The Official 2023 NFC North Thread

[Boo]

Originally Posted by jplarson

I'm surprised you thought I knew how to read

I had some education in the CPS system.

Spent more time in the required Dodging Bullets class than Reading?

[packman80]

So GB needs to beat the evil SF 49ers and the Lions the murderous pirate Bucs so we can have a NFC North NFCC.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by jplarson

I'm surprised you thought I knew how to read

I had some education in the CPS system.

fair.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by packman80

So GB needs to beat the evil SF 49ers and the Lions the murderous pirate Bucs so we can have a NFC North NFCC.

I’m ready.

Is this thread?

[erock28]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

I’m ready.

Is this thread?

An all NFC North NFCCG is the game the world craves, but does not deserve!

[oldgoldy97]

As someone said, it’s 3/4 of the old NFC Central.

[oldgoldy97]

Nice job, Vikes

[erock28]

Totally and completely non flippant question for the Bears and Vikings fans out there...curious as to how you view your teams entering the off season? What holes do you see, what would you do if in the GM chair? I'm a fan of all 4 major sports, and while a more passionate baseball fan than any other, I don't follow/track intra-division teams much other than the NFL. My opinions on them, take with a grain...

Bears
Obviously it all hinges on how they view Fields vs. the other QBs in the draft. I'm not personally high on Maye, Daniels or Penix, and Williams screams 'bust' (and allegedly/maybe doesn't want to be a Bear anyways?). Given Chicago might be the toughest home venue to be a QB from October on, I think they should target either a solid dual threat guy (which they already have in Fields) or a good game manager who will take care of the football yet be fully capable of engineering long drives (think JJ McCarthy). Focus on winning with defense and a run game - it's the proven Chicago way even as the NFL has migrated to pass first offenses. It's not easy to pass in Solider Field with 30 MPH winds that will alternate between straight line gusts and swirling. In my eyes, so long as Fields still has the confidence in the locker room, you keep him and build out around him. He's shown enough glimpses to be dangerous if he is allowed to play to his strengths. He'll never be a 3-4 read pocket guy - when in that spot he gets sacked and commits turnovers. Run heavy offense, throw 20-25 times per game on "1-2 read then move" type plays, he could win a Bowl. That said, I would try and trade 1.1. They could net a top 10 pick, 2nd round 2024, first or second in 2025 dependent on the partner. That would be 4 top-75 picks including two in the top ten. Get a stud WR, LT, corner and edge rusher with those four. Round out the draft with rotational guys, re-sign Jaylon Johnson and add some interior line help in free agency...and they can be right there competing for the division. Thoughts?

Vikings
In my opinion, they are in the worst shape of the four in the division and by a wide margin. Starting of course with the QB situation. Cousins has proven to be a very good NFL quarterback, but likely not one with any future growth even if he were to come back to the Vikes. He'll also be 36 when the season starts. Nothing on their depth chart screams future starter...so the QB cupboard is looking bare. It doesn't help their case that they have only two top 100 picks. If it were me, I would scout/interview/workout the living hell out of Penix and Bo Nix, both guys that SHOULD be there at pick 1.11. If one of them looks to be the dude of the future, they absolutely need to sign a solid veteran to start/mentor the rookie for the entirety of the 2024 season. Let Penix/Nix sit on the bench and just learn. While the wide receiver duo of JJ/JA is about as good as it gets for a young QB, the leaky line will likely crush confidence and stall the development process. On the defensive side of the ball, if they lose Hunter in FA...ouchie. It's impressive that Flores cobbled even a mediocre season out of that defensive unit. While slightly better than 2022, they were NOT good statistically. If Hunter goes, they're in a lot of trouble given the lack of high end draft capital and not-so-good cap situation. I guess if I were running the show, I'd strongly committing to a rebuild, especially if you believe the QB you can get in round 1 has future All Pro potential. Trade out some of the higher dollar talent for picks, focus on scouting and development, and hope that after 2-3 years of lean seasons you can put a young, talent loaded team out there. Thoughts from MN?

[oldgoldy97]

Draft Nix, draft a DE, let Hunter walk, trade JJ, let Kirk go. Total rebuild. Save the money on JJ, Kirk and Hunter and aim at 2025. Bolster both lines (O and D). Signing JJ to a big deal is wasting him. I’d be happy for him to team with Patty.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by erock28

Totally and completely non flippant question for the Bears and Vikings fans out there...curious as to how you view your teams entering the off season? What holes do you see, what would you do if in the GM chair? I'm a fan of all 4 major sports, and while a more passionate baseball fan than any other, I don't follow/track intra-division teams much other than the NFL. My opinions on them, take with a grain...

Bears
Obviously it all hinges on how they view Fields vs. the other QBs in the draft. I'm not personally high on Maye, Daniels or Penix, and Williams screams 'bust' (and allegedly/maybe doesn't want to be a Bear anyways?). Given Chicago might be the toughest home venue to be a QB from October on, I think they should target either a solid dual threat guy (which they already have in Fields) or a good game manager who will take care of the football yet be fully capable of engineering long drives (think JJ McCarthy). Focus on winning with defense and a run game - it's the proven Chicago way even as the NFL has migrated to pass first offenses. It's not easy to pass in Solider Field with 30 MPH winds that will alternate between straight line gusts and swirling. In my eyes, so long as Fields still has the confidence in the locker room, you keep him and build out around him. He's shown enough glimpses to be dangerous if he is allowed to play to his strengths. He'll never be a 3-4 read pocket guy - when in that spot he gets sacked and commits turnovers. Run heavy offense, throw 20-25 times per game on "1-2 read then move" type plays, he could win a Bowl. That said, I would try and trade 1.1. They could net a top 10 pick, 2nd round 2024, first or second in 2025 dependent on the partner. That would be 4 top-75 picks including two in the top ten. Get a stud WR, LT, corner and edge rusher with those four. Round out the draft with rotational guys, re-sign Jaylon Johnson and add some interior line help in free agency...and they can be right there competing for the division. Thoughts?

I'm saving my answer for the 2024 NFC North thread. Need to keep my bad future takes in the right year.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by jplarson

I'm saving my answer for the 2024 NFC North thread. Need to keep my bad future takes in the right year.

Most years we could have started the NFCN 2024 thread by now.

An all-NFCN NFCG in Detroit would be glorious!

[erock28]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Draft Nix, draft a DE, let Hunter walk, trade JJ, let Kirk go. Total rebuild. Save the money on JJ, Kirk and Hunter and aim at 2025. Bolster both lines (O and D). Signing JJ to a big deal is wasting him. I’d be happy for him to team with Patty.

I totally agree with you - couple of questions. Is the Minnesota leadership group capable of swallowing that awful pill? Some owners/GMs are too proud to admit they need a total overhaul and desperately try and stay on the fringes. Do you think they could be a division title competitor after only one year of rebuilding? You know the whole roster better than me...but to my eyes they have a lot more holes than can be patched in a single off-season...

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by erock28

I totally agree with you - couple of questions. Is the Minnesota leadership group capable of swallowing that awful pill? Some owners/GMs are too proud to admit they need a total overhaul and desperately try and stay on the fringes. Do you think they could be a division title competitor after only one year of rebuilding? You know the whole roster better than me...but to my eyes they have a lot more holes than can be patched in a single off-season...

The Wilfs want to win but aren’t as blustery about it as they used to be. I think the GM understands the cap challenges enough that he knows a rebuild is needed. I don’t think he understands talent enough to make the right choices, though. KOC…eh. Success last year might have ruined his ability to take one in the nuts.

[chris_ac]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

I’d be happy for him to team with Patty.

For the team that led in drops, sounds like a match made in VR. But realistically speaking, the contenders probably do not have the picks the Vikes would demand. Pat with JJ would be the new age GOAT/Moss hookup.

Also, I assume Jefferson has leverage since the new team needs him to sign on a dotted line for several years to serve up multiple picks. I saw an awful prediction of sending him to Zona to help Murray for the 4th pick plus plus. Please no.

[epatmythes]

Packers-Bucs NFCCC rematch...

But this time, with no Brady... and more importantly, no Rodgers, to mess it up!

Go Pack Go

(And if the more likely inverse happens, Lions-49ers, yeah, I'll pull for the Lions... painful as it will be)

[CC_123]

Originally Posted by erock28

I totally agree with you - couple of questions. Is the Minnesota leadership group capable of swallowing that awful pill? Some owners/GMs are too proud to admit they need a total overhaul and desperately try and stay on the fringes. Do you think they could be a division title competitor after only one year of rebuilding? You know the whole roster better than me...but to my eyes they have a lot more holes than can be patched in a single off-season...

It’s this simple. The Vikings aren’t trading Jefferson and the Wilf’s would never sign off on it. People saying to trade arguably the best receiver in the game are ridiculous. Especially when those same people want a young QB starting. You know which young QBs have had success overall early in their careers? The ones that have a stud, reliable WR. Addison is good, Hockenson is good, but you don’t replace a guy like JJ no matter how many picks you get. The narrative of trading JJ is an awful take and just simply not going to happen. People need to let it go.

Here is what likely happens with the Vikings. They will offer a contract to Kirk, likely a 2 year, around 55-60 million. 1st year will be completely guaranteed. Hunter will walk unless he loves playing for Flores THAT much to take a pay cut. Smith will take a pay cut again with a restructure to free some money. Sign Risner back and keep the offensive line together. Look for a DT in free agency. This team has some holes, but if Kirk doesn’t rip his Achilles, they make the playoffs and win 10+ games. They aren’t losing to Denver by 1, Chicago by 2, and Cincy by 3 with Kirk when they should’ve won those games with Dobbs/Mullens. The offense doesn’t have many holes overall. Offensive line could always be bolstered up but they were much improved last season until guys like Dobbs and Mullens were back there and don’t make as quick of decisions. The holes are on defense. Need an edge, CB, potentially a LB, and DT. Despite the holes, Flores did a nice job with the group.

Draft wise, they will do one of three things in the 1st, listed from most likely to least likely. They will take the best defensive player available at 11. This will be either a CB or Edge. Second option, they trade back from 11, gain some extra picks and end up in the 20s. Potentially to take someone like JJ McCarthy (who they’ve done the most homework on of every QB). Third, trade up to try and get McDaniels. What I see happening is the Vikings taking defense in the 1st and either taking a QB (Penix or Nix, both gross) in the second or trying to trade back into the late 1st for McCarthy. Regardless, they will take a QB this draft in round 1 or 2. And the QB they get is not going to be starter ready, hence why they will look to bring Kirk back for 2 years.

The roster, even with holes on defense, is still a contender for the division and to make the playoffs with Kirk under center. The offense is very good with Kirk out there and year 2 with Flores at the helm of the defense isn’t going to hurt. If they have to go down the Russell Wilson or rookie QB route next season, it is going to be ugly.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by Kent Clements

No you are the idiot that tried to convince everyone that the Giants and Jets aren't New York teams. Get your lies straight !

Just a refresher for you... You tried to disqualify the Jets and Giants, since only the Bills played in the state of New York. And I correctly pointed out what a moron you were for that. I stated, correctly, the city of New York had 2 teams. And for some reason, you didnt like that. This has to be so embarrassing for you...

Originally Posted by Kent Clements

Sorry but I do not live in the past.You do realize that it is almost 40 years since the Bears won the Super Bowl !
Also,know your history better,there is only one NFL team that plays its home games in New York state.

Originally Posted by Grid

I do! 37 years since winning a Super Bowl. And 16 years since playing in one. The poke to the Lions is, they have done neither

And when did I claim the Giants and Jets played their home games in New York? Everyone knows they physically play in the state of New Jersey. But as long as they want to call themselves "New York", how does that disqualify them as "New York" teams?

Are we supposed to call them the Arlington Cowboys? And is it the Santa Clara 49ers?

Please teach us some more Professor!

Originally Posted by Kent Clements

Didn't you say, guy from New York that has two teams ?

Originally Posted by Grid

I did. Are you really going to argue both the New York Jets and the New York Giants aren't really New York teams, because their stadium stands 5 miles outside New York City?

Ive already pointed out the hypocrisy of the Arlington Cowboys and Santa Clara 49ers. If you don't like it, take it up with the league. Not with me.

Or if you argument is that you are a Bills Fan, in the state of New York. That isn't much better than being a Lions fan now. Which Super Bowl did the Bills win again?

Originally Posted by Kent Clements

Grid;

Just because it doesn't meet your requirements, does not mean it is wrong.

Enjoy the game this weekend.

[Grid]

Back on Topic. I have the Lions winning over the Bucs and the Packers falling to the 49ers.

Lions make, and lose, the NFC Championship game. And Hairy back tracks his earlier statement, that just playing in the conference championship is worthless. And that making it that far, doesn't make it a successful season. And Detroit immediately hangs a NFC Runner Up banner at Ford Field.

[cnewby]

I can feel how much this hurts you.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by Grid

Back on Topic. I have the Lions winning over the Bucs and the Packers falling to the 49ers.

Lions make, and lose, the NFC Championship game. And Hairy back tracks his earlier statement, that just playing in the conference championship is worthless. And that making it that far, doesn't make it a successful season. And Detroit immediately hangs a NFC Runner Up banner at Ford Field.

What are you talking about?? This is whack.

[packman80]

So Chicago preparing to draft Willliams by looking to hire his college OC? Kliff Kingsbury getting interview in Chicago for OC job.

[oldgoldy97]

Reeke looks good in blue.

[oldgoldy97]

Stroud, Lamar, Patty, Love….lots of stud WRs they are throwing to.

[epatmythes]

Originally Posted by packman80

So Chicago preparing to draft Willliams by looking to hire his college OC? Kliff Kingsbury getting interview in Chicago for OC job.

The Bears, and their fans, are still living in '85...

Williams will be the 85th QB in Chicago Bears history.

85th time's the charm?

Can a quarterback wear #85???

[CC_123]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Stroud, Lamar, Patty, Love….lots of stud WRs they are throwing to.

Nico Collins is 8th in the league in receiving yards.

Ravens are one of the few run heavy, rely on defense teams in the league. That model is hard to excel at in todays game. You don’t need a valuable receiver when you can do that. Very few can these days.

Mahomes has had the worst year of his career with the receivers he has had. Another team relying on defense to keep them in and win games right now.

Love doesn’t have any stud receivers, correct, but they are just hitting a hot stride where everything is going good.

Give up on the idea of trading Jefferson. It is absolutely asinine to think it’s the right move. Just like thinking Nix is the future at QB. Both absolutely horrendous takes.