***Official World Series Champion Houston Astros 2023 season thread ***

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by DigsUT

Brown out the pen I feel would be fine.

The only batter I would trust him pitching to at this time is Stevie Wonder.

Maybe


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[Jaysabz]

Honest question to Astros fans.

Do you feel that the trash can hitting scandal will ever fade away, or do you believe that all fans of all teams will never let the Astros live it down?

The Astros beat my hometown Phillies in the World Series last year - they were the better team. They were several years, and many players different, from the trash can hitting scandal, but in my uneducated opinion most fans of other teams still brought the previous "scandal" up and hated on them. In my opinion, it seems that most MLB fans, wherever they are from and for whatever team they root for, have just put the Astros on the black list.

Not trolling, just want to hear real opinions from Astros fans.

We might meet again in this post-season, if we can get through the Braves and Dbacks/Dodgers series winner. No easy task!

[Bars and Bar]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

Honest question to Astros fans.

Do you feel that the trash can hitting scandal will ever fade away, or do you believe that all fans of all teams will never let the Astros live it down?

The Astros beat my hometown Phillies in the World Series last year - they were the better team. They were several years, and many players different, from the trash can hitting scandal, but in my uneducated opinion most fans of other teams still brought the previous "scandal" up and hated on them. In my opinion, it seems that most MLB fans, wherever they are from and for whatever team they root for, have just put the Astros on the black list.

Not trolling, just want to hear real opinions from Astros fans.

We might meet again in this post-season, if we can get through the Braves and Dbacks/Dodgers series winner. No easy task!

It would be a lost story if the Astros weren’t always winning.

[Jaysabz]

Originally Posted by Bars and Bar

It would be a lost story i, but h the Astros weren’t always winning.

I appreciate the quote without reply - I'm asking Astros fans. You know your team cheated and were caught. Not in last years' World Series, you beat the Phillies fair and square. But in their previous World Series victory.

There may have been other teams who have cheated over the years, but none so obvious as the Astros.

I love my hometown teams, and I can't imagine what I would feel if part of their victories were because they cheated. So Astros' fans. Do you feel that all teams were doing it, and it was only your team that cheated, and later had player admit to it?

Do you not care, because the thrill of winning the World Series is a better than not winning?

[Bars and Bar]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

I appreciate the quote without reply - I'm asking Astros fans. You know your team cheated and were caught. Not in last years' World Series, you beat the Phillies fair and square. But in their previous World Series victory.

There may have been other teams who have cheated over the years, but none so obvious as the Astros.

I love my hometown teams, and I can't imagine what I would feel if part of their victories were because they cheated. So Astros' fans. Do you feel that all teams were doing it, and it was only your team that cheated, and later had player admit to it?

Do you not care, because the thrill of winning the World Series is a better than not winning?

Okay…….

[jduds]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

Honest question to Astros fans.

Do you feel that the trash can hitting scandal will ever fade away, or do you believe that all fans of all teams will never let the Astros live it down?

The Astros beat my hometown Phillies in the World Series last year - they were the better team. They were several years, and many players different, from the trash can hitting scandal, but in my uneducated opinion most fans of other teams still brought the previous "scandal" up and hated on them. In my opinion, it seems that most MLB fans, wherever they are from and for whatever team they root for, have just put the Astros on the black list.

Not trolling, just want to hear real opinions from Astros fans.

We might meet again in this post-season, if we can get through the Braves and Dbacks/Dodgers series winner. No easy task!

Not an Astros fan, but I think it will be a thing until Altuve leaves or retires.

[tyrith]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

I appreciate the quote without reply - I'm asking Astros fans. You know your team cheated and were caught. Not in last years' World Series, you beat the Phillies fair and square. But in their previous World Series victory.

There may have been other teams who have cheated over the years, but none so obvious as the Astros.

I love my hometown teams, and I can't imagine what I would feel if part of their victories were because they cheated. So Astros' fans. Do you feel that all teams were doing it, and it was only your team that cheated, and later had player admit to it?

Do you not care, because the thrill of winning the World Series is a better than not winning?

I'll give you a serious answer - and my answer is that no, I don't care, for a few different reasons.

1) It seems pretty clear that there were at least a couple of other teams exploring the same space. Being the best of those teams doesn't change the reality that other teams, by this definition, also cheated, and the world doesn't seem to care about that. That means it's about hating a winner versus hating the actual behavior, and I can't really respect that.

2) People use the word "cheating" as some catch all for a bunch of different forms of behavior. The electronic sign stealing, as such things go, seems pretty darn mild to me. Non-electronic sign stealing has long been part of baseball. Use of electronic tools in baseball, and other sports, has also been a thing - for instance, electronic review for instant replay challenges...but also things that are more clearly wrong, like reading the lips of opposing coaches play calls. The Astros didn't go bribing umpires, or providing false data, or anything like that. It was merely an extension of a variety of forms of existing behavior that, taken together, went too far.

3) The league has permitted significantly more distasteful forms of behavior and still celebrated those teams accomplishments. IMO, trading for Roberto Osuna, and the fact that he was tolerated in MLB, is dramatically worse than the trash can thing. One is trying to win a game; the other is someone that actually hurt people. Julio Urias was celebrated in a WS win after he was already suspended for DV, and what do you know, committed another one. There are a lot worse things than stealing signs.

4) The baseball fandom, at large, has been enormous jerks about the whole thing and is unwilling to discuss it rationally most of the time. For instance, I love houdini, but his continual instance on calling Altuve a cheater when there is a great deal of evidence he wanted nothing to do with it just comes off as rude, to put it politely. People being rude and jerks to you about something just hardens resistance. So the entire sports world being completely obnoxious about it has made me just want to rub victory in their faces.

There you go - a psychology about why, as a big Astros fan, I don't give a flip about trash cans. I'd love to actually have a serious discussion about this - as #4 gets at, that's been something that's actually been really hard to do in MLB fandom over the last few years.

[vinson24]

I 100% don’t care, in fact do it again. I’m glad the Astros are the most hated team in baseball now, took that away from the Yankees. Games are much more fun to go to afterwards and the team always plays with a chip on its shoulder.


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[wrswinney]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

Honest question to Astros fans.

Do you feel that the trash can hitting scandal will ever fade away, or do you believe that all fans of all teams will never let the Astros live it down?

The Astros beat my hometown Phillies in the World Series last year - they were the better team. They were several years, and many players different, from the trash can hitting scandal, but in my uneducated opinion most fans of other teams still brought the previous "scandal" up and hated on them. In my opinion, it seems that most MLB fans, wherever they are from and for whatever team they root for, have just put the Astros on the black list.

Not trolling, just want to hear real opinions from Astros fans.

We might meet again in this post-season, if we can get through the Braves and Dbacks/Dodgers series winner. No easy task!

Once the Astros dynasty is over and they are back to being just ok or losing it will fade. I as an Astros fan don't really care what the other fans think. You can't change someone's mind and people are more willing to argue about it on the internet than think about it being wide spread in the league. The Astros cheated better than others cheated and they won the WS. It pisses people off.

Originally Posted by tyrith

I'll give you a serious answer - and my answer is that no, I don't care, for a few different reasons.

1) It seems pretty clear that there were at least a couple of other teams exploring the same space. Being the best of those teams doesn't change the reality that other teams, by this definition, also cheated, and the world doesn't seem to care about that. That means it's about hating a winner versus hating the actual behavior, and I can't really respect that.

2) People use the word "cheating" as some catch all for a bunch of different forms of behavior. The electronic sign stealing, as such things go, seems pretty darn mild to me. Non-electronic sign stealing has long been part of baseball. Use of electronic tools in baseball, and other sports, has also been a thing - for instance, electronic review for instant replay challenges...but also things that are more clearly wrong, like reading the lips of opposing coaches play calls. The Astros didn't go bribing umpires, or providing false data, or anything like that. It was merely an extension of a variety of forms of existing behavior that, taken together, went too far.

3) The league has permitted significantly more distasteful forms of behavior and still celebrated those teams accomplishments. IMO, trading for Roberto Osuna, and the fact that he was tolerated in MLB, is dramatically worse than the trash can thing. One is trying to win a game; the other is someone that actually hurt people. Julio Urias was celebrated in a WS win after he was already suspended for DV, and what do you know, committed another one. There are a lot worse things than stealing signs.

4) The baseball fandom, at large, has been enormous jerks about the whole thing and is unwilling to discuss it rationally most of the time. For instance, I love houdini, but his continual instance on calling Altuve a cheater when there is a great deal of evidence he wanted nothing to do with it just comes off as rude, to put it politely. People being rude and jerks to you about something just hardens resistance. So the entire sports world being completely obnoxious about it has made me just want to rub victory in their faces.

There you go - a psychology about why, as a big Astros fan, I don't give a flip about trash cans. I'd love to actually have a serious discussion about this - as #4 gets at, that's been something that's actually been really hard to do in MLB fandom over the last few years.

Very well written and the entire Altuve thing is just dumb at this point. He wasn't a fan of it and should have said something is everyone go to but no one wants to talk about their favorite players that benefited from steroid users on their teams speaking up...it's just the same recycled garbage.

[Jolten Joe]

Originally Posted by jduds

Not an Astros fan, but I think it will be a thing until Altuve leaves or retires.

For me Altuve and Bregman are the last 2 ass clowns that need to be gone before I stop caring. Not sure who else is left over from that team that had a prominent role maybe Verlander.

The biggest issue most people have is there was no punishment and the players all got a stick up their butts when asked about it. Pete Rose was banned for supposedly gambling, Black Sox players all faced bans or suspensions, Same for anyone who has been caught taking Steroids but the Astros got off scott free. Cheating is cheating in my book there is no one level is worse than another.

[tyrith]

Originally Posted by Jolten Joe

For me Altuve and Bregman are the last 2 ass clowns that need to be gone before I stop caring. Not sure who else is left over from that team that had a prominent role maybe Verlander.

Stuff like this is why we can't have good conversations about these things. There's pretty much nothing that's come out in the entire process that's pointed to Altuve being involved or wanting to be involved. And yet people just level vicious insults at him because, I don't know, they want it to be the truth? And all it does is stir up vitriol.

[ensbergcollecto]

My only real issue is the ridiculous "moral superiority" taken by a large percentage of fans. As of 2020, no cheating matters except the astros. Everyone was fine with steroids because "everyone was doing it." Teams won championships with half their team on steroids but that's fine. No one really cares if a pitcher cheats from the mound because "everyone does it."

Yet, despite the yankees, red sox, and dodgers being accused of stealing signs electronically, and despite the fact that nearly a dozen players with no ties to the astros have publicly stated "everyone was doing it" fans of all other teams want to act like whatever level their team was stealing signs electronically was not a big deal. It was only the astros that crossed a line.


I say none of that as a defense. They did the wrong thing, there are consequences. But fans act like no one else has ever cheated. They cheer when astros players get hurt whether they were on the 2017 team or not. They hate altuve despite every piece of evidence proving he did not take part in the cheating. If fans want to boo or hate the astros, by all means, they have that right. But spare me the "my team cheated less than the astros so they didn't do anything wrong."

[panamamyers]

Originally Posted by ensbergcollecto

My only real issue is the ridiculous "moral superiority" taken by a large percentage of fans. As of 2020, no cheating matters except the astros. Everyone was fine with steroids because "everyone was doing it." Teams won championships with half their team on steroids but that's fine. No one really cares if a pitcher cheats from the mound because "everyone does it."

Yet, despite the yankees, red sox, and dodgers being accused of stealing signs electronically, and despite the fact that nearly a dozen players with no ties to the astros have publicly stated "everyone was doing it" fans of all other teams want to act like whatever level their team was stealing signs electronically was not a big deal. It was only the astros that crossed a line.


I say none of that as a defense. They did the wrong thing, there are consequences. But fans act like no one else has ever cheated. They cheer when astros players get hurt whether they were on the 2017 team or not. They hate altuve despite every piece of evidence proving he did not take part in the cheating. If fans want to boo or hate the astros, by all means, they have that right. But spare me the "my team cheated less than the astros so they didn't do anything wrong."

It's gaslighting. They know that everyone was doing it. They just hate the Astros.

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by panamamyers

It's gaslighting. They know that everyone was doing it. They just hate the Astros.

From the cocky, arrogant owner, to Taubman, to players you love to hate (and not just cuz their Astros, because they are unlikeable) half assed arrogant "apologies", spineless manager, Osuna issue, they are ez to hate.

And I won't even debate the top down cheating scheme with you all again as its pointless.

Good you guys won without cheating, but as poster boys for electronic sign stealing and ridiculous trash can banging , the stigma will apply for a long time, likely until Bregman/Altuve retire.

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[BdotHobbs]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

I appreciate the quote without reply - I'm asking Astros fans. You know your team cheated and were caught. Not in last years' World Series, you beat the Phillies fair and square. But in their previous World Series victory.

There may have been other teams who have cheated over the years, but none so obvious as the Astros.

I love my hometown teams, and I can't imagine what I would feel if part of their victories were because they cheated. So Astros' fans. Do you feel that all teams were doing it, and it was only your team that cheated, and later had player admit to it?

Do you not care, because the thrill of winning the World Series is a better than not winning?

I truly don’t care at all that they cheated. Other teams cheated and got caught and don’t get any flack at all for it from opposing fans. They are just mad at the Astros because they keep winning. I never thought I’d see the Astros win a World Series in my lifetime after they got swept in 2005. There’s literally nothing in the world that could make me feel negative about the 2017 World Series

[BdotHobbs]

Originally Posted by Jolten Joe

For me Altuve and Bregman are the last 2 ass clowns that need to be gone before I stop caring. Not sure who else is left over from that team that had a prominent role maybe Verlander.

The biggest issue most people have is there was no punishment and the players all got a stick up their butts when asked about it. Pete Rose was banned for supposedly gambling, Black Sox players all faced bans or suspensions, Same for anyone who has been caught taking Steroids but the Astros got off scott free. Cheating is cheating in my book there is no one level is worse than another.

So how do you feel about the Yankees stealing signs and getting caught?

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by BdotHobbs

I truly don’t care at all that they cheated. Other teams cheated and got caught and don’t get any flack at all for it from opposing fans. They are just mad at the Astros because they keep winning. I never thought I’d see the Astros win a World Series in my lifetime after they got swept in 2005. There’s literally nothing in the world that could make me feel negative about the 2017 World Series

And it's this attitude by a few Astros fans and the fact that the players got off scott free why so many other fan bases hate your team.

And since you asked Jolton Joe, yes, I hate the fact that the Yankees got busted for cheating and paid a fine. I hate Roger Clemens, Chuck Knoblauch, A-Fraud, and every other Yankees player that actively used steroids illegally to benefit their career. They all smeared the name of one of the oldest and greatest franchises in the history of baseball.

[jwilson6204]

It sucks that they cheated. They probably could have won without the cheating, but we'll never know, so now the '17 championship has a an *. I can see where fans are upset for all the reasons mentioned by Milkshake. The Astros take 98% of the brunt for all the cheating that was taking place at the time, but that how things work. Astros were the cover story. I think many of us Houston fans are frustrated with the treatment of Altuve. By most accounts, Altuve, Josh Reddick and Tony Kemp did not participate. Yet Altuve is the poster boy based on some bunk story about a buzzer. Altuve must be a greedy bastard for using a buzzer and not sharing it with the other players. His performance doesn't seem to have fallen off too steeply without his buzzer despite playing in his 30's. Hell, he batted .349 this year on the road when the cheating scandal involved home games. And that is why we don't care. If other fans will stick with the narrative that the Astros always cheat and Altuve is the cover boy, then we really don't care about your thoughts on the cheating scandal.

[panamamyers]

Originally Posted by jwilson6204

It sucks that they cheated. They probably could have won without the cheating, but we'll never know, so now the '17 championship has a an *. I can see where fans are upset for all the reasons mentioned by Milkshake. The Astros take 98% of the brunt for all the cheating that was taking place at the time, but that how things work. Astros were the cover story. I think many of us Houston fans are frustrated with the treatment of Altuve. By most accounts, Altuve, Josh Reddick and Tony Kemp did not participate. Yet Altuve is the poster boy based on some bunk story about a buzzer. Altuve must be a greedy bastard for using a buzzer and not sharing it with the other players. His performance doesn't seem to have fallen off too steeply without his buzzer despite playing in his 30's. Hell, he batted .349 this year on the road when the cheating scandal involved home games. And that is why we don't care. If other fans will stick with the narrative that the Astros always cheat and Altuve is the cover boy, then we really don't care about your thoughts on the cheating scandal.

We 100% know, because it's been confirmed they didn't do it in the playoffs.
They whooped that ass plain and simple.
They are one of the most dominant dynasties in baseball history

[tyrith]

Just not going to engage the trolls anymore, changed my mind.

[vinson24]

Game day boys!!!!!!!!!!! Enjoy these playoff games, let’s see the juice box get loud!!!!


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[dfenno]

Originally Posted by Jaysabz

Honest question to Astros fans.

Do you feel that the trash can hitting scandal will ever fade away, or do you believe that all fans of all teams will never let the Astros live it down?

The Astros beat my hometown Phillies in the World Series last year - they were the better team. They were several years, and many players different, from the trash can hitting scandal, but in my uneducated opinion most fans of other teams still brought the previous "scandal" up and hated on them. In my opinion, it seems that most MLB fans, wherever they are from and for whatever team they root for, have just put the Astros on the black list.

Not trolling, just want to hear real opinions from Astros fans.

We might meet again in this post-season, if we can get through the Braves and Dbacks/Dodgers series winner. No easy task!

Fade - yes. Fade away - no. I actually have a different take on this which is that with time, the over-the-top vitriol directed at Altuve will ultimately win him more respect and standing. I've come to believe the ongoing abuse directed at Altuve will help him get into the Hall of Fame.

They certainly deserve a black mark, an asterisk, or however else one wishes to qualify their 2017 WS win. But history will not judge them nearly as harshly as many opposing fans today. Especially as stories about what other teams have done are very likely to leak out over time.

[vinson24]

Game two today, let’s hope Framber deals today!!!!


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[Eckstein197]

We got a series folks. I really think this goes 5

[vinson24]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

We got a series folks. I really think this goes 5

Definitely could and probably will


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