2023-24 NBA Season Thread

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mjekase

They’ve been reducing back-to-backs over the past decade or so. You can’t get rid of them - unless you want a longer season - because in the end they’re what allows for travel, rest and practice.

The schedule is always imbalanced ... every team will go through a peak and valley of difficulty throughout the season.

Denver has already played 5 B2B's in 21 games. They play another five before January 5th / which will be three more than any other team at that point of the season.

But then in the last 45 games, they have just three more. In fact, they go a whole 45 days without playing one so while you'd love for teams to have a balanced schedule throughout, there are extremes that everyone will have to deal with. It's why trying to compare teams early in the season is almost impossible ... schedules are just so different it's really not fair.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by tjforce

It's rare that a 9 point road win feels gross, but alas, Cavs were in Detroit tonight.

If you missed this one, congrats on having something better to do on a Saturday.

At some point the organization is gonna have to come to the realization that JB sucks as a HC for a team with expectations. He lacks any ability to adjust in game.

His press conference after the Portland game was a perfect example. Someone asked why they stopped going to the paint and he said because the blazers started switching… like… that’s it? They make a single adjustment and your whole game plan is dead and you just go iso ball? It’s awful.

The Pistons are one of the worst teams I’ve ever watched.they have absolutely no cohesion, can’t shoot worth a damn, and their best player isn’t that good and they still nearly beat the Cavs. Super frustrating watching this Cavs team.

[jcardstore]

Oh and Donovan Mitchell shot sub 40% again with a team worst -13. Every 10th game he drops 40 and everyone forgets about the other 9 where he shoots the air out of the ball.

This team would be so much better off right now had we just kept Lauri and ran the triple big lineup…

[Nomad]

I presume Markannen and Mitchell rookies still running neck and neck?

[bradjames12]

Last night the Pacers missed 15 shots in the 1st quarter

They missed 14 shots the rest of the game...

Without Haliburton playing..

Unreal

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

the low-IQ people running the league just can't figure out a way to reduce or eliminate B2Bs

Originally Posted by PLB9eight

What’s your proposal?

spread the season out another 10 days or so, should eliminate all but a few B2Bs no?

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by bradjames12

Last night the Pacers missed 15 shots in the 1st quarter

They missed 14 shots the rest of the game...

Without Haliburton playing..

Unreal

It's not by design but it is by design. You get Nesmith, McConnell, Nembhard (and WIP Malthurin) running the secondary without interference, you get egoless lockdown and efficiency.

[bradjames12]

Originally Posted by Nomad

It's not by design but it is by design. You get Nesmith, McConnell, Nembhard (and WIP Malthurin) running the secondary without interference, you get egoless lockdown and efficiency.

Pacers got their a**es handed to them in the prior game vs the Heat with Hali dropping 44..

Nembhard was 1 of 9 from the field yesterday night

So which is it?

[Nomad]

Pacers have been getting their asses handed to them with Hali posting breathtaking offensive stats recently. Basically the dynamic is one where Hali surrounds himself with the vets Brown, Myles, Hield (and Obi), and the guys who actually know how to run the team as a unit, engineering attacks and responses when given full responsibility, are tentative and fragmented. Good shot opportunities are deferred and lost, and Brown is the only one among the vets with any real defense.

Once you get the secondary essentially leading the team, it clicks. See the 76ers play-in game when Myles and others fouled out as a template. That secondary-led win was more impressive than the subsequent record-breaking-score Atlanta play-in.

What you don't realize is that Nesmith is not starting but he is finishing 100 percent of games. The traditional hierarchies of the primary/secondary are being broken. Even 1-9, Nembhard had many good assists that led to the win. (A 1-9 Nemhart has vastly different value than a 1-10 Hield). And his starting effort helped contain the Heat and kept Indy within a few digits, when Nesmith and McConnell took over.

Transitions are complex admittedly. What we saw last night is such a far cry from that month last season when Hali was out and the Pacers dropped many games in a row. The emerging talent is now seasoned, tested, and ready. I just hope we don't go back to what was losing us games against Boston.

I actually think the system, as constructed, would not require Haliburton pointage to win and arguably the defensive deficiencies when he is on the court against A-list teams, are insurmountable, unless he is hitting everything. That is why I am pretty much doubling down on crash. It's prolly too late to build a truly great Nembhart collection, but he is the other I would be after.

[bradjames12]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Pacers have been getting their asses handed to them with Hali posting breathtaking offensive stats recently. Basically the dynamic is one where Hali surrounds himself with the vets Brown, Myles, Hield (and Obi), and the guys who actually know how to run the team as a unit, engineering attacks and responses when given full responsibility, are tentative and fragmented. Good shot opportunities are deferred and lost, and Brown is the only one among the vets with any real defense.

Once you get the secondary essentially leading the team, it clicks. See the 76ers play-in game when Myles and others fouled out as a template. That secondary-led win was more impressive than the subsequent record-breaking-score Atlanta play-in.

What you don't realize is that Nesmith is not starting but he is finishing 100 percent of games. The traditional hierarchies of the primary/secondary are being broken. Even 1-9, Nembhard had many good assists that led to the win. (A 1-9 Nemhart has vastly different value than a 1-10 Hield). And his starting effort helped contain the Heat and kept Indy within a few digits, when Nesmith and McConnell took over.

Transitions are complex admittedly. What we saw last night is such a far cry from that month last season when Hali was out and the Pacers dropped many games in a row. The emerging talent is now seasoned, tested, and ready. I just hope we don't go back to what was losing us games against Boston.

I actually think the system, as constructed, would not require Haliburton pointage to win and arguably the defensive deficiencies when he is on the court against A-list teams, are insurmountable, unless he is hitting everything. That is why I am pretty much doubling down on crash. It's prolly too late to build a truly great Nembhart collection, but he is the other I would be after.

You said a lot without actually saying anything.. and that is coming from Pacers fan

[Nomad]

Complex thought is never simple. Winning has a lot of moving parts. Just tell me what you think you are hearing and I can say yes or no. Basically I am saying Haliburton's effect on the team is overstated.

[bradjames12]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Complex thought is never simple. Winning has a lot of moving parts. Just tell me what you think you are hearing and I can say yes or no. Basically I am saying Haliburton's effect on the team is overstated.

If I had any idea what I was hearing I would respond to it

[ninjacookies]

Any of Indiana's woes are tied to them allowing a league-worst 126ppg.

Don't overthink this.

They are this year's version of last year's Kangs. Unless they somehow figure out how to stop turning games into all-star weekend, it won't lead to any type of meaningful postseason victories.

Fun to watch if you're an offensive fetishist though.

[Nomad]

I think they figured it out tho. Or did you not watch the last game. Just have the secondary shoot 72 percent and out hustle out rebound.

[daeve]

Top 5 4 player combinations ranked by net rating (min 250+):

Bos: Holiday-Brown-Tatum-Porzingis +17 !
Hou: FVV-Brooks-Smith-Sengun +11.5
Min: Conley-Edwards-KAT-Gobert +10.8
Hou: FVV-Green-Brooks-Sengun +10.6
Den: Jackson-KCP-MPJ-Jokic +9.5

[mtr]

Originally Posted by bradjames12

You said a lot without actually saying anything.. and that is coming from Pacers fan

Translation: Nesmith good, Haliburton bad.

[gomiamigo]

Kevin Durant passes Moses for 10th on the alltime scoring list.

Carmelo up next. That will take a bit longer.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by daeve

Top 5 4 player combinations ranked by net rating (min 250+):

Bos: Holiday-Brown-Tatum-Porzingis +17 !
Hou: FVV-Brooks-Smith-Sengun +11.5
Min: Conley-Edwards-KAT-Gobert +10.8
Hou: FVV-Green-Brooks-Sengun +10.6
Den: Jackson-KCP-MPJ-Jokic +9.5

FWIW, Shai-Chet-Jalen-Dort is +11.2, just missed your min cutoff by 4 minutes. And the Shai-Isaiah Joe backcourt combo with strong defenders around them have been devastating

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by daeve

Top 5 4 player combinations ranked by net rating (min 250+):

Bos: Holiday-Brown-Tatum-Porzingis +17 !
Hou: FVV-Brooks-Smith-Sengun +11.5
Min: Conley-Edwards-KAT-Gobert +10.8
Hou: FVV-Green-Brooks-Sengun +10.6
Den: Jackson-KCP-MPJ-Jokic +9.5

Why even filter by 4? We know who's driving the Rockets. The FVV/Sengun pairing is +9.5. Sengun is having an All-NBA level season right now, he probably won't make 3rd team but he's at least that good so far and I don't see why he won't keep getting better.

The best 5 man lineup is +8.9 which is 64th percentile, nothing to write home about. I'm still open to Jabari being a good player but Brooks isn't adding much and Jalen is a big negative.

4 is like an oddly specific lineup combo. If you expand it to 5 it makes a lot more sense. You've got multiple pre-Harden Clippers lineups, Boston, Philly, Pacers with god tier offense and a couple other oddballs.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

Kevin Durant passes Moses for 10th on the alltime scoring list.

we already all knew this, try adding more value than playoff embiid thanks

[daeve]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

FWIW, Shai-Chet-Jalen-Dort is +11.2, just missed your min cutoff by 4 minutes. And the Shai-Isaiah Joe backcourt combo with strong defenders around them have been devastating

I didn't set the cut-off, was some discussion on r/nba. But yeah figured some OKC and Orlando combos would be in there with different minimums

[mjekase]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

spread the season out another 10 days or so, should eliminate all but a few B2Bs no?

Players most likely wouldn't go for lengthening the season. They'd want fewer games, if anything. But good luck trying to get 10 games trimmed off the season via collective bargaining, given the amount of revenue that would shed.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Why even filter by 4? We know who's driving the Rockets. The FVV/Sengun pairing is +9.5. Sengun is having an All-NBA level season right now, he probably won't make 3rd team but he's at least that good so far and I don't see why he won't keep getting better.

The best 5 man lineup is +8.9 which is 64th percentile, nothing to write home about. I'm still open to Jabari being a good player but Brooks isn't adding much and Jalen is a big negative.

4 is like an oddly specific lineup combo. If you expand it to 5 it makes a lot more sense. You've got multiple pre-Harden Clippers lineups, Boston, Philly, Pacers with god tier offense and a couple other oddballs.

the OP in the r/nba discussion posted the top 3 and 4 player combos. I thought the 4's were more interesting - the top 4 player combo was a bigger outlier than the 3 iirc.

Brooks is sitting in 95th percentile Defensive EPM along with the likes of Caruso and Slender Mac and somehow Westbrook. There was also a 4-combo swapping out Smith for Green not much further down the list. The core of that young Rox is still Sengun-Smith-Green-Thompson but it does seem like the additions of Udoka, FVV, and Brooks have been beneficial. Don't forget they looked like barely an NBA team for most of last season.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by daeve

the OP in the r/nba discussion posted the top 3 and 4 player combos. I thought the 4's were more interesting - the top 4 player combo was a bigger outlier than the 3 iirc.

Brooks is sitting in 95th percentile Defensive EPM along with the likes of Caruso and Slender Mac and somehow Westbrook. There was also a 4-combo swapping out Smith for Green not much further down the list. The core of that young Rox is still Sengun-Smith-Green-Thompson but it does seem like the additions of Udoka, FVV, and Brooks have been beneficial. Don't forget they looked like barely an NBA team for most of last season.

idk what exactly is popping in EPM specifically because he's barely above average in D-DPM, is 35th percentile in defensive on/off splits (Rockets defense is 1.7pp100 better with him off), Box D-DPM has him significantly negative.

I certainly don't think he's a negative defender but don't think he's a 95th percentile defender either.

[bradjames12]

Originally Posted by Nomad

I think they figured it out tho. Or did you not watch the last game. Just have the secondary shoot 72 percent and out hustle out rebound.

The last game was a statistical conundrum that happens once in a lifetime..

And you called Haliburton (who is on the fringe of the MVP discussion) overrated in the prior game in which he scored 44..

So once again please come up with a coherent thought.. is it Hali or is the guy you drool over that doesn't warrant the thread you started?

Keep in mind you referenced Nembhard in your post in regards to the Saturday night game and he was 1 of 9 from the field...
.