Wander Franco Rookie Card Debate (2021 Bowman's Best vs. 2022 RC logo cards)

[awz50]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

That's some sadness

[Cards and 401K]

Selfish idiot. #1 prospect in minors 2 years in a row officially crashes, had it been peds would be playing already.


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[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by Cards and 401K

had it been peds would be playing already.

You’re right - he messed up. You’re supposed to use PED’s, not be the PED.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

It's possible to feel bad for someone who made a terrible mistake or exercised poor judgment. There is nothing wrong with that. It's actually a healthy trait in a person to have that kind of sympathy.

I had a friend injured in an ATV accident. He knew the risks when he did it. I still felt bad for him.

Great comparison. Get burned trying to make money prospecting baseball cards versus getting injured riding an ATV. Nice.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Great comparison. Get burned trying to make money prospecting baseball cards versus getting injured riding an ATV. Nice.

Way to skirt the issue. Not every analogy is a 1/1 comparison, nor does it need to be. Doesn't change the point in both instances. My friend did something stupid and got hurt. And it's ok to feel sympathy for him. Wander investors took a risk and lost. It's also ok to feel bad for them, even though they knew the risk and made that choice. In both instance, you're still a bad person.

[KhalDrogo]

Do people feel bad for Shyne too? Seems like if you feel bad for the average Joe on BO, you should really feel bad for Shyne.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Do people feel bad for Shyne too? Seems like if you feel bad for the average Joe on BO, you should really feel bad for Shyne.

Who's Shyne?

If he suffered loss, even if he got what he deserved, I can feel bad for him.

I deal with people who have ruined their lives with drugs and crime on a regular basis. I prosecute them as is the right thing to do. But I still feel bad for them.

Here's a word for you:

Psychopathy is a mental disorder that's characterized by a set of personality traits and behaviors that can include:
Lack of empathy: Psychopaths may have difficulty showing empathy or remorse.
Callousness: Psychopaths may be unemotional and morally depraved.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Who's Shyne?

If he suffered loss, even if he got what he deserved, I can feel bad for him.

Interesting.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Interesting.

I just looked up who Shyne is. And I think I realize the issue here. You are confused and don't understand that justice and empathy are not mutually exclusive. In reality, all true justice requires empathy. Otherwise, it is just self-righteous indignation. But since self-righteousness is your calling card, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

[stanmarsh]

Im holding. He'll come back to play in the DR or another country and put up great numbers.

[BabaORiley]

Originally Posted by stanmarsh

Im holding. He'll come back to play in the DR or another country and put up great numbers.

Way to be optimistic! Rick Vaughn did make it back from the California Penal League so there's a path out there!

[Boo]

BB21 pumpers take another hit

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Do people feel bad for Shyne too? Seems like if you feel bad for the average Joe on BO, you should really feel bad for Shyne.

No - this is gambling from the degenerates, all the way up to the casual risk taker. I don’t know where Shyne falls on that scale, but personally, I’m in the degenerate range or at least really close!

[BabaORiley]

In terms of "bag-holding", I'll fully disclose that I pulled a lot of great Wanders that I stupidly didn't sell. I did manage to part with graded True Blue and Atomic BCA's that Houdini hit for me in breaks at close to peak pricing. I sold a Pro Debut Black 1/1 for like $60, a Bowman Heritage Gold Auto for $200, and a couple other cards at like 5-10% of "pre-weirdsh$t" Wander prices.

Remaining graded cards that were pack-pulled:
2019 Bowman Heritage Orange Auto, Gold Auto, 3 Refractor Autos
2019 Bowman Heritage Gold, handful of Blues, handful of Refractors (non-auto)
5 2019 Bowman Mojos (these just got back from PSA before his news broke - sold 2 at regular prices and a couple at bargain prices but have 5 remaining as news broke before I could sell them)
2019 Mojo Auto (bought a couple BO boxes specifically hoping to hit this card back in the day and somehow did)
2019 Sterling Continuity Auto (Houdini pulled; was the one I was going to hold onto LT)
3 Various 2019 Bowman's Best Autos

Ungraded
A healthy amount of Pro Debut and 21BB stuff that I pulled ripping cases.

What can I say: his prospect profile was unlike anything I'd ever seen. The baseball fan in me was starry-eyed and envisioned him routinely winning batting titles and putting up 6-8 WAR seasons throughout his 20's and early 30's.

In reality, he was a uniquely unrivaled prospect, very good baseball player and a dirtbag of a human being.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I just looked up who Shyne is. And I think I realize the issue here. You are confused and don't understand that justice and empathy are not mutually exclusive. In reality, all true justice requires empathy. Otherwise, it is just self-righteous indignation. But since self-righteousness is your calling card, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

The real issue is you think I’m a psychopath because I don’t share your opinion of sympathy for people who lose money on baseball cards. Since you feel so bad for them, maybe you can throw a few bucks their way to help make them whole again?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by BabaORiley

In reality, he was a uniquely unrivaled prospect, very good baseball player and a dirtbag of a human being.

The flags were there. Literally got benched for being a bad teammate. That’s why I said sell everything when the news came out. The risk wasn’t worth the reward. It didn’t matter how many times you screamed “SPECULATION!”.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The real issue is you think I’m a psychopath because I don’t share your opinion of sympathy for people who lose money on baseball cards. Since you feel so bad for them, maybe you can throw a few bucks their way to help make them whole again?

Still don't comprehend how sympathy works I see.

They don't need "made whole." They made a choice and live with the consequences. My having sympathy for them doesn't mean I don't think the consequences are appropriate. THAT'S why you are a psychopath. Not because you don't share my opinion in this case, but because you are incapable of even understanding the concept of it.

Empathy is saying, "I know how they feel, and I don't like feeling that way. So I feel for them for experiencing that negative feeling." It can apply to all situations, whether I think they deserve it or not. A psychopath is someone who doesn't experience that feeling when someone else goes through something bad (even if it's their own making).

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by BabaORiley

his prospect profile was unlike anything I'd ever seen. The baseball fan in me was starry-eyed and envisioned him routinely winning batting titles and putting up 6-8 WAR seasons throughout his 20's and early 30's.

his prospect profile was unlike anything I'd ever seen. The baseball fan in me was starry-eyed and envisioned him routinely winning batting titles and putting up 6-8 WAR seasons throughout his 20's and early 30's

.

[KhalDrogo]

A psychologist and a lawyer. Somebody sign him up for the BAU!

[Zauron]

Honestly, I don't understand feeling sorry for people who lost money gambling. You know the consequences of investing in cardboard, and ripping packs. It is what it is.

That said, I never got the love for Wander. He was a good player, but a far cry from this heralded generational talent. "But he had 5.5 WAR in 2023" WAR is a good metric, but to me when half of your value is strictly from dWAR, it gets a little speculative. The money thrown at Wander had him hyped up to produce like ARod and from what I saw he was never going to be that type of player. I constantly saw him similar to Lindor.

Now, this scum bag should be a cautionary tale and hopefully he's locked up.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Zauron

Honestly, I don't understand feeling sorry for people who lost money gambling. You know the consequences of investing in cardboard, and ripping packs. It is what it is.

That said, I never got the love for Wander. He was a good player, but a far cry from this heralded generational talent. "But he had 5.5 WAR in 2023" WAR is a good metric, but to me when half of your value is strictly from dWAR, it gets a little speculative. The money thrown at Wander had him hyped up to produce like ARod and from what I saw he was never going to be that type of player. I constantly saw him similar to Lindor.

Now, this scum bag should be a cautionary tale and hopefully he's locked up.

Have you ever had someone close to you destroy their life gambling? Or with drugs? Like I said, it's possible to feel they got what they deserved, while at the same time feel sorry for the situation they are in. I don't understand the callousness it takes not to understand that.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by Zauron

Now, this scum bag should be a cautionary tale and hopefully he's locked up.

Wander and Nando are the two primary reasons why I got off the cardboard train. It was never about making money, but to sit around and watch it go up in flames to zero, wasn't acceptable either.

Live and learn, as they say.

[BabaORiley]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The flags were there. Literally got benched for being a bad teammate. That’s why I said sell everything when the news came out. The risk wasn’t worth the reward. It didn’t matter how many times you screamed “SPECULATION!”.

I'm not sure I ever screamed "SPECULATION" or anything similar to that and I certainly didn't do it repeatedly.

I posted this a year ago, shortly after the allegations:

"I'm not trying to maintain any illusion of value for the cards or my own value. I'd simply rather hold on for the small chance that this was some sort of a shakedown attempt than sell a bunch of cards that will eventually be returned. If they go to zero, I'm fine with that. Won't be the first or last time I get stuck with a bag. I'd be angry with myself if I had misjudged his baseball talent/potential but this wasn't exactly forseeable, despite some red flags from Wander over the past 12 months."

I saw the red flags and chalked them up to hubris & immaturity (similar to Acuna's early "red flags"). At the time, my prospecting calculus had American-born prospects more prone to unforseen character issues (think Josh Hamilton)
because many of them came from affluence. Generally speaking, with top-tier international guys, I was far more worried about the Oscar Taveras type outcomes. I've adjusted that calculus in light of Wander.

[zdawgs]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Why? Were they somehow duped? Did they not know the risks of sports cards?

Looking at any of your comments, empathy is not your strong suit. You are the definition of a narcissist.

[zdawgs]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The flags were there. Literally got benched for being a bad teammate. That’s why I said sell everything when the news came out. The risk wasn’t worth the reward. It didn’t matter how many times you screamed “SPECULATION!”.

High sense of oneself....another narcissist trait. Damn, we all wish we were as smart as you Khal. You really are the greatest human being on earth.