Upper Deck has lost Marvel to Fanatics.

[GFD18]

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

There is a very simple fix to that.

Nothing is "simple"

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by Rictor

30 cards out of a print run of millions...1 in 100,000 odds of pulling a Miller sketch? It's kind of like the odds of pulling a Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle cut auto out of Topps baseball when they throw a couple in there.

Also, those super hero autograph cards are super lame.

Agree wholeheartedly on the autograph cards. Spider-Man, Captain America, Wolverine, Iron Man, and all the rest are wasting time signing cards when they're supposed to be out saving the world?
C'mon, guys!!!

[Rictor]

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

There is a very simple fix to that.

There isn't an unlimited labor pool for low-paying warehouse jobs in Redmond, WA.

If COMC wants to tap into a larger labor pool and really grow, it would make more sense for them to relocate their warehouse to the Midwest. Besides labor being 50% cheaper, warehouse space is also much cheaper. Labor is usually the largest expense for any business though.

[BobCollects]

It sure seems like COMC doesn't want to improve service. Why would they? COMC has a captive audience willing to either pay more for faster shipping or wait months for the cheaper option.

Upper Deck losing the Marvel license may force COMC to change, though. The e-Pack to COMC pipeline has to make up the bulk of COMC sales for Marvel cards and losing those sales and the fees from those sales may take a huge bite out of COMC's bottom line.

[glorbgorb]

Originally Posted by Rictor

There isn't an unlimited labor pool for low-paying warehouse jobs in Redmond, WA.

If COMC wants to tap into a larger labor pool and really grow, it would make more sense for them to relocate their warehouse to the Midwest. Besides labor being 50% cheaper, warehouse space is also much cheaper. Labor is usually the largest expense for any business though.

You're telling me there aren't 10 people who would want a relatively easy job? 20 people? 50 people? Not much different on paper than an Amazon warehouse, and I'm pretty sure they have one of those in the area.

I don't know how many people COMC has to a) scan for ePack; b) scan for cards sent in (could be same team); c) pull cards; d) package cards for mailing. My point is they could beef up staff if they wanted to.

I said a couple of years ago that the only advantage COMC had over anyone that would want to move into that space was their relationship with UD. It's a relationship of necessity, as presumably UD thought it would be cheaper to ostensibly outsource the grunt work of scanning, collating, filing, and shipping. It will take some time, but for that relationship to stay where it has been UD needs to produce DC sets at the same rate as they did Marvel cards.

Of course this assumes UD really did lose Marvel. Still nothing official.

[HiltonL]

Originally Posted by Rictor

There isn't an unlimited labor pool for low-paying warehouse jobs in Redmond, WA.

If COMC wants to tap into a larger labor pool and really grow, it would make more sense for them to relocate their warehouse to the Midwest. Besides labor being 50% cheaper, warehouse space is also much cheaper. Labor is usually the largest expense for any business though.

COMC maintains multiple warehouses across North America. This isn't some rickety mom-and-pop operation with shelves full of 5-row shoeboxes in the cellar.

I'm not in any way related to COMC's operations, but I have a basic understanding of how retail fulfillment works.
-Warehouses being close to a shipping hub is imperative. Whether a USPS distribution center or a UPS/FedEx hub, shipping is very much core to this type of business. This goes for shipping both out AND in. (Despite our many experiences with late/delayed shipping from COMC)
-Not all labor is equal. COMC is headquartered in Redmond, so naturally corporate workers are there. But that's a small number of people compared to warehouse staff or overall headcount in this type of business. Not everybody who lives in Iowa/Nebraska/rural America wants to work in a warehouse, or a call/support center for that matter. Do the workers with the skills to operate the scanners want to work at your facility? Warehouse siting is not a willy-nilly process
-It's a short 40 minute drive around any part of the Puget Sound area to find acres and acres of warehouse buildings. I've noticed that my shipments have steadily moved southward from Redmond to Auburn to now Algona, probably as COMC outgrows existing warehouses

Your point of it being expensive to live and work in the PNW is very real. But overall I believe that COMC knows that siting warehouses near shipping centers and having higher paid but lower turnover workers a la Costco's employment model, pays very real long-term dividends in lowering the cost of operating the business

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by jdandns

Agree wholeheartedly on the autograph cards. Spider-Man, Captain America, Wolverine, Iron Man, and all the rest are wasting time signing cards when they're supposed to be out saving the world?
C'mon, guys!!!

You do have to admit, getting them all to sign is a pretty big deal. Spider and Cap seem like they would be good signers. Not sure on the other two.

[sketchopolix]

Spideys been signing for years. I have a card he signed at some event in the 90s

[sketchopolix]

Unauthenticated however

[Rictor]

Originally Posted by HiltonL

COMC maintains multiple warehouses across North America. This isn't some rickety mom-and-pop operation with shelves full of 5-row shoeboxes in the cellar.

I'm only aware of 2 warehouse locations: Canada and WA.

[Rictor]

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

You're telling me there aren't 10 people who would want a relatively easy job? 20 people? 50 people? Not much different on paper than an Amazon warehouse, and I'm pretty sure they have one of those in the area.

I don't know how many people COMC has to a) scan for ePack; b) scan for cards sent in (could be same team); c) pull cards; d) package cards for mailing. My point is they could beef up staff if they wanted to.

I said a couple of years ago that the only advantage COMC had over anyone that would want to move into that space was their relationship with UD. It's a relationship of necessity, as presumably UD thought it would be cheaper to ostensibly outsource the grunt work of scanning, collating, filing, and shipping. It will take some time, but for that relationship to stay where it has been UD needs to produce DC sets at the same rate as they did Marvel cards.

Of course this assumes UD really did lose Marvel. Still nothing official.

The majority of Upper Decks business is hockey. Losing that license would hurt them more than losing Marvel.

Amazon also has trouble hiring for their warehouses. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year in advertising trying to fill those jobs. They hire pretty much anyone that comes in. Around here, they start around the same pay as McDonalds...$15 an hour.

[finfangfan]

With the success of Topps UK Marvel Chrome, I am now thinking would Topps even need to acquire the US Marvel license?

What’s to stop them from releasing multiple Marvel sets under their UK license and through the magic of modern globalization having those cards find their way to US collectors anyway (much like the Marvel/Disney Chrome sets)?

Maybe the juice isn’t worth the squeeze for Fanatics to get the US Marvel license?

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

With the success of Topps UK Marvel Chrome, I am now thinking would Topps even need to acquire the US Marvel license?

If they want to make money, yes.

Originally Posted by finfangfan

What’s to stop them from releasing multiple Marvel sets under their UK license and through the magic of modern globalization having those cards find their way to US collectors anyway (much like the Marvel/Disney Chrome sets)?

What would stop them is they wouldn't be the beneficiaries of demand. Like the parcel costs and secondary market friction is going to eat into their margins as well as reseller overhead at the lowest and most expensive level. And if it's not at the level then ...

Originally Posted by finfangfan

Maybe the juice isn’t worth the squeeze for Fanatics to get the US Marvel license?

... Obviously these contracts aren't public but I'm guessing with how litigious things have been between fanatics and panini that UD would sue Fanatics if somehow containerships full of UK edition products were unloading on US shores. Given the uniqueness of territory split it's hard to look at, say, Series 1 MLB UK edition sales and draw any conclusions from what exists but if GTS (or like distributor) is selling UK Edition Marvel to any licensed retailer, I bet lawyers get paid.

[finfangfan]

I’m not saying that Fanatics would be embezzling cards from the UK to US. However, I’m noticing many US collectors are able to pretty easily get around the “UK-only” nature of the Disney and and now Marvel Chrome by having a 3rd party ship the “UK-only” cards/boxes/cases to them in the US. And in that scenario, through nothing nefarious on Fanatics part, they gain by strong initial sales of the product, not the secondary. As more “UK-only” Marvel/Disney products are released maybe the demand gets watered down, but for now at least it seems like a strong avenue for sales and US collectors (through a little extra effort) are still able to participate.

I even believe the release of Topps UK Marvel Chrome shortly after UD dropped Metal Avengers in the US caused the Metal set to lose much of its initial momentum.

[finfangfan]

Also… Upperdeck sells Marvel cards to UK users through ePack. Like the UD head has done an interview on a podcast with a guy from the UK and the fact that it’s pretty easy for UK buyers to buy Marvel cards on ePack was laughed away. Maybe the era of regional licenses for trading cards has become obsolete in our modern globalized world.

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

Also… Upperdeck sells Marvel cards to UK users through ePack. Like the UD head has done an interview on a podcast with a guy from the UK and the fact that it’s pretty easy for UK buyers to buy Marvel cards on ePack was laughed away. Maybe the era of regional licenses for trading cards has become obsolete in our modern globalized world.

I think we should just agree to disagree on this one. You'll never come close to the level of demands you would have with all available channels in the US.

[finfangfan]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

I think we should just agree to disagree on this one. You'll never come close to the level of demands you would have with all available channels in the US.

I think it’s a case of written word coming off more strongly than if we had a conversation. I totally think Fanatics will still get the US Marvel license… I just think it’s amusing that the Topps UK Marvel set is selling so well to US customers even in the absence of Fanatics having the US Marvel license … for now at least. Disney UK Topps Chrome also had strong sales to US customers.

[dd316]

Nature finds a way... and so will Marvel cards.

[glorbgorb]

My guess is that this UK release is simply to tide collectors over, and to jab the knife in UD's back.

Since we have zero details on the UD->Fanatics license move, who knows--maybe we'll see other sets released through this UK 'loophole' of sorts until they can produce/distribute in the US. They may keep some Topps UK stuff going, but I can't see them hanging everything on UK distribution once the license reverts. There's too many US-based breakers that they don't want to piss off by making it more expensive for them to obtain product.

[finfangfan]

“Loophole” is a good word for it. I don’t think it’s tough for a US card collector to get the UK stuff… and vice versa it’s not difficult for a UK consumer to magically create an ePack account and buy Marvel stuff through ePack even though the UK is not part of UD’s license… *nudge, nudge, wink, wink*.

And the UD rep has even acknowledged as much by appearing on the podcast of a UK Marvel fan who he knew was active on ePack,

I think regional trading card licenses are hard to enforce and maybe a relic of the past in todays global economy.

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

I think regional trading card licenses are hard to enforce and maybe a relic of the past in todays global economy.

You can think all you want but retail distribution in big box stores in the USA is not something UK epack sales or ShipMyCards come even close to touching.

I'm not misreading your words, you said "What’s to stop them from releasing multiple Marvel sets under their UK license and through the magic of modern globalization having those cards find their way to US collectors anyway (much like the Marvel/Disney Chrome sets)?"

What's to stop them? Well, the profitable money is made at the website of/five thousand Walmarts in the US with terrible pack odds. For every one serious collector willing to play some game with addresses on epack, how many kids are tugging at their mom's arm trying to get a Marvel Annual blaster?

It's laughable to repeatedly claim country distribution rights are worthless today because of some loophole you know about.

[finfangfan]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

You can think all you want but retail distribution in big box stores in the USA is not something UK epack sales or ShipMyCards come even close to touching.

I'm not misreading your words, you said "What’s to stop them from releasing multiple Marvel sets under their UK license and through the magic of modern globalization having those cards find their way to US collectors anyway (much like the Marvel/Disney Chrome sets)?"

What's to stop them? Well, the profitable money is made at the website of/five thousand Walmarts in the US with terrible pack odds. For every one serious collector willing to play some game with addresses on epack, how many kids are tugging at their mom's arm trying to get a Marvel Annual blaster?

It's laughable to repeatedly claim country distribution rights are worthless today because of some loophole you know about.

Dude… I’m saying I’m not arguing with you. My initial post was like a mom saying “why do I even bother to cook if you kids love McDonalds so much”.

I totally get that Fanatics will buy the Marvel US license. I’m just pointing out that they are having a great deal of success of selling Marvel to a US audience just by releasing a “UK only” Marvel set.

You are unhinged.

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

You are unhinged.

No, I'm not unhinged, I'm just on the wrong site.

[glorbgorb]

As a US-based collector, it's more about the shipping cost from the UK for singles. I'm not interested in boxes, but I won't pay more for shipping than the cost of the card. Same thing I run into with hockey cards, as a lot of purchases come from Canada.

So some of those low-end and unnumbered parallels may just have to wait to be crossed off my want list. In the meantime I'll wonder why there are two /99s, two /50s, and two /5 parallels in Marvel Chrome.

Topps UK Marvel Chrome base
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Refractor
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Spider Web Refractor (/399)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Blue Wave (/150)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Green Refractor (/99)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Green Gamma Ray Wave (/99)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Purple Refractor (/75)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Gold Refractor (/50)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Gold Wave (/50)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Human Torch Refractor (/39)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Orange Refractor (/25)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Black Wave (/10)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Red Refractor (/5)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Red Wave (/5)
Topps UK Marvel Chrome Superfractor (1/1)

EDIT: And no, UD is not immune to that, either. Platinum had two /33 parallels, though one was ePack exclusive.

[finfangfan]

Yeah… if they make a bazillion low numbered cards does it even matter if a card is a “low number” if there are a bazillion low number variations. I guess that depends on whether or not Fanatics is able to 10x the hobby as it says it will.