How does this happen? PSA 8 to BGS 9.5 to PSA 10 crossover?

oplum29 · 07-30-2023, 02:44 PM

was watching one of the card influencer vlogs, Justin Gamble Gamble, who has gone from 2K subscribers when i started watching, to 8K, plus his Discord. kid is working, and it's paying off (he's also got a lot of money and an impressive resume from before he started card vlogging, but still)

in one of the vlogs he shot at the National, he has another vlogger named "Hitman". assuming the story is completely true, which sounds like it, around the 4 minute mark, Hitman tells about how he purchased a Justin Herbert Contenders Opic Gold Vinyl rookie autograph PSA 8. (believe it's the card shown above).

he crossed it over to BGS, which got a 9.5

then, PSA was offering a service that would look at BGS 9.5 cards, and if it failed to cross to a PSA 10...then there was no charge. if it did, then there's a charge.

well...guess what? it crossed.

so, this dude, bought a PSA 8, crossed it to BGS which got a 9.5, then PSA regraded the 9.5 BGS which was originally a PSA 8, and now it's a PSA 10?

WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

here's the link to the video.

HOW does this happen? HOW???? you are talking about some serious hobby malpractice going on here, my goodness.

i know we've talked at length about this stuff, but goodness gracious.

i'm reading this book right now, Mint Condition (it's a really good book), and there's a story about this collector named Gidwitz, who used to own an original Honus Wagner T206 card (that was later co-owned by Wayne Gretzky, yes that Wagner, the PSA 8 that was later found to be trimmed). Gidwitz, lost his love for card collecting because as he said "it's not fun the way it used to be. Now it's all about money".

these grading companies, these influencers...idk, they have honestly made me lose a lot of my interest in the hobby. it's not gone, but i've just about given up on anything modern nowadays. pre-war, vintage, and modern-vintage is it for me.

i've been around long enough to have some knowledge about the hobby, but i just can't get over what is currently going on. from the trimming, to the reprinted cards sold as authentic, to grading companies doing what they are doing, it's just embarassing.

mc1 · 07-30-2023, 04:39 PM

I wouldnt be surprised if they simply wiped it down or doctored it. Its also possible it was initially graded harshly but Im sure something else was done to it.

KhalDrogo · 07-30-2023, 04:51 PM

There's no PSA 10 or 10/10 in the pop report. So let us know when it shows up.

FrmDaLeftCoast · 07-30-2023, 07:38 PM

I agree with mc1...If the card was sent with some sort of surface stain, a legit detail job on the surface would do the trick. Plus a BGS 9.5 is (at least to me) a PSA 10 (or better). Unfortunately PSA doesn't provide subgrades

TheFrenzy · 07-30-2023, 07:40 PM

Literally the first card PSA ever graded was a card they KNEW was trimmed, but they still graded it and slabbed it as authentic.

Turd-party grading has always been something of a scam.

oplum29 · 07-30-2023, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

There's no PSA 10 or 10/10 in the pop report. So let us know when it shows up.

the video was just released from the National, i think they got the crossover grade either on Saturday or today, not sure.

Astros19 · 07-30-2023, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Literally the first card PSA ever graded was a card they KNEW was trimmed, but they still graded it and slabbed it as authentic.

Turd-party grading has always been something of a scam.

Money and egos.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

KhalDrogo · 07-30-2023, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oplum29

the video was just released from the National, i think they got the crossover grade either on Saturday or today, not sure.

Like I said, let us know when it shows up.

majestik101 · 07-30-2023, 10:24 PM

I already like where this is headed. Popcorn will be popped.

mike1498 · 07-30-2023, 10:35 PM

Why anyone pays more for anything graded beats me.

I know its weird I like collecting famous people's autos and dirty laundry
But I draw the line at throwing money at randos ****ty opinions on cardboard

KhalDrogo · 07-31-2023, 06:17 AM

Still not in the pop report.

bedler · 07-31-2023, 08:11 AM

Psa is a cakewalk tbh.... Many BGS 9s with surface or centering issues are busted out and they get PSA 10s

It doesn't get looked at for psa imo

These idiots are prob getting them cleaned by pros.... Hurts this card going fwd tho imo now

I almost bought it raw actually .... Maybe it was just when psa was giving those #@#@#@#@ grades trying to act like they don't give away 10s

I sent this link to the original owner of the card

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

bedler · 07-31-2023, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Literally the first card PSA ever graded was a card they KNEW was trimmed, but they still graded it and slabbed it as authentic.

Turd-party grading has always been something of a scam.

According to the original owner of this card the guy he sold to said the corners were bad so.... It prob was trimmed then

Its worthless now imo

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

mfisher27 · 07-31-2023, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedler

According to the original owner of this card the guy he sold to said the corners were bad so.... It prob was trimmed then

Its worthless now imo

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

At least there's a pic of the original PSA grade in the OP so if/when it shows up as a 10, there's a clear picture to compare it to and check if it was trimmed.

TheFrenzy · 07-31-2023, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1498

But I draw the line at throwing money at randos ****ty opinions on cardboard

We have truly found our anti-Joobs.

I think the kid takes the crown sooner rather than later.

Dielon · 07-31-2023, 11:23 AM

As soon as he started talking, I turned off the video.

mc1 · 07-31-2023, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedler

According to the original owner of this card the guy he sold to said the corners were bad so.... It prob was trimmed then

Its worthless now imo

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

Those bottom corners look fairly bad.

https://www.psacard.com/cert/63581918

CarmenOhio · 07-31-2023, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oplum29

then, PSA was offering a service that would look at BGS 9.5 cards, and if it failed to cross to a PSA 10...then there was no charge. if it did, then there's a charge.

So PSA has a financial interest in regrading these cards and upping their grades? Perverse in idea alone, followed by perverse action. This should be a real stain on PSA, but it won't be and nothing will happen or change there as a result. I call shenanigans!

asujbl · 07-31-2023, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

We have truly found our anti-Joobs.

I think the kid takes the crown sooner rather than later.

Good one

njsportscardguy · 08-01-2023, 07:33 AM

I'll tell ya' how it likely happened; INCOMPETENCE, INEXPERIENCE, & UNQUALIFIED GRADERS! The most of which, probably weren't even involved with any aspect of this hobby....less than 5 or so years ago!

I had a (16) card order come back 3 weeks ago. All Ultra Modern,...all, 35-55pt cardstock. I went 13 for 16 on Gem rate. At 81.25%, well within my "normal experiences" when it comes to Ultra Modern subs @ PSA.

76541994
76541995
76541996
76541997
76541998
76541999
76542000
76542001
76542002
76542003
76542004
76542005
76542006
76542007
76542008
76542009

Yesterday, my grades pop on a (10) card Ultra Modern sub; NINE...PSA 9's, and a single, PSA 10...!??! REALLY...!!? You mean to tell me that my vision has degraded to the point that I'm (essentially) LEGALLY BLIND....over the course of the two weeks, between grading submissions!?! Unreasonable, unacceptable & inexplicable!?!

77132618
77132617
77132616
77132615
77132614
77132613
77132612 * - Only one that should've reasonably received a 9 - Back/Top/L corner - whitening
77132611
77132610
77132609

How can Nat & Co. continue to let this type of disparity, inconsistency, and...(quite frankly) IDIOCY...continue to happen?!!? To be fair, who's really at fault; us morons who continue to....cross our fingers & hope that the grader who grades our cards aren't blind in one eye and can't see outta' the other, OR...Nat Turner/CU/PSA for having people on their staff that are INCOMPETENT!?! I have 47 cards still out, between 2 subs with the....."INDUSTRY LEADER"....in sportscard grading & authentication! If the results are even REMOTELY close to what they were on this one, needless to say; I can EASILY stand to lose my money, elsewhere!

DaBears1985 · 08-01-2023, 11:49 AM

I stopped doing business with the graders years ago. It’s all about money. Condition of the cards is an afterthought

sethc1020 · 08-01-2023, 12:38 PM

Thats a joke if actually true but to be totally honest in the grand scheme of things with a 1/1 does the grade really matter at all barring there's no substantial damage? On a 1/1 card like that is there any real value added between it being an 8, 9.5 or 10? Its a 1/1 so no matter what the grade you can't get another one with a better grade because there aren't any others.

Grid · 08-01-2023, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njsportscardguy

I'll tell ya' how it likely happened; INCOMPETENCE, INEXPERIENCE, & UNQUALIFIED GRADERS! The most of which, probably weren't even involved with any aspect of this hobby....less than 5 or so years ago!

I had a (16) card order come back 3 weeks ago. All Ultra Modern,...all, 35-55pt cardstock. I went 13 for 16 on Gem rate. At 81.25%, well within my "normal experiences" when it comes to Ultra Modern subs @ PSA.

76541994
76541995
76541996
76541997
76541998
76541999
76542000
76542001
76542002
76542003
76542004
76542005
76542006
76542007
76542008
76542009

Yesterday, my grades pop on a (10) card Ultra Modern sub; NINE...PSA 9's, and a single, PSA 10...!??! REALLY...!!? You mean to tell me that my vision has degraded to the point that I'm (essentially) LEGALLY BLIND....over the course of the two weeks, between grading submissions!?! Unreasonable, unacceptable & inexplicable!?!

77132618
77132617
77132616
77132615
77132614
77132613
77132612 * - Only one that should've reasonably received a 9 - Back/Top/L corner - whitening
77132611
77132610
77132609

How can Nat & Co. continue to let this type of disparity, inconsistency, and...(quite frankly) IDIOCY...continue to happen?!!? To be fair, who's really at fault; us morons who continue to....cross our fingers & hope that the grader who grades our cards aren't blind in one eye and can't see outta' the other, OR...Nat Turner/CU/PSA for having people on their staff that are INCOMPETENT!?! I have 47 cards still out, between 2 subs with the....."INDUSTRY LEADER"....in sportscard grading & authentication! If the results are even REMOTELY close to what they were on this one, needless to say; I can EASILY stand to lose my money, elsewhere!

MiamiMarlinsFan · 08-01-2023, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grid

I’m looking forward to him sending in some Jerry Rice RCs that he’s positive are a PSA 11.

jimmyjam1973 · 08-01-2023, 02:07 PM

And people look at me cross-eye when I say I don't grade or want graded cards. I get why people grade, but WAAAAAAY too subjective. I say 10, you say 9, someone else says 8. Until PSA or BGS starts to grade with computer AI, this is the risk you take.

07-30-2023, 02:44 PM	#1
oplum29 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 10,405	How does this happen? PSA 8 to BGS 9.5 to PSA 10 crossover? was watching one of the card influencer vlogs, Justin Gamble Gamble, who has gone from 2K subscribers when i started watching, to 8K, plus his Discord. kid is working, and it's paying off (he's also got a lot of money and an impressive resume from before he started card vlogging, but still) in one of the vlogs he shot at the National, he has another vlogger named "Hitman". assuming the story is completely true, which sounds like it, around the 4 minute mark, Hitman tells about how he purchased a Justin Herbert Contenders Opic Gold Vinyl rookie autograph PSA 8. (believe it's the card shown above). he crossed it over to BGS, which got a 9.5 then, PSA was offering a service that would look at BGS 9.5 cards, and if it failed to cross to a PSA 10...then there was no charge. if it did, then there's a charge. well...guess what? it crossed. so, this dude, bought a PSA 8, crossed it to BGS which got a 9.5, then PSA regraded the 9.5 BGS which was originally a PSA 8, and now it's a PSA 10? WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! here's the link to the video. HOW does this happen? HOW???? you are talking about some serious hobby malpractice going on here, my goodness. i know we've talked at length about this stuff, but goodness gracious. i'm reading this book right now, Mint Condition (it's a really good book), and there's a story about this collector named Gidwitz, who used to own an original Honus Wagner T206 card (that was later co-owned by Wayne Gretzky, yes that Wagner, the PSA 8 that was later found to be trimmed). Gidwitz, lost his love for card collecting because as he said "it's not fun the way it used to be. Now it's all about money". these grading companies, these influencers...idk, they have honestly made me lose a lot of my interest in the hobby. it's not gone, but i've just about given up on anything modern nowadays. pre-war, vintage, and modern-vintage is it for me. i've been around long enough to have some knowledge about the hobby, but i just can't get over what is currently going on. from the trimming, to the reprinted cards sold as authentic, to grading companies doing what they are doing, it's just embarassing. __________________ "got em, got em, need em, got em, got em, need em, got em" - Little Monsters Last edited by oplum29; 07-30-2023 at 02:47 PM.

07-30-2023, 04:39 PM	#2
mc1 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 11,208	I wouldnt be surprised if they simply wiped it down or doctored it. Its also possible it was initially graded harshly but Im sure something else was done to it. __________________ B.I.D.

07-30-2023, 04:51 PM	#3
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,263	There's no PSA 10 or 10/10 in the pop report. So let us know when it shows up. __________________ I love PSA!

07-30-2023, 10:24 PM	#9
majestik101 Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Socially Distanced Posts: 43,807 majestik101	I already like where this is headed. Popcorn will be popped. __________________ NYC 1653-2025 "Watson alone sells for over $20" https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1182760

07-30-2023, 10:35 PM	#10
mike1498 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Baltimore Posts: 7,448 college_beer_money	Why anyone pays more for anything graded beats me. I know its weird I like collecting famous people's autos and dirty laundry But I draw the line at throwing money at randos ****ty opinions on cardboard __________________ Check out my cards! https://www.instagram.com/college_beer_money/

07-30-2023, 07:38 PM	#4
FrmDaLeftCoast Banned - PBM Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 94	I agree with mc1...If the card was sent with some sort of surface stain, a legit detail job on the surface would do the trick. Plus a BGS 9.5 is (at least to me) a PSA 10 (or better). Unfortunately PSA doesn't provide subgrades

07-30-2023, 07:40 PM	#5
TheFrenzy Banned Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Texan in AZ Posts: 44,115	Literally the first card PSA ever graded was a card they KNEW was trimmed, but they still graded it and slabbed it as authentic. Turd-party grading has always been something of a scam.

07-31-2023, 06:17 AM	#11
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,263	Still not in the pop report. __________________ I love PSA!

07-31-2023, 08:11 AM	#12
bedler Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Little Rock AR Posts: 3,457	Psa is a cakewalk tbh.... Many BGS 9s with surface or centering issues are busted out and they get PSA 10s It doesn't get looked at for psa imo These idiots are prob getting them cleaned by pros.... Hurts this card going fwd tho imo now I almost bought it raw actually .... Maybe it was just when psa was giving those #@#@#@#@ grades trying to act like they don't give away 10s I sent this link to the original owner of the card Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk __________________ PC Deshaun Watson, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Star QB Dual/Triple/Quad Autos *WHODAT & GEAUX TIGERS*[/U][/B] http://s57.photobucket.com/user/bedler/library/Football%20Cards#/user/bedler/library/Football%20Cards?sort=4&page=0&_suid=1400095328823010335314728151062

07-31-2023, 11:23 AM	#16
Dielon Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,163 dielonthug	As soon as he started talking, I turned off the video. __________________ Looking for all CHAD GREENWAY that I currently don't have! https://sportscardalbum.com/u/Dielonthug

08-01-2023, 07:33 AM	#20
njsportscardguy Member Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 826	I'll tell ya' how it likely happened; INCOMPETENCE, INEXPERIENCE, & UNQUALIFIED GRADERS! The most of which, probably weren't even involved with any aspect of this hobby....less than 5 or so years ago! I had a (16) card order come back 3 weeks ago. All Ultra Modern,...all, 35-55pt cardstock. I went 13 for 16 on Gem rate. At 81.25%, well within my "normal experiences" when it comes to Ultra Modern subs @ PSA. 76541994 76541995 76541996 76541997 76541998 76541999 76542000 76542001 76542002 76542003 76542004 76542005 76542006 76542007 76542008 76542009 Yesterday, my grades pop on a (10) card Ultra Modern sub; *NINE...PSA 9's, and a single, PSA 10...!??! REALLY...!!? You mean to tell me that my vision has degraded to the point that I'm (essentially) LEGALLY BLIND....over the course of the two weeks, between grading submissions!?! Unreasonable, unacceptable & inexplicable!?! 77132618 77132617 77132616 77132615 77132614 77132613 77132612 - Only one that should've reasonably received a 9 - Back/Top/L corner - whitening 77132611 77132610 77132609 How can Nat & Co. continue to let this type of disparity, inconsistency, and...(quite frankly) *IDIOCY...continue to happen?!!? To be fair, who's really at fault; us morons who continue to....cross our fingers & hope that the grader who grades our cards aren't blind in one eye and can't see outta' the other, OR...Nat Turner/CU/PSA for having people on their staff that are INCOMPETENT*!?! I have 47 cards still out, between 2 subs with the....."INDUSTRY LEADER"....in sportscard grading & authentication! If the results are even REMOTELY close to what they were on this one, needless to say; I can EASILY stand to lose my money, elsewhere!

08-01-2023, 11:49 AM	#21
DaBears1985 Banned Join Date: Jan 2023 Posts: 465	I stopped doing business with the graders years ago. It’s all about money. Condition of the cards is an afterthought

08-01-2023, 12:38 PM	#22
sethc1020 Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,641 sethc_1020	Thats a joke if actually true but to be totally honest in the grand scheme of things with a 1/1 does the grade really matter at all barring there's no substantial damage? On a 1/1 card like that is there any real value added between it being an 8, 9.5 or 10? Its a 1/1 so no matter what the grade you can't get another one with a better grade because there aren't any others. __________________ https://www.flickr.com/gp/151086784@N06/28H47r

08-01-2023, 02:07 PM	#25
jimmyjam1973 Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Schertz, TX Posts: 6,586 jimmyjam1973	And people look at me cross-eye when I say I don't grade or want graded cards. I get why people grade, but WAAAAAAY too subjective. I say 10, you say 9, someone else says 8. Until PSA or BGS starts to grade with computer AI, this is the risk you take.