Cracking a graded card: Are you morally/ethically obligated to tell future buyers?

[zdawgs]

Like a previous member on this board said, I have yet to see a listing where it was disclosed that it was cracked out and a grade was given to the card previously. Everyone says what they feel should be done, but would be shocked if these same people do what they preach.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

But if information on the raw card is extant and known by the seller, revealing it as the seller would avoid fraudulent concealment - no?

It might be deceptive but it's not fraud. There is no government agencies regulating the card maker like the stock market. There are no laws being broken. It would be nice to disclose if the seller cracked it but I'd imagine most people aren't going to because there is no penalties if they don't and they may get less for the card. And grading is subjective. A card that was a PSA 9 could get cracked and resubmitted and get a 10. Grading is a scam in my opinion. I only buy raw with no intention of grading. I make a judgement based on condition based on photos and decide how much I'm willing to pay.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

But if information on the raw card is extant and known by the seller, revealing it as the seller would avoid fraudulent concealment - no?

It might be deceptive but it's not fraud. There is no government agencies regulating the card market like the stock market. There are no laws being broken. It would be nice to disclose if the seller cracked it but I'd imagine most people aren't going to because there is no penalties if they don't and they may get less for the card. And grading is subjective. A card that was a PSA 9 could get cracked and resubmitted and get a 10. Grading is a scam in my opinion. I only buy raw with no intention of grading. I make a judgement based on condition based on photos and decide how much I'm willing to pay.

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by zdawgs

Like a previous member on this board said, I have yet to see a listing where it was disclosed that it was cracked out and a grade was given to the card previously. Everyone says what they feel should be done, but would be shocked if these same people do what they preach.

It's rare. Here's mine. I had documented as part of the experiment, whether it would sell for less, same, or more. It sold for more as a raw, disclosed PSA-8 crack-out, than what I had paid for the 8.

paid $26.00, Nov '22 (PSA-8)
sold $59.58 Jan '23 (raw)

[discostu]

There's a BGS 10 Durant Prizm autograph floating around that has obvious surface scratches on the actual card itself. Smack in the middle of the card.

Should that have been disclosed to BGS prior to submitting?

Should that have been disclosed while selling it slabbed as a BGS 10?

Perhaps I should have merely lit the card on fire.

[asujbl]

Should you have to disclose a prior grade? Nope

Should you have to disclose an obvious defect if you can tell why it had a prior grade? Yep

This is common sense people

If you crack a 9? Just sell it
If you crack an 8? There is a reason it was an 8. Take a quick peak

People describing raw cards accurately is way more important than a prior grade. Not just dropping the “I’m not a grader” disclaimer

I know common sense doesn’t work in the hobby though

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Should you have to disclose a prior grade? Nope

Should you have to disclose an obvious defect if you can tell why it had a prior grade? Yep

This is common sense people

If you crack a 9? Just sell it
If you crack an 8? There is a reason it was an 8. Take a quick peak

People describing raw cards accurately is way more important than a prior grade. Not just dropping the “I’m not a grader” disclaimer

I know common sense doesn’t work in the hobby though

Probably why a lot of people use consignors. Don't have to feel bad about selling the card or misleading people...

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

Probably why a lot of people use consignors. Don't have to feel bad about selling the card or misleading people...

Not sure. I don’t sell anything

[eastbayak]

Buyers are responsible for doing their due diligence.

If I care enough about condition for a specific card, I buy a slabbed version (but, of course, I buy the card and not the grade). For raw card purchases, I'm usually happy as long as it's near-mint (PSA/BGS 8) quality.

I've only cracked one card in my life and it's still in my collection. But, if I sold it, I wouldn't feel the need to disclose that it was previously slabbed, although I probably would because I prefer to be transparent. But it's not a moral/ethical matter IMO.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

This ^^^

Any graded card can easily be converted to a raw card, and there's nothing wrong with doing that. It's not some type of alteration that needs to be disclosed.

If I show the card to my neighbor and he says he thinks it's too glossy, should I be obligated to disclose his opinion too? C'mon.

What if the card made my dog bark once? Disclose?

I might pay a premium for a card that made a dog bark once.

[asujbl]

So we don’t care at all that..

“Grading is a scam… don’t trust graders”

Also equates to

“Disclose all prior grades. That’s what someone random said it was”

I don’t care. Just want to know the rules

Seems incongruent

[ThoseBackPages]

#ThanksTopps

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by asujbl

I don’t care. Just want to know the rules

Seems incongruent

Bingo.

It's why my take is:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

For the record, my position is that it's either all or nothing.

Either the hobby says grades matter intrinsically and so sellers should disclose previous grades of cracked cards and resubbing for higher grades should be seen as a form of scamming.

Or the hobby says grades are ephemeral and so there's nothing for a seller to disclose once they've cracked a card and all is fair in resubbing as many times as you need to get that "10" label.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Bingo.

It's why my take is:

ASU ASU

Two in the…

I’ll let it go

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by zdawgs

Like a previous member on this board said, I have yet to see a listing where it was disclosed that it was cracked out and a grade was given to the card previously. Everyone says what they feel should be done, but would be shocked if these same people do what they preach.

I have a feeling most people don't crack out cards with obvious flaws.

This is not disclosed because it is overblown how often slabs are cracked

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by asujbl

ASU ASU

Two in the…

I’ll let it go

Does the “1,2,3, first down b*tch!” chant go back to your undergrad days?

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Does the “1,2,3, first down b*tch!” chant go back to your undergrad days?

Not sure we had a first down… maybe JR Redmond

But no is the answer

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

I have a feeling most people don't crack out cards with obvious flaws.

This is not disclosed because it is overblown how often slabs are cracked

I don't know. At Tristar there were two tables and all the guys were doing was buying slabs, going to the tables and cracking them and then resubbing them to PSA/BGS. Really made you feel good about paying extra for those high grades...

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

I don't know. At Tristar there were two tables and all the guys were doing was buying slabs, going to the tables and cracking them and then resubbing them to PSA/BGS. Really made you feel good about paying extra for those high grades...

Ugh, yeah I mean now that card doctoring is getting more popular you might be right. 3s and 4s are no longer safe in their plastic haha

[atk825]

I’m not brand new releases, PSA 9 have better chances of gemming at PSA than average raw cards.

[TheFrenzy]

Ayoooooooo!

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by atk825

I’m not brand new releases, PSA 9 have better chances of gemming at PSA than average raw cards.

Haha that's what I was thinking. A good eye for 9s can crack and gem at a better rate than random raw on a lot of sets. I'm not sure if that's true, since I've never tried it...but I suspect it is, since we all know that a certain percentage of cards could go either way on any given day.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Haha that's what I was thinking. A good eye for 9s can crack and gem at a better rate than random raw on a lot of sets. I'm not sure if that's true, since I've never tried it...but I suspect it is, since we all know that a certain percentage of cards could go either way on any given day.

Slabbed cards can be either growers (grade better on resub) or showers (already graded higher than it should be).

[JustRachel]

Haha definitely.

Even if cracking decent 9s yielded a better gem rate than random raw cards, it wouldn't matter. Who grades random raw cards? People are selective.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Buyers are responsible for doing their due diligence.

But in e-commerce, buyers don't have the ability to properly inspect the condition of a card -- it's up to the seller to describe the condition of the card or any history it may have.