avoiding sellers who shill bid their cards

[Galileo77]

As a very naive collector i would like to hear from other collectors as to which sellers shill bid and how does one recognize when a card is being artificially inflated -i have bought from some of the consigners Probstein and PC but never realized there was shill bidding occuring -also as i buy primarily from auctions i would love to hear advice from some of the many experienced collectors who have dealt with this -thank you in advance

[dodgerfanjohn]

Dont worry about the shills.

Use a sniper program like gixen, set a snipe you are happy with, and you are done.

[atomic619jd]

I don't bid on cards often, but when I do I like to get a ballpark of recent sales for that specific card and others in the set. Once I generally understand the market/trend I set a price I'm comfortable spending on the card and don't go above it. Depending on when the auction ends I'll either bid that price in the remaining seconds or if I know I won't be available when it ends I'll just put it as my max bid price at that moment and if I win it, I win it, if not oh well onto the next! I've found it's really hard to stay disciplined if you don't have a strategy.

[Galileo77]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

Dont worry about the shills.

Use a sniper program like gixen, set a snipe you are happy with, and you are done.

Thank you for the advice -what is a "sniper program"

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Galileo77

Thank you for the advice -what is a "sniper program"

Search "eBay sniper app", several will pop up.

[mlbfan10]

It bids for you typically right at the end of an auction

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[Galileo77]

thank you very much that helps. i have bid often during the auction -i really like the idea of having a set price because at times i have bid over what i normally would have had i selected a set price prior to the end of the auction

[80s Kid]

Originally Posted by Galileo77

As a very naive collector i would like to hear from other collectors as to which sellers shill bid and how does one recognize when a card is being artificially inflated -i have bought from some of the consigners Probstein and PC but never realized there was shill bidding occuring -also as i buy primarily from auctions i would love to hear advice from some of the many experienced collectors who have dealt with this -thank you in advance

Besides using a sniping program the best way is to stick with the price you are willing to pay. If the seller shills over your price then they just get to waste their time selling the card again.

[ironfireman]

Any decent free snipe apps out there? Or which one is the best deal?
THanks!

[dwillard]

Hard to believe that collectors are still unaware of Gixen or other sniping sites. Only way to go especially if you don’t want to overspend as the clock ticks down.

[ThoseBackPages]

gixen is my choice as well

[SouthEastCards]

Originally Posted by Galileo77

As a very naive collector i would like to hear from other collectors as to which sellers shill bid and how does one recognize when a card is being artificially inflated -i have bought from some of the consigners Probstein and PC but never realized there was shill bidding occuring -also as i buy primarily from auctions i would love to hear advice from some of the many experienced collectors who have dealt with this -thank you in advance

If you go on eBay.com and click on bidder details usually the higher the percentage for 'bidding with this seller' is the more likely it is to be shilled.

[atk825]

Originally Posted by dwillard

Hard to believe that collectors are still unaware of Gixen or other sniping sites. Only way to go especially if you don’t want to overspend as the clock ticks down.

Or you can just put in your max bid manually. This does seem good for forgetting to submit your bid, though.

[gregr2]

gixen

[Jimbanto]

Everyone against shill bidding until they selling a card with a previous comp of $700 and its 12 hours to go and the bid is sitting at $149.

[larry25]

Good advice here, but sniping in way avoids shilling. Who's to say the shill isn't also sniping? Sniping just makes it easier to bid... and therefore easier to be shilled.

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by larry25

Good advice here, but sniping in way avoids shilling. Who's to say the shill isn't also sniping? Sniping just makes it easier to bid... and therefore easier to be shilled.

Just bid what you're willing to pay, and don't worry about the other shenanigans.

[atk825]

Originally Posted by larry25

Good advice here, but sniping in way avoids shilling. Who's to say the shill isn't also sniping? Sniping just makes it easier to bid... and therefore easier to be shilled.

Yah, the whole point is that shill bidding is just a reserve.

[DynaEtch]

It is a good strategy to bid at the last second. That said it does not cancel out the effects of shill bidding, and shill bidding affects how much you pay whether you’re bidding your max at the last second or not. Given the option of having an auction shilled vs not shilled, any rational person would take the no shilling.

If you are trying to stay away from shilled listings, in general be wary of consignment, look at bid history for many bids from one or a couple low feedback bidders (often 0), look for bidders with high percentage bidding with the seller, and look for relisted auctions (possibly over and over, as I’ve seen with probstein, so obviously). Often you can’t be sure, but those are some general things. Some people don’t care at all if a listing is shilled, many in this thread giving off that vibe…I do and try to steer clear. I don’t like paying more that I should, under a fair auction.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by Jimbanto

Everyone against shill bidding until they selling a card with a previous comp of $700 and its 12 hours to go and the bid is sitting at $149.

Then that’s how it goes. Don’t list at auction if you aren’t willing to let it play out and let the bidders decide. Don’t fraudulently tamper with the auction to set a reserve in a no-reserve auction. List your item at BIN. For the record I’m against shilling, before and after the example you are giving here.

[nmh20]

I’ve never in my life even tried to identify shill bidding on an auction I’ve been a part of. I tend to set up the card to be sniped at a price I’d be happy to pay – I either win the card or I don’t. Yes, it’s much less exciting when I win the card for my max bid or close to it vs. getting it at a discount – but the amount I choose to bid is often based on where I comp the card so it’s kind of to be expected.

With the amount of sniping that happens on eBay, I’d guess 95%+ of “shill bids” didn’t impact the final auction price anyway.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by nmh20

With the amount of sniping that happens on eBay, I’d guess 95%+ of “shill bids” didn’t impact the final auction price anyway.

Not really following where this is coming from. As it’s perfectly simple for a shill reserve bid to be placed at the end. Or long before, influencing the trajectory of an auction. Heck it’s not uncommon for the shill to outright win the auction, which is why I see relistings so often with some major consignment companies.

[Badgers0821]

If you ain’t shillin, you ain’t thrillin.

[Somuchjunkwax]

Originally Posted by Jimbanto

Everyone against shill bidding until they selling a card with a previous comp of $700 and its 12 hours to go and the bid is sitting at $149.

Apparently you can also just cancel the sale without any recourse. This has happened to me on more than one occasion. Card typically ends up back at auction within a few days.

[nmh20]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Not really following where this is coming from. As it’s perfectly simple for a shill reserve bid to be placed at the end. Or long before, influencing the trajectory of an auction. Heck it’s not uncommon for the shill to outright win the auction, which is why I see relistings so often with some major consignment companies.

I’m working under the assumption that most auctions for coveted cards are sniped, most probably using one of the aforementioned apps. If sellers were shill-bidding via a snipe in the last 5 seconds of an auction, they’re either (1) winning a very high % of the auctions they are running or (2) not doing anything at all.

In the example given below, a card with $700 comps that is currently at $100 with a few hours left, I’d bet you a pretty penny there are multiple people with snipes set up in the $6-$700 range. If I’m the seller and decide there’s no way I’m selling it for less than $500, as long as there are 2 people bidding more than $500 then my shill bid didn’t do anything. If I get even more greedy and try to shill it at $680 or $700 because that’s where the comps are, I’m going to probably win 1/3 of those auctions. I don’t know what the % is of cards that are never paid for, but I’m certain it’s a pretty small number.

I’m not disputing the fact that shilling happens, I’m just saying in most cases it does not impact the final price.