Kurt's Card Care F'ed around and found out

[hermanotarjeta]

I can’t wait for TPG employees to unionize.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by jacksonjj

The context is the Wemby, not the other decertified ones.

PSA will NEVER decertify the Wemby no matter what. To decertify a +1mm card and permanently destroy the reputation of his most important card would ruin PSA's rep and an enormous lawsuit would ensue. PSA is avoiding that possibility like the plague. Much safer to double down on your 10 grade and no one in their right mind will ever crack it and send it to a lab for analysis. The worst case scenario if they ignore it is message boards debating it. If they decertify it, the worse case scenario is all hell breaks loose.

There's also a difference between the two instances. There was video proof of Kurt soaking the card. The Wemby has a video of a guy shouting out Kurt's. If there was a video showing them actually doing something to the Wemby, it would have forced PSA to deactivate it.

[jacksonjj]

Originally Posted by whitmm

There's also a difference between the two instances. There was video proof of Kurt soaking the card. The Wemby has a video of a guy shouting out Kurt's. If there was a video showing them actually doing something to the Wemby, it would have forced PSA to deactivate it.

Which is obviously why and how PSA gets away with doubling down on their Wemby grade. If there was concrete proof then PSA would've been forced to admit the horrific error.

But...there was no error. PSA wanted that card in their slab period. No amount of wax was going to ruin that. There's too many marquee black prizms in BGS labels and PSA needed an iconic black gem 10 and that's what they got. The writing is on the wall.

[superdan49]

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by jacksonjj

Which is obviously why and how PSA gets away with doubling down on their Wemby grade. If there was concrete proof then PSA would've been forced to admit the horrific error.

But...there was no error. PSA wanted that card in their slab period. No amount of wax was going to ruin that. There's too many marquee black prizms in BGS labels and PSA needed an iconic black gem 10 and that's what they got. The writing is on the wall.

Exactly. And I don't agree with willie's comment about the owner not denying anything. He said there was no residue, no substance, no foreign product on the card. Then he said "Can we put this to rest?" That certainly sounds like a denial. Basically saying there was nothing on the card, so please stop saying the card is altered.

It took all of one card for PSA to grade an altered card and they continue to stand by that grade, so I'm not entirely sure what people are expecting?

[Bunny Hop]

This is good for K's business and good for PSA's business. Unfortunately it's yet another pain point for consumers and collectors.

[williemayshayes]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Exactly. And I don't agree with willie's comment about the owner not denying anything. He said there was no residue, no substance, no foreign product on the card. Then he said "Can we put this to rest?" That certainly sounds like a denial. Basically saying there was nothing on the card, so please stop saying the card is altered.

It took all of one card for PSA to grade an altered card and they continue to stand by that grade, so I'm not entirely sure what people are expecting?

It certainly may be the case that the card never got a bath.

I think a vast majority of folks think it was Kurt'ed, PSA can't prove it (twice) and therefore the owner just wants that thought to go away so protentional buyers won't go away.

If you bought a Powerball ticket, got the cartoon sized check for 300M and immediately said, "shout out to Big Red Liquor and Lotto"...I think most would assume that is where you bought the ticket.

[hermanotarjeta]

Every slabbed card you purchase has been altered.

Every customer who buys a slabbed card from you even though you pulled it yourself and graded it yourself will think that it’s altered.

In the end, graded card = altered card.

Think twice before you buy a slabbed card.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by williemayshayes

It certainly may be the case that the card never got a bath.

I think a vast majority of folks think it was Kurt'ed, PSA can't prove it (twice) and therefore the owner just wants that thought to go away so protentional buyers won't go away.

If you bought a Powerball ticket, got the cartoon sized check for 300M and immediately said, "shout out to Big Red Liquor and Lotto"...I think most would assume that is where you bought the ticket.

Sounds like the kind of place shady dudes stand around in the parking lot smelling like weed and looking to sell you a used watch.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

This is just PR fodder for PSA. Taking real action would tank their company.

Agree. Just a few weeks ago when reaching out about one of your newest threads of similarly documented altered cards, psa management said this exact situation (blanket deactivation) wasn't something they do.

Even though psa had previously done a blanket deactivation of a dozen or so trimmed Contenders autographs from the same group (admitted were being "investigated"), previous psa images and reviews aren't reliable evidence.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by williemayshayes

It certainly may be the case that the card never got a bath.

I think a vast majority of folks think it was Kurt'ed, PSA can't prove it (twice) and therefore the owner just wants that thought to go away so protentional buyers won't go away.

If you bought a Powerball ticket, got the cartoon sized check for 300M and immediately said, "shout out to Big Red Liquor and Lotto"...I think most would assume that is where you bought the ticket.

Yeah, that sounds exactly like a denial to me. He basically implied that since PSA didn't find any residue of any sort (not that anyone believes they truly looked hard) because he didn't use anything.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I agree with you that it will eventually evolve to this in the card industry. I can also see it hurting card prices because of the stigma of authentic altered.

I also believe the TPG still don’t have the expertise or human power to accurately grade the volume of submissions they receive.

Professional graders will eventually need to be certified themselves by some organization to be deemed a legitimate examiner with competent skills. And they will still miss a significant amount of alterations.

Not if we are grading 1.7 million cards per month. I don't think we will ever see grading certs. That would just increase labor costs. PSA want cheaper labor or tools that would increase output without increasing labor (automation).

ultra modern stuff, i believe, only gets a cursory look before assigning a grade. Even easy at PSA without a 9.5 to think about. Coin toss a large chunk between a 9 and 10 and call it a day.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by superdan49

So they just ignore all memes here in Baseball?

This is quality and I tip my hat.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I agree with you that it will eventually evolve to this in the card industry. I can also see it hurting card prices because of the stigma of authentic altered.

I also believe the TPG still don’t have the expertise or human power to accurately grade the volume of submissions they receive.

Professional graders will eventually need to be certified themselves by some organization to be deemed a legitimate examiner with competent skills. And they will still miss a significant amount of alterations.

Where does this certification organization come from? You would need people already in the business, so people from PSA and BGS?

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

Not if we are grading 1.7 million cards per month. I don't think we will ever see grading certs. That would just increase labor costs. PSA want cheaper labor or tools that would increase output without increasing labor (automation).

ultra modern stuff, i believe, only gets a cursory look before assigning a grade. Even easy at PSA without a 9.5 to think about. Coin toss a large chunk between a 9 and 10 and call it a day.

Shows you exactly how fraudulent current day grading standards are.

Yet nobody cares because as long as people can sell a card for more money slabbed, regardless if it has been worked on or not, it doesn’t matter.

If people are willing to pay high dollars for cards that have been altered, the low standards will continue.

The industry has spoken and they value volume over quality. I suppose people’s lives are not at stake so it doesn’t matter. We’re not talking about airplanes or surgeries here. It’s just cardboard.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Shows you exactly how fraudulent current day grading standards are.

Yet nobody cares because as long as people can sell a card for more money slabbed, regardless if it has been worked on or not, it doesn’t matter.

If people are willing to pay high dollars for cards that have been altered, the low standards will continue.

The industry has spoken and they value volume over quality. I suppose people’s lives are not at stake so it doesn’t matter. We’re not talking about airplanes or surgeries here. It’s just cardboard.

It’s another race to extinction. In the near future PSA throws up their hands and says, “my bad, we’re done”. But only after the insiders have divested themselves.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by larry25

Barf. I'm a collector! No, you're not, I'm a collector! Double barf.

If you can’t figure out who is who you’re already targeted.

[whitmm]

Somebody at PSA should probably place an order or two to Kurt's and start testing this stuff to learn how to detect it.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Somebody at PSA should probably place an order or two to Kurt's and start testing this stuff to learn how to detect it.

They should hire him. All the crooks already work for the hobby marketplace

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

They should hire him. All the crooks already work for the hobby marketplace

Why are you so paranoid about ( or maybe jealous of? ) the successful people / companies in our hobby?

[Neal]

Originally Posted by hammertime

The real question is if he had been less of an idiot about showing off, would PSA (or anyone else) ever have known?

Nope

He isn't the first and won't be the last to improve a card for grading.

He showed the cert and effed up ...

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Why are you so paranoid about ( or maybe jealous of? ) the successful people / companies in our hobby?

They’re called trading cards, but MTP feels they should be sold from the manufacturer only, and once acquired by a person, it should be buried with them. Anything less makes you not a “true collector”.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Neal

Nope

He isn't the first and won't be the last to improve a card for grading.

He showed the cert and effed up ...

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Even then PSA didn't do anything. Another person who is pretty big in the altered card world reached out to them.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

They’re called trading cards, but MTP feels they should be sold from the manufacturer only, and once acquired by a person, and from there it should be buried with them. Anything less makes you not a “true collector”.

I think he's a closeted dealer. He's repressing deep-seated urges to profit off his cards, so he prays away the pay, and overcompensates with his blowout persona.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Why are you so paranoid about ( or maybe jealous of? ) the successful people / companies in our hobby?

Why are you sticking up for the crooks or don’t care about them?

Better yet, how’s your investment business doing?

Edit: it’s not a hobby for those who profit off it.