MVP's = GOAT

[Gem10collection]

Regular season MVP and Finals MVP are the only things that count when making goat talk. Sort of clear as day when you look at the numbers combined. Not an exhaustive list and does not include the old gen players.

MJ = 11
LBJ = 8
Kareem = 8
Magic = 6
Bird = 5
Duncan = 5
Shaq = 4
Nikola = 4
Kobe = 3
Curry = 3
Durant = 3
Olajuwon = 3
Giannis = 3
Dirk = 2

[drobfan8]

I don't think I'd take KD over any of those guys, and he wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him joining Steph as it's pretty clear he'd never have won a ring.

Other than that, it looks pretty good.

[Gem10collection]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

I don't think I'd take KD over any of those guys, and he wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him joining Steph as it's pretty clear he'd never have won a ring.

Other than that, it looks pretty good.

100% agreed! Just sort of threw him in there because he came to mind. However, there was a significant amount of time when people were saying he was the best player in the NBA along with Kawhi.

[jhssketchcards]

Good list…
Interesting to see it refined by those who are undefeated in NBA Finals


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bmf]

Wilt and Russell rolling over in their graves. One-Ring Joker (easiest Finals match-up ever) over Kobe and Steph. List starts out ok but quickly falls apart.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

Regular season MVP and Finals MVP are the only things that count when making goat talk

According to who?

[Gem10collection]

Originally Posted by bmf

Wilt and Russell rolling over in their graves. One-Ring Joker (easiest Finals match-up ever) over Kobe and Steph. List starts out ok but quickly falls apart.

Didn't include those guys because the league was sooo different back then. I think during Bill's time there was only 8 teams in the league and they didn't even issue Finals MVP's - though Bill did win 5 regular season MVP's. Both Wilt and Bill were incredible athletes and could have played in today's NBA no prob but I thought to cut it off at Kareem to keep it mostly focused on modern players.

[hermanotarjeta]

Do MVP’s or personal accolades even matter if you don’t win the championship?

Ask any NBA player if they would prefer an MVP award or a ring and see what they would prefer. Especially Mr. Logoman himself, Jerry West, who won a finals mvp one year but lost the series.

[ricefan77]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

According to who?

I would say smart money, collectors, etc. Is there anyone on this list that you would put in the GOAT conversation? Doesn't mean there aren't lots of other superstars.

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

Regular season MVP and Finals MVP are the only things that count when making goat talk. Sort of clear as day when you look at the numbers combined.

MJ = 11
LBJ = 8
Kareem = 8
Magic = 6
WILT = 5
Bird = 5
Duncan = 5

FYP......

And Wilt was the 1972 Finals MVP so if Kareem is being counted, Wilt has to be on the list.


My list would add in scoring titles, along with the various MVPs which would keep out the 'empty calorie' guys from being too high. Obviously many of these players also led the NBA in scoring.

[Orangejello727]

Petit?
Malone? Both Moses and Karl
Nash??

They dont count with 2 Mvps??

MVPs a voted award. Its a popularity contest. I guarantee you if the Mavs win or lose if they make the finals, Luka gets the MVP either way. The MVP award is a marketing scheme for story telling and scripting. Prove me wrong!!

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by ricefan77

I would say smart money, collectors, etc. Is there anyone on this list that you would put in the GOAT conversation? Doesn't mean there aren't lots of other superstars.

My point is, OP said regular season MVP and finals MVP are the “only” things that determine who is the GOAT. Is that just an opinion, or widely agreed upon and accepted universal criteria? ( not trying to be a smart *ss… I’m truly interested )

[mjekase]

Not that I think this is the best way to gauge “greatness”, but you’re missing Moses Malone, who has 4.

[asujbl]

This list is embarrassing

I know you’re trying to kick out the guys without rings… but that’s pathetic

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by mjekase

Not that I think this is the best way to gauge “greatness”, but you’re missing Moses Malone, who has 4.

Edit

This thread is garbage

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Petit?
Malone? Both Moses and Karl
Nash??

They dont count with 2 Mvps??

MVPs a voted award. Its a popularity contest. I guarantee you if the Mavs win or lose if they make the finals, Luka gets the MVP either way. The MVP award is a marketing scheme for story telling and scripting. Prove me wrong!!

You have to have both. This thread is sad

[Gem10collection]

Didn't have time to include every player but I think the MVP gauge is a pretty accurate measure of greatness.

Interesting enough, who will be added to this list over the next decade will be the fun part.
I'm going to say Wemby just for

[ThatGuyPal]

No Bill Russell?

Clown thread

[GOATcards]

just see this thread
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?p=19365716
and also take into account that players like KG had f-all for support until going from smaller to larger market so they might be underrated by such measures. POY Shares seems to apportion credit for top performances even better than some combo of regular-season MVP Shares and Finals MVPs. Also I support using the concept of timeline adjustment rigorously, I'm not altogether clear on how we do that via the numbers, which makes me look more at thing like comparative distribution of outcomes across eras (if that makes sense in one very brief shot).

I would have no problem regarding Jokic as something like a top-7 player when you consider era especially (he's the most dominant player since . . . LeBron's prime I assume). He's shown that he can show out in the playoffs just fine, the key issues has been whether his support is strong enough. I guess in the current heat of the moment people might say "Luka" when asked which player they would take over Jokic right now. The Advanced Metrics give slightly conflicting info, with the two being about even in EPM but Joker still about 2 points ahead in Darko/DPM (these are the top two metrics preferred by GM-types according to one survey). I'm not really sure which of the two I'd take right now, both seem to be fine players to have lead a squad
(As for Finals MVPs, I can easily see Luka being the real m v p of the Finals this year and it'll mean as much hardware as either Jerry West in '69 or LeBron in '15 or '18.)

[GOATcards]

as for how I'd vote for '24 Player of the Year shares, it looks like I'd go:
1. Luka if he has a great finals performance
2. Joker
3. SGA
4. Tatum if he has a Tatum-like finals
5. Ant
6. i'unno, Brunson?

[Gem10collection]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

just see this thread
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?p=19365716
and also take into account that players like KG had f-all for support until going from smaller to larger market so they might be underrated by such measures. POY Shares seems to apportion credit for top performances even better than some combo of regular-season MVP Shares and Finals MVPs. Also I support using the concept of timeline adjustment rigorously, I'm not altogether clear on how we do that via the numbers, which makes me look more at thing like comparative distribution of outcomes across eras (if that makes sense in one very brief shot).

I would have no problem regarding Jokic as something like a top-7 player when you consider era especially (he's the most dominant player since . . . LeBron's prime I assume). He's shown that he can show out in the playoffs just fine, the key issues has been whether his support is strong enough. I guess in the current heat of the moment people might say "Luka" when asked which player they would take over Jokic right now. The Advanced Metrics give slightly conflicting info, with the two being about even in EPM but Joker still about 2 points ahead in Darko/DPM (these are the top two metrics preferred by GM-types according to one survey). I'm not really sure which of the two I'd take right now, both seem to be fine players to have lead a squad
(As for Finals MVPs, I can easily see Luka being the real m v p of the Finals this year and it'll mean as much hardware as either Jerry West in '69 or LeBron in '15 or '18.)

Both lists very similar. The only difference being I didn't add the older gen players mostly because the Finals MVP wasn't introduced until 1970.

[cms11]

MVP is a BS award that often doesn't go to the league's best player.

If you look at the number of times top 3 in MVP voting, it's a lot closer. MJ is still the GOAT, but if LeBron gets another FMVP then it will be a real conversation.

Jordan had 10 years top 3 in MVP voting + 6 FMVP = 16
Lebron had 11 years top 3* in MVP voting + 4 FMVP = 15

*also 2 more in the top 4.

[sethc1020]

I would also like to see these #s correlated with Championships. You can have all the MVPs you want but without multiple rings and playoff dominance you cannot even be in the GOAT discussion. See Karl Malone

Jokic, KD, Giannis, Dirk and maybe even Hakeem should not even be on this list.

[Gem10collection]

The list and the metric are both not exhaustive but a simple and seamingly accurate way of identifying goat's.

Also, regular season MVP does matter because in the end it is a team sport and someone having the season of their life shouldn't be penalized if their team is just not playoff calibur.

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

Regular season MVP and Finals MVP are the only things that count when making goat talk. Sort of clear as day when you look at the numbers combined. Not an exhaustive list and does not include the old gen players.

MJ = 11
LBJ = 8
Kareem = 8
Magic = 6
Bird = 5
Duncan = 5
Shaq = 4
Nikola = 4
Kobe = 3
Curry = 3
Durant = 3
Olajuwon = 3
Giannis = 3
Dirk = 2

Bro, if you're going to make a list, at least be accurate. Where is Russell and Wilt? Russell won 5 regular season MVPs and he won all of his 11 rings BEFORE FMVPs were handed out. I think CONSERVATIVELY, he easily could've been FMVP for at least 6 of of his 11 rings, maybe more. That would give him 11.

Wilt had 4 regular season MVPs and 1 FMVP in 1972 but he also would've been FMVP in 1967. That gives him 6 total.

But for the most part, this metric is pretty accurate. No metric is perfect but this is pretty solid.