs are never a good idea. TAG and CGC need to move on from these and focus on building a sustainable model for their sports side

Mystery packs aren’t an issue.

The issue for TAG is that TCG represents the largest, by a wide margin, percentage of their grading base. Of that large grading base, it is significantly mystery bag bulk submitters.

That’s not a sustainable business model. I think the plan is to hang around long enough to where there is more organic demand for their slabs.

[varjakpaul]

I’d agree that Mystery Packs are a *bit* of a concern - the majority of mystery product is dependent on chases, and primarily full of bulk and low-value cards - getting tens of thousands of cards out to collectors may not be great for the brand’s health of the majority are low-value filler

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Mystery packs aren’t an issue.

The issue for TAG is that TCG represents the largest, by a wide margin, percentage of their grading base. Of that large grading base, it is significantly mystery bag bulk submitters.

That’s not a sustainable business model. I think the plan is to hang around long enough to where there is more organic demand for their slabs.

What percentage of mystery packs make up TAG's grading base and how does that compare with the other companies? Where are you getting this data from?

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

What percentage of mystery packs make up TAG's grading base and how does that compare with the other companies? Where are you getting this data from?

You are insane.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

You are insane.

Thought so. Nothing to back up your statements.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Thought so. Nothing to back up your statements.

No it was a reference to when I showed you how idiotic you were and you tucked your tail.

If you want to engage with me, gotta own your idiocy first - otherwise that’s gonna be the response.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

No it was a reference to when I showed you how idiotic you were and you tucked your tail.

If you want to engage with me, gotta own your idiocy first - otherwise that’s gonna be the response.

Tucked my tail? You have a rich imagination.


I have no desire to engage with you. I just want to know what you are basing your claims off of, would love to see the data.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Tucked my tail? You have a rich imagination.


Like I said unfounded claims.

You are insane.

[KhalDrogo]

TAG only has one goal, as you all know. I hear there is momentum toward achieving that goal. Mystery pack partners are just to keep the lights on.