Bad Experience: Pmacscollectibles AKA Sports Nuts

[Theprinceofpriz]

I purchased a Greg Olsen 2015 white sparkle prizm almost four months ago on Ebay from the account listed below. The packaging was delivered in a clear bag from USPS that says Delivered Unsealed. There was nothing inside and it looked like it got hit by a bus. I tried to contact the seller but was ignored and then gaslighted and told that the package was delivered. I filed a dispute with ebay, but since the packaging was delivered they ruled against me. Based on what USPS says they never had the card either, but delivered the packaging per the shipping label. At no point in the shipping process was the card in the packaging.

Three months later, ebay ruled against me and my credit card will not refund me the money either because according to the tracking the package was delivered. I left bad feedback on the seller's page, but he must have had it taken down due to some strongly worded messages I send him at the end of the process

A few weeks ago their response to me when I told him I was taking situation public was:

Sports Nuts/pmacscollectibles: "you can say what ever you like i put the card in the package the post office lost it like they do 1000s of dollars i put out. that is why we run everything through ebay so they can see . i will be sending all this to them also. sorry you did notr get what you paid for or maybe you did, but i am only responsible until it said delivered"

At the very least this guy is careless and will not work with you to fix his poor packaging practices. He loses thousands of dollars of cards to usps but acts like the buyer is at fault. Based on my messages with him and how they handled the situation I would buy elsewhere.

Whether this is a packaging issue or something underhanded there are plenty of good sellers out there and lots of cards to buy, so I recommend avoiding this one. https://www.ebay.com/str/pmacscollectibles Thanks for reading.

[shrevecity]

Mistake you made filing not received filing not as described is how you file when you get an empty envelope

Honestly not seeing how the seller is fully at fault. You state it looked like it was run over. It said recieved open but that could have been added anywhere enroute

Feedback was automatically removed because the case was ruled in the sellers favor.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by Theprinceofpriz

I purchased a Greg Olsen 2015 white sparkle prizm almost four months ago on Ebay from the account listed below. The packaging was delivered in a clear bag from USPS that says Delivered Unsealed. There was nothing inside and it looked like it got hit by a bus. I tried to contact the seller but was ignored and then gaslighted and told that the package was delivered. I filed a dispute with ebay, but since the packaging was delivered they ruled against me. Based on what USPS says they never had the card either, but delivered the packaging per the shipping label. At no point in the shipping process was the card in the packaging.

Three months later, ebay ruled against me and my credit card will not refund me the money either because according to the tracking the package was delivered. I left bad feedback on the seller's page, but he must have had it taken down due to some strongly worded messages I send him at the end of the process

A few weeks ago their response to me when I told him I was taking situation public was:

Sports Nuts/pmacscollectibles: "you can say what ever you like i put the card in the package the post office lost it like they do 1000s of dollars i put out. that is why we run everything through ebay so they can see . i will be sending all this to them also. sorry you did notr get what you paid for or maybe you did, but i am only responsible until it said delivered"

At the very least this guy is careless and will not work with you to fix his poor packaging practices. He loses thousands of dollars of cards to usps but acts like the buyer is at fault. Based on my messages with him and how they handled the situation I would buy elsewhere.

Whether this is a packaging issue or something underhanded there are plenty of good sellers out there and lots of cards to buy, so I recommend avoiding this one. https://www.ebay.com/str/pmacscollectibles Thanks for reading.

How do you know this?

That said, the seller admitting this means they should be liable to refund you, but as shreve said, you filed your case incorrectly.

[DynaEtch]

As mentioned...Item not as described in this case, as Item not received's will be closed automatically in seller's favor.

But Ive never had this happen...curious what exactly the buyer returns in an INAD case here...nothing? The torn up envelope itself inside a box? Seller probably claims return not matching what was sent and it's a mess. Maybe ebay saves the day and steps in and starts refunding everything, wouldnt be surprised.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

As mentioned...Item not as described in this case, as Item not received's will be closed automatically in seller's favor.

But Ive never had this happen...curious what exactly the buyer returns in an INAD case here...nothing? The torn up envelope itself inside a box? Seller probably claims return not matching what was sent and it's a mess. Maybe ebay saves the day and steps in and starts refunding everything, wouldnt be surprised.

Ebay refunding it here is the ideal situation since it's really a total he said she said. You could argue the bag proves tge buyers case but I have seen packages arrive in worse condition in a baggie like that an item be fine. So what is to say that did not happen? Tge fact ebay makes the buyer return the package to the seller voids usps insurance on the item. Generally if the buyers reason matches the return there is not much a seller can do. But say buyer said item damaged and returned nothing it could snag the process.

Ideally the buyer and seller should try to take advantage of the time ebay allows for a return to be shipped back and get the usps involved by filing an insurance claim or filing with slipcover if they used that. If that does not resolve in the time then the whole thing should be returned that way seller still has it and it was already on file so should not void the original insurance

[Sonnys88]

Doesn't seem like they are a "bad" seller or doing anything nefarious. They sell a good amount and have 100% feedback.

I agree that the eBay claim was not filed correctly and the wrong option was chosen for the claim. Ebay does not know any other info than what the tracking says and they will always go by that on "item not received" claims.

Also, eBay sellers can really only go by what the tracking says as well. There are tons of scammers out there who claim they receive empty packages or did not receive their package at all even when it says it was delivered - not saying that is what happened here - But, if a seller had to refund for every time a buyer said their package was empty it would open up the flood gates for scammers.

Most likely the card was just lost in transit with the USPS...

[shrevecity]

One unknown here too is how did tge op handle it in regards to hus messaging. That can go a long way in determining how the seller will handle a situation.

[longhornjunkie]

I have bought from PMac many times on different platforms. He is also SPORTSNUTS on Buysportscards and Birmingham Sports Cards on Beckett. I have run into very minor issues occasionally but nothing that keeps me from buying from him again. His packaging is fine. He has refunded missing cards, etc. and I believe he would have come clean and refunded you if the card turned in up in his possession.

Your picture is small but it looks like the bottom was ripped open. This has happened to me over the years as well. Is it theft, is it machinery? I don't know, but I don't think it's the seller's fault for poor USPS handling of a bubble mailer. If he brazenly shipped a stack of cards in a PWE that might be a different story.

Originally Posted by Theprinceofprizm

At no point in the shipping process was the card in the packaging.

...At the very least this guy is careless and will not work with you to fix his poor packaging practices.

...Whether this is a packaging issue or something underhanded there are plenty of good sellers out there

So you don't seem to be so sure what really happened here. It sounds like you should have just asked him to file a USPS insurance claim. $100 of insurance is included with Ground Advantage. Again the bottom is ripped off the package so I don't think you have a way to prove the card was never inside.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by longhornjunkie

I have bought from PMac many times on different platforms. He is also SPORTSNUTS on Buysportscards and Birmingham Sports Cards on Beckett. I have run into very minor issues occasionally but nothing that keeps me from buying from him again. His packaging is fine. He has refunded missing cards, etc. and I believe he would have come clean and refunded you if the card turned in up in his possession.



Your picture is small but it looks like the bottom was ripped open. This has happened to me over the years as well. Is it theft, is it machinery? I don't know, but I don't think it's the seller's fault for poor USPS handling of a bubble mailer. If he brazenly shipped a stack of cards in a PWE that might be a different story.







So you don't seem to be so sure what really happened here. It sounds like you should have just asked him to file a USPS insurance claim. $100 of insurance is included with Ground Advantage. Again the bottom is ripped off the package so I don't think you have a way to prove the card was never inside.

This is sort of glossing over that it's the seller's responsibility to get the card to the buyer. Yes of course the seller does not actually control what happens at USPS or if a package goes missing or stolen, but that doesnt matter in terms of their responsibility to get card to buyer in condition as described.

Seller filing insurance claim is a separate matter more just for the seller, not really relevant to OPs situation.

If we are taking as a granted OP did in fact not receive the card in the package (as shreve pointed out, this is not a certainty, but Im say it's very likely given what Im seeing, probably 90%+ chance), then the correct outcome of this situation would be seller refunds OP (since seller is responsible for getting package to buyer in described condition), and seller pursues insurance claim for reimbursement of his loss. It is very possible if OP filed for INAD they'd win it and get refunded....I've never been in this situation so no guarantees, but being a he/said she/said does not prevent that. A dishonest seller could mail someone a common base instead of an 86 Fleer Jordan RC and buyer just the same could file for INAD and presumably win, despite being a he said/she said. And in that case actually, I think we can all agree ebay should not be stepping in and refunding both parties.

[longhornjunkie]

I can't dispute what you said about the seller's responsibility. The insurance claim route would have been the right way to go. But I do dispute what OP says about this seller being dishonest, and all the inconsistencies and lack of common sense in his approach - acting like somehow the package wasn't delivered (we see the picture), the USPS never had the card, the seller's fault the package got hit by a bus, etc. If these wild claims were thrown at me I'd probably get derailed too like PMac did.

[Cactuspies]

FWIW, my MIL ordered some stuff on Amazon a month or so ago, the place didn't seal the envelope (huge bubble mailer), everything fell out at some point and the driver gave us an empty mailer. this picture provided says the mailer was not sealed, so the seller did mess up, the card was probably in there, and now at the bottom of a mail box or carrier bag, car, crate.

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by Cactuspies

FWIW, my MIL ordered some stuff on Amazon a month or so ago, the place didn't seal the envelope (huge bubble mailer), everything fell out at some point and the driver gave us an empty mailer. this picture provided says the mailer was not sealed, so the seller did mess up, the card was probably in there, and now at the bottom of a mail box or carrier bag, car, crate.

I guess we are going to have our own thoughts and opinions, but it does appear to me that the envelope was sealed and only became unsealed when the USPS ripped open the bottom. I can't see a problem with how the seller shipped, but that's just IMHO.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by longhornjunkie

I can't dispute what you said about the seller's responsibility. The insurance claim route would have been the right way to go. But I do dispute what OP says about this seller being dishonest, and all the inconsistencies and lack of common sense in his approach - acting like somehow the package wasn't delivered (we see the picture), the USPS never had the card, the seller's fault the package got hit by a bus, etc. If these wild claims were thrown at me I'd probably get derailed too like PMac did.

I agree the bolded is not justified. In fact im guessing likeliest scenario is seller sent out card as described (was not being nefarious), and something happened to this package during USPS transit and card went lost.

There are different things being discussed here. Let us assume that the buyer did in fact not receive the card in the package (I would say this is probably what happened given the above). Whether seller or USPS was personally responsible for the lost card shouldnt even matter for buyer getting a refund, this is all a moot point. Either case,

1. It was sellers fault: they either didnt put the card in, didnt seal bubble mailer properly, or whatever..........buyer should get refunded by seller.

2. It was USPS's fault: seller did everything right, got smashed by a USPS machine or truck or whatever....buyer should get refunded by seller.

All Im saying is if the buyer really didnt get a card in the mail (and they themselves know that), they have a legitimate gripe and should be entitled to a refund based on ebay's rules and seller being responsible for getting card to buyer. So I can understand buyer's frustration with seller, but again it goes back to filing the claim correctly with INAD.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by Cactuspies

FWIW, my MIL ordered some stuff on Amazon a month or so ago, the place didn't seal the envelope (huge bubble mailer), everything fell out at some point and the driver gave us an empty mailer. this picture provided says the mailer was not sealed, so the seller did mess up, the card was probably in there, and now at the bottom of a mail box or carrier bag, car, crate.

The put the same sticker on when they find it open. Also does not take rocket science to tell if a bubble mailer was sealed or not. The op did not take a photo of the seal so it's all speculation.

In the end no matter what gripe the buyer has tgey failed to go through the process correctly. Ebay even tells you that you file empty packages as not as described. It's not the sellers job to hold the buyers hand through the process.

There still seems to be alot of info missing here and I get tge feeling the buyers messages did not encourage the seller to want to bother. Op even said his neg had very strong language. This neg in most cases would have had to been left before the case was ruled in sellers favor. Once that happened in most cases tge ability to even leave feedback is removed. .

[LondonGames]

Originally Posted by Theprinceofpriz

A few weeks ago their response to me when I told him I was taking situation public was:

Lost me at gaslighted.

Birmingham is one of the best and while this is unfortunate, threatening a seller that you're going to "go public", basically demanding they take a loss here "or else" is the only thing definitely wrong in this scenario.

Had you just told your side of the story without using "outing" him as a threat to have him bend the knee, you would get some sympathy. But having done that you'll not only get zero but you are the bad actor in this scenario.

Threatening people is not cool and extortion is not what this forum is for. So please don't come here and abuse the forum and sellers like this.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by LondonGames

Lost me at gaslighted.

Birmingham is one of the best and while this is unfortunate, threatening a seller that you're going to "go public", basically demanding they take a loss here "or else" is the only thing definitely wrong in this scenario.

Had you just told your side of the story without using "outing" him as a threat to have him bend the knee, you would get some sympathy. But having done that you'll not only get zero but you are the bad actor in this scenario.

Threatening people is not cool and extortion is not what this forum is for. So please don't come here and abuse the forum and sellers like this.

I was just thinking about the threat part. I am feeling it goes back to what I said about the communication from the op in this. Provides another clue the OPs messages may have played a big role in how this went down