Any Buzz on 2027 Location?

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Grid

I think you are ignoring that the National is one big swap meet. You have hundreds of private dealers and tens of thousands general shoppers attending.

The typical convention at the McCormick Place is much, much more corporate based. Which is not nearly as cost sensitive as a card show would be.

Having GM or Ford pay Union Rates to set us displays at a car show. Or getting people to expense trips/cabs/hotels on a company card for an Expo is not the same as getting Mr. Fanboi from Iowa through a card show, lugging a pelican case and carrying 8 boxes of wax and a signed bat out the door back to the hotel.

True.

From reading all the comments this year, it seems like the National has just become a big crowded mess...

It's pretty obvious that the dealers who run the National are cheapskates and will never move the show outside of their geographical comfort zone.

Would really like to see TriStar pick up the ball and put together some regional shows that are maybe 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the National in cities (mostly west of the Mississippi) that rarely get good/big shows. They used to do a San Francisco show, but the last time I went (maybe 6-7 years ago) it had really gone downhill, and I don't think they do it anymore.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by mfw13

True.

From reading all the comments this year, it seems like the National has just become a big crowded mess...

It's pretty obvious that the dealers who run the National are cheapskates and will never move the show outside of their geographical comfort zone.

Would really like to see TriStar pick up the ball and put together some regional shows that are maybe 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the National in cities (mostly west of the Mississippi) that rarely get good/big shows. They used to do a San Francisco show, but the last time I went (maybe 6-7 years ago) it had really gone downhill, and I don't think they do it anymore.

I hear ya! But it does cost money for dealers to keep pushing West. Look at all the big players, Blowout (Virginia), Steel City Col (Pittsburgh), Dave and Adams (New York) ETC.

And why would any of them push any further West than Chicago? Especially considering 80% of the US population lives East of the Mississippi River.

Right now, Chicago is as central to both coasts and the best value option for all involved. IMO, they should just stake their flag there and make it the official location for the next decade. So we can avoid these threads for a while LOL

[thepilluh]

Lots of people talk about wanting West Coast shows, but nobody seems to want to do it. It's a business opportunity waiting for someone to take a chance on if they really think it will be succesful. But there is likley a reason there are no major promoters venturing into that part of the country. Lots of "flyover states" in the US called that for a reason.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by mfw13

True.

From reading all the comments this year, it seems like the National has just become a big crowded mess...

It's pretty obvious that the dealers who run the National are cheapskates and will never move the show outside of their geographical comfort zone.

Would really like to see TriStar pick up the ball and put together some regional shows that are maybe 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the National in cities (mostly west of the Mississippi) that rarely get good/big shows. They used to do a San Francisco show, but the last time I went (maybe 6-7 years ago) it had really gone downhill, and I don't think they do it anymore.

Trust me, there are many long time goers of the National who would love to see TriStar go somewhere else too.

5,000 VIP tickets that created incredibly long lines for packaged autograph guests

The same VIP and Platinum guests over and over. I had Roger Clemens 6 years in a row.

No free inscriptions anymore for VIP guests.

Majority of autograph guests are repeats.

Autograph guests at the National cost more than when they sign at other shows.

Constantly changing staff that don't know what they are doing year to year.

Changes in VIP packages and what you receive as part of them.

[tyrith]

It would make a lot more sense to have another large scale show that's permanently out west - which is what Burbank is trying to be, honestly - versus having the NSCC out west. There's just no real motivation for the stakeholders of the National to risk a venue so far outside of the normal geographic territory.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by tyrith

It would make a lot more sense to have another large scale show that's permanently out west - which is what Burbank is trying to be, honestly - versus having the NSCC out west. There's just no real motivation for the stakeholders of the National to risk a venue so far outside of the normal geographic territory.

I've suggested this in the past....the American Crafts Council does something like this....their annual "National" show is in Baltimore every year, but they also have quarterly regional shows in San Francisco, Minneapolis, and Atlanta that are about 50% of the size of the National.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Grid

I hear ya! But it does cost money for dealers to keep pushing West. Look at all the big players, Blowout (Virginia), Steel City Col (Pittsburgh), Dave and Adams (New York) ETC.

And why would any of them push any further West than Chicago? Especially considering 80% of the US population lives East of the Mississippi River.

Right now, Chicago is as central to both coasts and the best value option for all involved. IMO, they should just stake their flag there and make it the official location for the next decade. So we can avoid these threads for a while LOL

California, Washington, Oregon, and Arizona contain about 18% of the US population all by themselves. That's a pretty big chuck of people (60 million).

And Texas contains about 9% as well (and is also west of the Mississippi).

Also note that COMC is here in Seattle, and Upper Deck is in LA....there are plenty of big hobby players on the West Coast.

[tyrith]

Originally Posted by mfw13

California, Washington, Oregon, and Arizona contain about 18% of the US population all by themselves. That's a pretty big chuck of people (60 million).

And Texas contains about 9% as well (and is also west of the Mississippi).

Also note that COMC is here in Seattle, and Upper Deck is in LA....there are plenty of big hobby players on the West Coast.

Seattle and Los Angeles are 1100 miles apart - functionally the same distance as Atlanta and Boston, for instance. Stuff in the Western US is just not close to each other. In Austin, it takes me like 3.5 hours just to get out of Texas. Driving to Phoenix would take 15 hours, much less Las Vegas or Los Angeles. Driving to the Chicago national would only take a couple of hours more.

There's definitely room to have a big show, probably specifically in SoCal...and there's a big show in Burbank twice a year. Upper Deck doesn't even bother to sponsor it, even though it's already one of the largest shows in the country. But a West Coast National is going to come from the Burbank show continuing to expand, not from the NSCC people.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by mfw13

California, Washington, Oregon, and Arizona contain about 18% of the US population all by themselves. That's a pretty big chuck of people (60 million).

And Texas contains about 9% as well (and is also west of the Mississippi).

Also note that COMC is here in Seattle, and Upper Deck is in LA....there are plenty of big hobby players on the West Coast.

California is 39,000,000 of that

Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, and Michigan are all bigger then every other state you listed

Those 3 don’t matter at all for this discussion

[Grid]

Originally Posted by mfw13

California, Washington, Oregon, and Arizona contain about 18% of the US population all by themselves. That's a pretty big chuck of people (60 million).

And Texas contains about 9% as well (and is also west of the Mississippi).

Also note that COMC is here in Seattle, and Upper Deck is in LA....there are plenty of big hobby players on the West Coast.

I see others have already burned your argument down already.

"Seattle and Los Angeles are 1100 miles apart - functionally the same distance as Atlanta and Boston, for instance" & "California is 39,000,000 of that. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, and Michigan are all bigger then every other state you listed"

Feel free to fact check what I said, that over 80% of the US lives East of the Mississippi.

I just wanted to add, that COMC being in Seattle and Upper Deck in LA are NOT dealers. They are businesses. I was speaking of dealers having to pack and ship their inventory and staff that far across the US. When they are located in the East.

There really is no argument to be made on your end. The National DID do Anaheim, but attendance & dealer support there was way lower than Chicago the year before and Cleveland the year after. Come 2009, they bailed on California.

They tried Atlanta before too, and it was a horrible failure. It was the least attended show out of all of them. That was one and done. If it made sense, they would do it. Since they arent, that means it doesnt make sense.

[sportsnutcards]

Most of the major problems that happened in Cleveland don't exist in Chicago. There really is no major incentive to move it elsewhere unless new problems arise next year.

[ThoseBackPages]

glad its at Rosemont the next three years.

best place to have it as a traveler

[itsbaytime]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

glad its at Rosemont the next three years.

best place to have it as a traveler

This!!! And I live in 25 miles south of Cleveland in Akron. The show was a logistical nightmare and the IX center, Brookpark, etc. just can not handle that many people at once. Downtown Cleveland would be better, but still not enough hotel rooms, ubers, parking and space at that convention center. Rosemont is just so easy to drive (or fly) and park (or ube)r to the hotel and park your butt for 3,4,5 days. I love the convenience of walking or a short (easy to get) uber ride to almost anything imaginable. Just my 2 cents.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

This!!! And I live in 25 miles south of Cleveland in Akron. The show was a logistical nightmare and the IX center, Brookpark, etc. just can not handle that many people at once. Downtown Cleveland would be better, but still not enough hotel rooms, ubers, parking and space at that convention center. Rosemont is just so easy to drive (or fly) and park (or ube)r to the hotel and park your butt for 3,4,5 days. I love the convenience of walking or a short (easy to get) uber ride to almost anything imaginable. Just my 2 cents.

It took me 25 minutes to get from Puritas to the VIP Lounge

Nightmare

Or people are idiots (that’s the real answer)

[itsbaytime]

Originally Posted by asujbl

It took me 25 minutes to get from Puritas to the VIP Lounge

Nightmare

Or people are idiots (that’s the real answer)

I have been to the IX center a million times and I have set up there for other shows. I know the back way to arrive. The venue/city as currently set up can not handle that many people. I love Cleveland. I don't know why you have to get so upset about it. The bathroom situation on Weds and Thursday was unacceptable, the traffic was horrible on Weds and even going the back way Thursday and Saturday still added lots of time to my otherwise easy trip. The parking lot was overflowing and the wifi was not good on half of the building. It is what it is.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

I have been to the IX center a million times and I have set up there for other shows. I know the back way to arrive. The venue/city as currently set up can not handle that many people. I love Cleveland. I don't know why you have to get so upset about it. The bathroom situation on Weds and Thursday was unacceptable, the traffic was horrible on Weds and even going the back way Thursday and Saturday still added lots of time to my otherwise easy trip. The parking lot was overflowing and the wifi was not good on half of the building. It is what it is.

Cool story

The weekend was super easy if you’re not a crazy person. My experience was literally the opposite

It was easy as can be

But do you

[itsbaytime]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Cool story

The weekend was super easy if you’re not a crazy person. My experience was literally the opposite

It was easy as can be

But do you

You act as if I am personally offending you and the only person saying this. I am so crazy.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

You act as if I am personally offending you and the only person saying this. I am so crazy.

I know you are

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

and even going the back way Thursday and Saturday still added lots of time to my otherwise easy trip.

I guess I don't understand this. I went at 10 am on Thursday, 9 am on Friday, and 10 am on Saturday. I went the back way all 3 days and had no wait or added length to my drive. When I say that I mean it literally. Not a single second of waiting to get in the lot. I'm willing to accept we all have our own experiences and they shape our perception. But given that coming from the West had literally zero wait for 3 days in a row, I can't imagine how it "added lots of time" to your trip. Please explain.

[jkampis]

Originally Posted by asujbl

I know you are

The 8-year-old has entered the chat.

[2010GBPackers]

Ohio guys, chill. Very few people are crapping on Cleveland and/or Ohio in general. I'm glad that you all know the secrets and ins-and-outs of how to navigate the National at the IX Center, however, if you step outside of your own understanding and be a bit more empathetic to those who are not from the area, you may be able to see the issues with having it in Cleveland. And by the way, I had a great time! But I can recognize why/how others view it differently.

By Friday, I had figured out how to efficiently get in, set up, and get out of the IX Center and be able to get to scheduled dinners downtown at 7pm. (I also stayed downtown.) Additionally, the IX Center space is far superior to Rosemont - i.e. higher ceilings, more aisle space, better AC, chairs, and other spaces for attendees to sit, etc. However, parking was a nightmare, a freaking nightmare, for folks who attended one or two days and didn't have time to figure out the secrets of getting in and out.

You cannot run a show this size and have the general attendee getting out of their Uber a half mile from the show and walking down a busy street. The Ubers NEED to be able to have access to the entrance, especially considering they were $30-50 rides. Like others have mentioned, most folks stay within walking distance of the Rosemont CC so getting an Uber is pretty simple and cheap for those staying a bit too far to walk. Another issue - the bathrooms - Yikes! Wifi - I know others have commented that it was fine (and it was for me, but I have Spectrum, which has access to all of the major carriers and chooses the best signal - I highly recommend it!), but I had to turn on my hotspot for others around me numerous times because folks couldn't get service. I did not have that experience in Chicago, most everybody had service. Also, they had to shrink the National by ~30 dealers because the entire IX Center isn't available anymore due to them leasing out parts of their building, which by the way, left those who parked in the largest parking lot (on the westside, I think) without access to the entrance on that side.

I'm no fan of the Rosemont CC, but everything else about the location makes it the only CC that makes sense for the average customer. If Indy could make it make sense, I'd love to have it there as well.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Ohio guys, chill. Very few people are crapping on Cleveland and/or Ohio in general. I'm glad that you all know the secrets and ins-and-outs of how to navigate the National at the IX Center, however, if you step outside of your own understanding and be a bit more empathetic to those who are not from the area, you may be able to see the issues with having it in Cleveland. And by the way, I had a great time! But I can recognize why/how others view it differently.

By Friday, I had figured out how to efficiently get in, set up, and get out of the IX Center and be able to get to scheduled dinners downtown at 7pm. (I also stayed downtown.) Additionally, the IX Center space is far superior to Rosemont - i.e. higher ceilings, more aisle space, better AC, chairs, and other spaces for attendees to sit, etc. However, parking was a nightmare, a freaking nightmare, for folks who attended one or two days and didn't have time to figure out the secrets of getting in and out.

You cannot run a show this size and have the general attendee getting out of their Uber a half mile from the show and walking down a busy street. The Ubers NEED to be able to have access to the entrance, especially considering they were $30-50 rides. Like others have mentioned, most folks stay within walking distance of the Rosemont CC so getting an Uber is pretty simple and cheap for those staying a bit too far to walk. Another issue - the bathrooms - Yikes! Wifi - I know others have commented that it was fine (and it was for me, but I have Spectrum, which has access to all of the major carriers and chooses the best signal - I highly recommend it!), but I had to turn on my hotspot for others around me numerous times because folks couldn't get service. I did not have that experience in Chicago, most everybody had service. Also, they had to shrink the National by ~30 dealers because the entire IX Center isn't available anymore due to them leasing out parts of their building, which by the way, left those who parked in the largest parking lot (on the westside, I think) without access to the entrance on that side.

I'm no fan of the Rosemont CC, but everything else about the location makes it the only CC that makes sense for the average customer. If Indy could make it make sense, I'd love to have it there as well.

In regards to your first part I agree. You can't assume for people who have never been to the IX and aren't from the area to know there's a back way in. I didn't know that, I'm also not freaking out about the traffic, either. It was dumb but it is what it is.

I don't think it'll matter though, I've been listening to a lot of recaps from influencers/dealers and I would be quite surprised if the show comes back to the IX in Cleveland anytime soon. Those same people seem worried about it in Rosemont too, though. The key theme seems to be that because you have to book out as far in advance as they do, the crowd size is growing way quicker than whoever is in charge is planning for.

[JuniorDandy]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

The key theme seems to be that because you have to book out as far in advance as they do, the crowd size is growing way quicker than whoever is in charge is planning for.

Jeremy Lee interviewed the promoters after they took over last year and they basically said this. Essentially they said the old promoter was the one that chose Cleveland and they knew it was too small for the anticipated crowd but couldn't do anything about it because they inherited it and it was already booked and announced. It was around the time that all of the lower priority dealers were upset because they got bumped due to lack of space. If I recall it was people with priority 4 and lower.

[tribefan]

Originally Posted by JuniorDandy

It was around the time that all of the lower priority dealers were upset because they got bumped due to lack of space. If I recall it was people with priority 4 and lower.

I thought there were some "new" dealers without any previous priority setup this year?

[notoriousrmb]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

In regards to your first part I agree. You can't assume for people who have never been to the IX and aren't from the area to know there's a back way in. I didn't know that, I'm also not freaking out about the traffic, either. It was dumb but it is what it is.

I don't think it'll matter though, I've been listening to a lot of recaps from influencers/dealers and I would be quite surprised if the show comes back to the IX in Cleveland anytime soon. Those same people seem worried about it in Rosemont too, though. The key theme seems to be that because you have to book out as far in advance as they do, the crowd size is growing way quicker than whoever is in charge is planning for.

I'm not from the area - this was new to me. I just used google maps and it told me to go the back way to avoid the traffic. 0 research or planning needed, just use the app and I zipped right in and parked every morning at 9am.