[Rovell] NFLPA terminates relationship with Panini effective immediately

[tnvolfan16]

If I am to understand correctly the way rovell explained it on a podcast was that panini could still use retired players they have contracts with, so what you may see from panini is something akin to 2014-2015 upper deck where you have 100 cards of retired players iwith their team logos and college players they do deals with

[taylorjt2118]

Originally Posted by tnvolfan16

If I am to understand correctly the way rovell explained it on a podcast was that panini could still use retired players they have contracts with, so what you may see from panini is something akin to 2014-2015 upper deck where you have 100 cards of retired players iwith their team logos and college players they do deals with

Wouldn't mind products like this if they actually priced them accordingly.
"National Treasures Collegiate and Legends" $3,000 a box but you get a 1of1 Ryan Leaf Patch auto

[Grid]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

So higher or the same?

The same, or lower. Ive already posted all of the hands in the current cookie jar, that mark up wax as it makes its way to consumers. Fanatics selling direct, ends that. And allows them to control end pricing.

That is not to say they couldn't take current end cost, and use that to sell product. But they would be fools to raise the floor on consumers right out of the gate, and draw attention to themselves. Especially when they are being sued for unfair business practices right now.

Just remember, when collectors were paying $100 for a blaster box of 2020 Mosaic, that was $19.95 at retail. Panini didn't get that $100. Flippers/Dealers did. Panini got closer to $10.

Panini sold those blasters to MJ Holdings (or a company like that) who would then contract with Target, Walmart ETC to retail for them. And they would pay a vendor fee to sell there, or share revue with the store.

[yoyosh]

This Monopoly thing is going to be great!
https://twitter.com/CheapFunBreaks/s...25951925100990

[foleylion08]

Originally Posted by yoyosh

This Monopoly thing is going to be great!
https://twitter.com/CheapFunBreaks/s...25951925100990

Cue all the "What is this error card worth?!" posts for the next 20 years.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by yoyosh

This Monopoly thing is going to be great!
https://twitter.com/CheapFunBreaks/s...25951925100990

Oh noes!

I know Panini's monopoly never did that

Or that it never happened at any other point in history

Jokes aside, this has always happened, it will likely always happen. Looks like some niche player collectors just got some cool oddball opportunities!

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by jplarson

Oh noes!

I know Panini's monopoly never did that

Or that it never happened at any other point in history

Jokes aside, this has always happened, it will likely always happen. Looks like some niche player collectors just got some cool oddball opportunities!

Fanatics QC has been pretty bad since they’ve taken over Topps. It will continue to be bad when they produce NFL cards.

No different than Panini, which I think is the point many are trying to make.

[Fenway55]

Originally Posted by jplarson

Oh noes!

I know Panini's monopoly never did that

Or that it never happened at any other point in history

Jokes aside, this has always happened, it will likely always happen. Looks like some niche player collectors just got some cool oddball opportunities!

Agreed. You can buy an entire box of error cards, many of which are wrong/blank back, from the good ole' days of Pro Set.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11447019309...3ABFBMpvGu0cVi

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Fanatics QC has been pretty bad since they’ve taken over Topps. It will continue to be bad when they produce NFL cards.

No different than Panini, which I think is the point many are trying to make.

For sure. Some of the comments I've read throughout make it seem like Fanatics is inventing a monopoly when Panini had it previously (and Topps did back in the vintage days). And this monopoly wasn't created by Fanatics or Panini, it was by the NFL/NFLPA which seems to get a pass.

I look forward to my misprinted, miscut, or otherwise mangled Finest cards. Only adds to my oddball collection!

[wubh]

Originally Posted by tnvolfan16

If I am to understand correctly the way rovell explained it on a podcast was that panini could still use retired players they have contracts with, so what you may see from panini is something akin to 2014-2015 upper deck where you have 100 cards of retired players iwith their team logos and college players they do deals with

That's the case on the baseball side of things and I actually enjoy ripping ripping unlicensed Prizm/Donruss more than licensed Topps due to value.

This year, Panini also lost their MLBPA license so they weren't able to include any active players so their sets were retired players (logo airbrushed and signed to individual licensing deals) and minor leaguers (they still have that license and Panini would be able to sign NIL deals for fb products).

Because Panini knows that they don't have logos and now can't even feature current MLBers, the average collector looking to rip a blaster or hobby box is going to get a ton of value.

You'd be hard pressed to hit cards worth more than $50 in these boxes but you'll come away with dozens of shiny parallels, multiple #ed cards, and multiple autos/mems for $100-$150 hobby boxes.

2023 Donruss baseball (even without stars like Ohtani and Trout for the first time), released at around $100 and did so well that the price has about doubled.

In short, this will probably be bad for breakers, degens, and flippers but could be really good for some collectors (if you can get over airbrushed logos).

Say you're a Bears fan. All of the sudden, guys like Richard Dent will start to show up in sets, have autos, and 10+ card rainbows to chase. I have a bunch of former 49ers legends that I'd love to get some shiny modern cards of.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by jplarson

For sure. Some of the comments I've read throughout make it seem like Fanatics is inventing a monopoly when Panini had it previously (and Topps did back in the vintage days). And this monopoly wasn't created by Fanatics or Panini, it was by the NFL/NFLPA which seems to get a pass.

I look forward to my misprinted, miscut, or otherwise mangled Finest cards. Only adds to my oddball collection!

I’m not as optimistic about Fanatics cards, just because it’s been a lot of the same as Panini. Ballooning (and overly busy) parallels and print runs, poor QC, recycled and tired designs.

What I am concerned with is their desire to build a hobby monopoly. It is going to be different than Panini in many ways. I’m not sure if it will end up better or worse, but it will be different.

But I will be buying Flagship, Chrome and hopefully Sapphire products. So I guess I’m a sucker regardless.

[phil]

FWIW just got shipping notice on case of Prizm Draft FOTL

[rmw10]

Originally Posted by phil

FWIW just got shipping notice on case of Prizm Draft FOTL

Panini isn't stopping for now, nor should they. Would be shocked if there wasn't a clause that allows them to sell what's already been produced, regardless of the legal outcome. It's anything not currently in production that seems to be the question.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

I’m not as optimistic about Fanatics cards, just because it’s been a lot of the same as Panini. Ballooning (and overly busy) parallels and print runs, poor QC, recycled and tired designs.

What I am concerned with is their desire to build a hobby monopoly. It is going to be different than Panini in many ways. I’m not sure if it will end up better or worse, but it will be different.

That is a good point and a fair take to have. I may have some blinders on just for how excited I am for my favorite brand to be back but if they wind up looking like BUC did I probably will be annoyed. I'll wait until I have my first boxes/case of Finest to let my optimism fade or grow.

[oldgoldy97]

Dang, a bunch of wrong back base cards. How will we survive?

[abovethesink]

Originally Posted by tnvolfan16

If I am to understand correctly the way rovell explained it on a podcast was that panini could still use retired players they have contracts with, so what you may see from panini is something akin to 2014-2015 upper deck where you have 100 cards of retired players iwith their team logos and college players they do deals with

Couldn't they also sign individual deals with active players?

I know nothing of these deals, obviously, but I ask because Leaf has current players in some of their 2023 sets. As a Niners fan, I can remember that both Purdy and Deebo are in Leaf Metal this year as signers for example. Would it be different for Panini for some reason?

[rmw10]

Originally Posted by abovethesink

Couldn't they also sign individual deals with active players?

I know nothing of these deals, obviously, but I ask because Leaf has current players in some of their 2023 sets. As a Niners fan, I can remember that both Purdy and Deebo are in Leaf Metal this year as signers for example. Would it be different for Panini for some reason?

There's a clause in the contract they without the NFLPA license, they can't sell a product with more than 5 active NFLPA members in it. So they might have individual licenses, but would be limited to basically Panini Instant and stuff like that in lieu of actual products.

[rmw10]

Also heard a rumor that when Fanatics was originally working a deal with Panini before things got tense, it was for a buyout only. They didn't want the whole company, just to buyout the licenses and get in early.

[BayAreaChris]

Originally Posted by rmw10

Also heard a rumor that when Fanatics was originally working a deal with Panini before things got tense, it was for a buyout only. They didn't want the whole company, just to buyout the licenses and get in early.

They don’t really need them once they acquired Topps and the printers. The people probably are duplicative and then it’s just the brands that they can probably buy in a few years for almost nothing.

[rmw10]

Originally Posted by BayAreaChris

They don’t really need them once they acquired Topps and the printers. The people probably are duplicative and then it’s just the brands that they can probably buy in a few years for almost nothing.

Agreed. Know there have been discussions that they want the Panini IPs but seems like they may not have cared. If they get them sometime in the future, great. For now? They have what they need and don't need to spend any additional on it.

Seems like they really just don't want to be saddled with anything Panini other than the what it would cost to get the licensing rights.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by rmw10

Agreed. Know there have been discussions that they want the Panini IPs but seems like they may not have cared. If they get them sometime in the future, great. For now? They have what they need and don't need to spend any additional on it.

Seems like they really just don't want to be saddled with anything Panini other than the what it would cost to get the licensing rights.

They want the IPs still. If for nothing else, but to keep them out of the hands of anyone else. It would help them to not water down the Topps brands so much, as they still need to kick out 50 sets per year.

Take 25 strong Topps IPs and 25 strong Panini IPs. And you got yourself a great release calendar.

Plus, I cringe thinking about Leaf Prizim or Wild Card Contenders.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by Grid

They want the IPs still. If for nothing else, but to keep them out of the hands of anyone else. It would help them to not water down the Topps brands so much, as they still need to kick out 50 sets per year.

Take 25 strong Topps IPs and 25 strong Panini IPs. And you got yourself a great release calendar.

Plus, I cringe thinking about Leaf Prizim or Wild Card Contenders.

Super Breaks Optic has a great ring to it.

[BayAreaChris]

Originally Posted by Grid

They want the IPs still. If for nothing else, but to keep them out of the hands of anyone else. It would help them to not water down the Topps brands so much, as they still need to kick out 50 sets per year.

Take 25 strong Topps IPs and 25 strong Panini IPs. And you got yourself a great release calendar.

Plus, I cringe thinking about Leaf Prizim or Wild Card Contenders.

50 sets per year? That seems high.

How many sets per year does Topps do now for baseball and Panini for Basketball and Football?

[SearchPatrol]

Originally Posted by Grid

The same, or lower.

NOT TRUE. Why would they lower the price if they are selling out at current prices.
FANATICS want's to leave NO MEAT ON THE BONE. This isn't going to be like years of old. where you buy presales for $100 and at release the price becomes $200. They want the entire cookie jar.

Originally Posted by Grid

I've already posted all of the hands in the current cookie jar, that mark up wax as it makes its way to consumers. Fanatics selling direct, ends that. And allows them to control end pricing.

That is not to say they couldn't take current end cost, and use that to sell product. But they would be fools to raise the floor on consumers right out of the gate, and draw attention to themselves. Especially when they are being sued for unfair business practices right now.

So like a Walmart. Lower prices until competitors are knocked out, then BOOM. Jack up prices. But Fanatics just needs to wait a year until the coast is clear.

Originally Posted by Grid

Just remember, when collectors were paying $100 for a blaster box of 2020 Mosaic, that was $19.95 at retail. Panini didn't get that $100. Flippers/Dealers did. Panini got closer to $10.


Panini sold those blasters to MJ Holdings (or a company like that) who would then contract with Target, Walmart ETC to retail for them. And they would pay a vendor fee to sell there, or share revue with the store.

No different than TOPPS or any other card company years ago. Except they had Coin Builders that took a large portion of product.

[rmw10]

Originally Posted by Grid

They want the IPs still. If for nothing else, but to keep them out of the hands of anyone else. It would help them to not water down the Topps brands so much, as they still need to kick out 50 sets per year.

Take 25 strong Topps IPs and 25 strong Panini IPs. And you got yourself a great release calendar.

Plus, I cringe thinking about Leaf Prizim or Wild Card Contenders.

But do they actually want them? Again, I know what I said was nothing more than a rumor so I'm not trying to state anything as fact. But why would they care if someone else has the IPs? They have the licensing and the players in this case. Having an off brand Prizm or Contenders won't do a thing to them. Plus, Panini still has a need internally if they don't sell and keep rolling out Nascar, soccer, etc.